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Is change of difficulty confirmed?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Is change of difficulty confirmed?

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
10.10.2019 , 02:02 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
It will be, though. Saying vanilla "needs improving" is very subjective. Based on what people are saying about companions, much lower player HPs on planets like Makeb and experiences in heroics, it will probably be too frustrating and difficult for some players to want to continue.

A toggle so people could set their own mission difficulty would have been better but instead they're just going to up everything. I guess those who complained endlessly about difficulty got their way. Congrats. Shame it's at the expense of other players.
That's exactly what happened when everything was nerfed to the ground and made easy as it is now. " Those who complained endlessly about difficulty got their way" - yep. At the expense of players who want more challenge and can actually press more than 10 buttons a minute. So back then such changes were ok to you, but now - shame on them? Pretty clear you are heavily biased here.

SerraShar's Avatar


SerraShar
10.10.2019 , 02:17 AM | #22
The game back in the day, was never really difficult to begin with . But the nerf since the level sync happen, made it a joke .

Does that mean, they gonna add cc to the expansions that suffered from 'Plot Armor' disability ?

You know...the 'success' kotfe and Kotet.....will it have some cc ? cose that would be nice .
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IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
10.10.2019 , 03:13 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Equeliber View Post
That's exactly what happened when everything was nerfed to the ground and made easy as it is now. " Those who complained endlessly about difficulty got their way" - yep. At the expense of players who want more challenge and can actually press more than 10 buttons a minute. So back then such changes were ok to you, but now - shame on them? Pretty clear you are heavily biased here.
And you're not biased? I wasn't playing way back then, so I don't have an opinion on it or any frame of reference as to how hard or easy it was.

It's far easier for you as a player who wants harder content in vanilla to nerf yourself - take off your gear, put your companion on passive and don't up their influence too much, use a White Acute module to stay level - than it is for a player who wants easier content to contend with something too hard. But that would require you to take responsibility for your own game instead of expecting every single player to want to tackle difficult and long fights when they're just trying to enjoy the story.

It doesn't matter, though, does it? You all got your way. The argument's won. Yay for you. Bioware's made it clear that all they want is raiders, and the hell with everyone else. Hope you "serious gamerz" are enough to keep the lights on.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
10.10.2019 , 03:29 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by jstankaroslo View Post
It is always at the expense of other players. The easy vanilla for the last few years since 4.0 was at the expense of players like me, which ultimately drove me away from the game. No group of players will ever be perfectly happy, the key is to leverage different game aspects so they are passable to some people without driving away others groups of players.
In my subjective point of view the vanilla game became to easy. Will they make it to the level I think is perfect? Probably no, passable and still enjoyable -hopefully yes.
If you guys were advocating for a toggle or level selection for yourselves, the way they have a toggle with KOTFE and KOTET, I'd have no issue. But forcing everyone else to "enjoy" your harder playstyle in class story content WILL drive players away. Not everyone is here for an operations-style battle when they just want to enjoy the story. Not everyone cares about learning endgame content because not everyone LIKES or wants to do that group content.

If you want harder content in the game, you can nerf your own character (remove gear, companions on passive, etc.). You can play Ops, or flashpoints in NiM, or the many other hard things that SWTOR offers. Why do you also need to force that difficulty into the story content?

As for the heroics, it's one of the only viable ways for solo/story players to level up. The minute they require grouping or heavy duty combat, they cease to be viable.

Hey, though, as I said above, it's all moot now, isn't it? You guys won. You'll get your harder game, and the rest of us will get driven off. Enjoy.

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
10.10.2019 , 03:35 AM | #25
Please count into everything that we have much more tools to use these days, like Legacy Unity (or how it is called), Legacy buffs (if all companion stories were played through) and Heroic Moments.

All this stuff was not there years ago, and thus everything felt harder and more of a challence.

These Legacy buffs, for example, everyone forgets about them easily, because they are not openly presented to the player. You can read about them only in the Legacy window.

