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Well, with PTS shutting down, the gearing of doom is UPON US.....

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Well, with PTS shutting down, the gearing of doom is UPON US.....

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
10.11.2019 , 07:32 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
I didn't say you had to like the carrot. As I made pretty clear in my post -- I'm not fond of that carrot either.

Dasty
You are right... BW seems rather intent on the carrot - stick model of gaming. If I've hung around this game for what, 6 or 7 years I obviously don't need that carrot to keep playing, Musco.

Play your way is appearing to be a practical joke

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
10.11.2019 , 08:19 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I mean, I understand it; I just don't like it.
Trust me, I am in the same boat.

However, one thing I can safely put to bed is the whole "RNG" sentiment.

Yes, there is some mild RNG, but frankly, with the way the fleet vendor is combined with the fact that you don't need to be absolutely min-maxed to run most content, it all works well enough and you definitely feel the trend of gear carrying you ever upward - you aren't really ever left feeling like "oh crap, I really need gear piece xyz so I can move on to harder content, but the game isn't giving it to me!" To me, that's what bad RNG is like.

Rather, its the overall design itself that feels rough. The whole thing feels well...overdesigned. Complexity for its own sake. Artificial rather than a natural extension of the game.

That said, there's enough good here that it can be streamlined and made really good, even with all the tiers of gear, if the devs want to.

The question is, will they want to? It won't be in time for Onslaught, and the developers notoriously go into hibernation after the fall expansions until about March of the following year, so it'll be a while before we know for sure one way or the other.

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
10.11.2019 , 08:23 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
I probably shouldn't bump this so soon, but this is EXTREMELY good advice.

Now my view...

Vertical gearing, by which I mean getting to Ilvl 306, will actually be quite easy (particularly if you follow Phal's advice). Moreover, if you go through the annoying process of transferring gear to alts while they level, it means they will get to Ilvl 306 very, very quickly too. In that sense, gearing alts up to an acceptable level seems to be quite easy. Personally, I find it annoying that I have to transfer gear just for Ilvl to other characters, but I'll deal with it since it will be a relatively short process.

Of course, the operative term is "acceptable level." It seems quite clear based on the feedback from Eric (or lack thereof about the mod vendor being RNG)...

It's all about horizontal gearing now. That's the long-term carrot on the stick they are using to get us to keep playing.

Personally, I would prefer a system of RNG protection where they allow us to purchase the specific item we want, albeit at a much higher cost. This is what they had in 5.6, which to me was the pinnacle of gearing systems not just for this MMORPG, but any. They have settled the issue for Set Items and Tacticals, and I'm fine with the RNG for left side items since they are legacy bound. On Amps, I'm with Kendra -- either they matter or they don't -- and I agree with Zion about the cost cap.

Obviously, that leaves Mods, which leads me to...

Math dictates that some people will lose out on their 20th roll trying to get the Mod they want. It baffles me why BW doesn't want to afford them some type of protection.

Dasty

To address this, you can target a specific slot now with the vendor. No guarantees it will be exactly what you want or best in slot, but I've found whatever they give you, it will be good enough to get you to the next tier of gear, and it won't be a hindrance at all to whatever content you want to run, barring NiM Ops.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
10.11.2019 , 09:06 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
To address this, you can target a specific slot now with the vendor. No guarantees it will be exactly what you want or best in slot, but I've found whatever they give you, it will be good enough to get you to the next tier of gear, and it won't be a hindrance at all to whatever content you want to run, barring NiM Ops.
Agreed with one addendum: you can also get the same piece twice !
IMO.. three strikes and your out ! Move on to another piece. (other wise it can get to be too expensive)

For whatever it's worth if it were not for that one factor I could live with the rest. It would still not be the best system (to me at least) but I could live with it !
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DzastinBiberi's Avatar


DzastinBiberi
10.11.2019 , 09:21 PM | #15
Drops for crates are far from good (Renown Crates). I was in full 306 gear and I was getting mods etc 302, 304 rating.
How's the system working if it gives me gear that has lower rating than what I currently own? Makes no sense.

Drops seems to be fixed now, 'cause in previous phase, my MM sniper was getting tank mods.

Getting set bonus pieces will be a nightmare, currently priced gear pieces are 3k per one and they dont have any mods, armorings etc in it, just empty shells.

Keep in mind that Takena (vendor which sells mods) are selling you RNG mods, you dont know the stats, you dont know anything before you buy it, when you do, its gonna give u some random mod with random stats.

Good luck getting 3,4,5,6 exact same mods. So, whoever thinks of min/maxing properly, see you in a few years, 'cause thats probably how long will it take to get the exact stats on all mods. There's just too many diferent types of mods and too much RNG.

One day, you wake up and "oh wow, my gear is pretty good now!"

Yes and then I'll realise that 20 years have passed and I'll be like "dafaq was I grinding for?"

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
10.11.2019 , 09:35 PM | #16
I am just hoping that the influencers will get those 'gearing for dummies' guides up quickly because with all these mods and gear sets I haven't the slightest idea what my characters need. I'm still sticking with my plan of not playing my 70s much to try to avoid getting them to 75 so they won't be forced into this.

Darev's Avatar


Darev
10.11.2019 , 10:00 PM | #17
I think OP has a pretty good grasp on the gearing system they are giving us.

Do content while you slowly work your way up through 18 different "levels" (or gear ratings) of gear drops and vendor purchases until you get to an average of 302 - 304. Then you can start playing the vendor slot machine (because it's still heavy RNG for these specific purchases) for the 306 armorings / mods / enhancements / barrels / hilts to fill in the 3000 fragment / 1 million credit (per piece) endgame set bonus armor sets...after at some point either buying or looting the tactical you want.