When I created years ago a new character on a different server with no Legacy etc. at all, it definitively felt so much harder, and my char died much more often because oif that.

Legacy buffing is to me a bit like the "Matthew Effect", like with "those who have will be given even more". The more your legacy advances, the more legacy buffs you receive.
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Khaleijo's Avatar


Khaleijo
10.10.2019 , 04:58 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
If you guys were advocating for a toggle or level selection for yourselves, the way they have a toggle with KOTFE and KOTET, I'd have no issue. But forcing everyone else to "enjoy" your harder playstyle in class story content WILL drive players away. Not everyone is here for an operations-style battle when they just want to enjoy the story. Not everyone cares about learning endgame content because not everyone LIKES or wants to do that group content.

If you want harder content in the game, you can nerf your own character (remove gear, companions on passive, etc.). You can play Ops, or flashpoints in NiM, or the many other hard things that SWTOR offers. Why do you also need to force that difficulty into the story content?

As for the heroics, it's one of the only viable ways for solo/story players to level up. The minute they require grouping or heavy duty combat, they cease to be viable.

The bottom line is that when the game becomes too hard to be fun, I think a lot of us will stop playing and leave. Right now there's really no reason I want to subscribe for 6.0 and this is certainly a factor.
The smoothest way to toggle the difficulty to your own preference actually was there before level sync. The quests being too hard? Simply over level them until you can beat them (with more than five levels difference the NPCs started to often miss you with their abilities). Not enough of a challenge? Stay under level for the content and get hit harder and miss now and then. Then of course the fine tuning with taking off gear of yourself and the companion and such, passive companion etc. The effectiveness of the companions was decided on the presence value you had, you could increase that with gear or buffs or avoid it almost completely to influence their effectiveness to your liking, now story companions do get influence no matter what you do. With the different stances, the different companions being better or worse as dps, tank or heal you had it in your hand. (Liked to run with tank companions in dps stance for example for having a little help but not too much)
In short there were way more possibilities to influence your own difficulty than now.

Even back then when you had to do a mix of planetary quests, FPs or PVP to gain enough experience, you had to be careful to not do too much outside of the class story to stay under level. And I for example did really like to do the planetary chains too and the occasional FP.
As it is now its pretty much impossible to stay under level like that and playing the content I like and even wearing empty cartel market shells or so does not shut off the level sync bolster.

I get that people do like some things to be easy, but shouldn't there be at least a tiny bit of threat to die if you mess up, should there really no need at all to use a defensive ability now and then, interrupts or stuns, crowd control? To think for a moment before attacking a trash group, to maybe make out which enemy is the most dangerous and focus that instead of just hit the aoe button again and again.
Is it really fun for anyone to go taking care of the washing machine while the (healing) companion just keeps going on alone and when you are back the trash is either dead or they still happily hit your companion and it heals and heals and heals itself up against it?
Yes, I actually tried that if that really works, granted it does not everywhere but often enough, in my opinion my toon should die if I'm leaving it alone like that.

Not everyone is interested to head into the more difficult content or group stuff, once done with the story and solo parts, okay, nothing wrong with that. But there are also those that are, and frankly those players hit a huge wall in the current balance on live server. Where some use of defensive stuff, interrupts, focus on the right target at the right time slowly used to come into play within the leveling experience, it's now more or less care about next to nothing and then you are suddenly expected to know about all of that from one moment to the next.
Vet FPs and SM ops had so many mechanics taken out or made completely pointless as they can just be ignored currently, that people don't learn how to deal with them in an easy more forgiving setting. The class story chapter bosses used to be some sort of a corner stone, for playing somewhat tactical, paying attention to the enemies abilities and learn what could be done to counter them with the new abilities you just got from your class trainer. Worst example is the already mentioned Baras, all these fights simply don't last long enough these days to get to the point where they even use the formerly challenging abilities.