The one positive from that system is that even if you get 20 "incorrect" mods/enhancements/whatever from the slot machine vendor, you have alts that can probably use those too, right? So you may not be able to get your sniper up FIRST...but you'll have pieces of gear for ALL of your toons.

Don't get me wrong, gearing in PTS phase 3 was TONS better than gearing in PTS phase 1. They listened to the player base and tweaked a really bad system to make it less bad.

I'm going to miss being able to buy random pieces from the GTN. I suspect many people take that for granted and don't realize yet that it's going away. (You can't sell legacy bound gear and all new gear drops, and crafted items, are legacy bound)

And amplifiers...don't even get me started on amplifiers. It's not like I warned people about that two months ago or anything.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=966989
If you choose to fight in the sewer you can no longer claim to have the moral high ground.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
10.11.2019 , 10:19 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Darev View Post
I think OP has a pretty good grasp on the gearing system they are giving us.

Do content while you slowly work your way up through 18 different "levels" (or gear ratings) of gear drops and vendor purchases until you get to an average of 302 - 304. Then you can start playing the vendor slot machine (because it's still heavy RNG for these specific purchases) for the 306 armorings / mods / enhancements / barrels / hilts to fill in the 3000 fragment / 1 million credit (per piece) endgame set bonus armor sets...after at some point either buying or looting the tactical you want.

The one positive from that system is that even if you get 20 "incorrect" mods/enhancements/whatever from the slot machine vendor, you have alts that can probably use those too, right? So you may not be able to get your sniper up FIRST...but you'll have pieces of gear for ALL of your toons.

Don't get me wrong, gearing in PTS phase 3 was TONS better than gearing in PTS phase 1. They listened to the player base and tweaked a really bad system to make it less bad.

I'm going to miss being able to buy random pieces from the GTN. I suspect many people take that for granted and don't realize yet that it's going away. (You can't sell legacy bound gear and all new gear drops, and crafted items, are legacy bound)

And amplifiers...don't even get me started on amplifiers. It's not like I warned people about that two months ago or anything.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=966989
Several of us tried you pretty much took point on providing information that was detailed enough to make sense of the matter. Others did well too.

You did as much as anyone could ask.

Now we wait !
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ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
10.11.2019 , 10:37 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by DzastinBiberi View Post
Drops for crates are far from good (Renown Crates). I was in full 306 gear and I was getting mods etc 302, 304 rating.
How's the system working if it gives me gear that has lower rating than what I currently own? Makes no sense.

Drops seems to be fixed now, 'cause in previous phase, my MM sniper was getting tank mods.

Getting set bonus pieces will be a nightmare, currently priced gear pieces are 3k per one and they dont have any mods, armorings etc in it, just empty shells.

Keep in mind that Takena (vendor which sells mods) are selling you RNG mods, you dont know the stats, you dont know anything before you buy it, when you do, its gonna give u some random mod with random stats.

Good luck getting 3,4,5,6 exact same mods. So, whoever thinks of min/maxing properly, see you in a few years, 'cause thats probably how long will it take to get the exact stats on all mods. There's just too many diferent types of mods and too much RNG.

One day, you wake up and "oh wow, my gear is pretty good now!"

Yes and then I'll realise that 20 years have passed and I'll be like "dafaq was I grinding for?"
So, renown are now like a bonus. Don't expect it to be a major source of gear - the devs said that going into this.

The vendor IS random, BUT it will always offer you at least an upgrade now - may not be precisely the one you want, but like I said before, its pointless to try to min-max before endgame, and the vendor items will get you to the next tier.

The people who hold that every drop ever should be a substantial upgrade to what they already have are going to be disappointed. As I said, this is going to be a journey, not a quick destination.

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
10.11.2019 , 10:40 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Darev View Post
I think OP has a pretty good grasp on the gearing system they are giving us.

Do content while you slowly work your way up through 18 different "levels" (or gear ratings) of gear drops and vendor purchases until you get to an average of 302 - 304. Then you can start playing the vendor slot machine (because it's still heavy RNG for these specific purchases) for the 306 armorings / mods / enhancements / barrels / hilts to fill in the 3000 fragment / 1 million credit (per piece) endgame set bonus armor sets...after at some point either buying or looting the tactical you want.

The one positive from that system is that even if you get 20 "incorrect" mods/enhancements/whatever from the slot machine vendor, you have alts that can probably use those too, right? So you may not be able to get your sniper up FIRST...but you'll have pieces of gear for ALL of your toons.

Don't get me wrong, gearing in PTS phase 3 was TONS better than gearing in PTS phase 1. They listened to the player base and tweaked a really bad system to make it less bad.

I'm going to miss being able to buy random pieces from the GTN. I suspect many people take that for granted and don't realize yet that it's going away. (You can't sell legacy bound gear and all new gear drops, and crafted items, are legacy bound)

And amplifiers...don't even get me started on amplifiers. It's not like I warned people about that two months ago or anything.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=966989
Amplifiers would actually be a fun great system at any point, IF ONLY THEY PUT A CREDIT CAP ON HOW EXPENSIVE IT CAN GET.

I got a chance to test them a lot in phase 2 playing with the PTS funny money, but I also quickly realized just how horribly expensive it is to get what you want in each slot, else have to wait for the resets each week.
The devs made it intentionally this way, but the real question is why - when slapping say a 50k credit cap limit on it would make the whole thing more useful and fun at any level.