Part of the problem with the difficulty is, as it is, players don't know/learn how to deal with mechanic when they are confronted with them out of the blue. That includes the more difficult KOTFE/ET mentioned here, it is also 'difficult' because it is surprising to need to do this or that all of a sudden to succeed.
For a new player, there is no "mhmm let's try this, that worked on evil guy XY or maybe that new shiny ability or lets look what else do I have in my arsenal", cause during the current easy vanilla content there often is just "simply hitting this attack button over and over, my companion does the rest". Yes, rotation would be faster, more effective and what ever, but the people I saw using nothing but sweeping fire, nothing but force storm... they get to max level with that, without the game signalling them to maybe overthink that tactic, since it just works.

I really don't understand how that can be considered healthy for the game in the long run and appreciate that the difficulty slightly increases again.
As i side note, I played VET Foundry on PTS this weekend and while HK might be slightly over-tuned, since I'm of the opinion a decent healer should be able to heal a decent group without needing the kolto stations, it reminded me of the old days of going in there with a trinity group of players on the lower scale of the intended level of that FP, you had to be careful. And I really liked to see Revan actually doing his full scale of abilities again and not dying before he was even half through his 'rotation'.
On that part if you are afraid, it's going to be scaled too difficult in the end, use the PTS to give feedback.
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jstankaroslo's Avatar


jstankaroslo
10.10.2019 , 05:05 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
If you guys were advocating for a toggle or level selection for yourselves, the way they have a toggle with KOTFE and KOTET, I'd have no issue.
Search the forums before you start accusing "us guys", as I'm sure I either made a thread proposing difficulty toggle for ALL content, or proposed it in some of my posts.

Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
But forcing everyone else to "enjoy" your harder playstyle in class story content WILL drive players away. Not everyone is here for an operations-style battle when they just want to enjoy the story. Not everyone cares about learning endgame content because not everyone LIKES or wants to do that group content.
You could also read my OP, as I stated clearly I'm not an endgamer. Also exaggerating isn't going to help here, and I think you are well aware that 2 levels down on sync and slightly weaker healing does not compare even closely to "operations style battles".

Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
If you want harder content in the game, you can nerf your own character (remove gear, companions on passive, etc.). You can play Ops, or flashpoints in NiM, or the many other hard things that SWTOR offers. Why do you also need to force that difficulty into the story content?
I read this argument back in the day when I tried to advocate against nerfed content. This idea is very much against rpg playing, as getting better stuff, managing companions and using all abilities is a large part of any rpg game.

IF the vanilla content really gets harder with 6.0, then I'd recommend some simple solutions to leveling problems, that you could encounter (if that will really be the case, and I seriously doubt it will be that hard).
Gather materials and use your alts to craft blue or purple gear for your struggling character, and I'm sure you'll go further through any vanilla story. In every rpg game you need better armors/swords to beat harder enemies, that is also in line with the story -as we get more and more powerful with each chapter.

IDK about balancing in KOTFE/KOTET as they are pretty far on my list of things to do in game, but they were much harder than vanilla anyway and somehow people were able to get past them.

Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
As for the heroics, it's one of the only viable ways for solo/story players to level up. The minute they require grouping or heavy duty combat, they cease to be viable.

Hey, though, as I said above, it's all moot now, isn't it? You guys won. You'll get your harder game, and the rest of us will get driven off. Enjoy.
This I do not understand -I level up doing story and lowbie pvp, I don't do heroics since they've been nerfed, its too painful to remember how fun they used to be.
I get that you are bitter about this, but wait and see. I bet my lightsaber that all the "harder game" will be for you is a bit slower killing mobs, some planning ahead (like kill the healers first, then silvers, etc) and eventually some rest and recharge for few seconds before getting to another mob

Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Please count into everything that we have much more tools to use these days, like Legacy Unity (or how it is called), Legacy buffs (if all companion stories were played through) and Heroic Moments.

All this stuff was not there years ago, and thus everything felt harder and more of a challence.

These Legacy buffs, for example, everyone forgets about them easily, because they are not openly presented to the player. You can read about them only in the Legacy window.

When I created years ago a new character on a different server with no Legacy etc. at all, it definitively felt so much harder, and my char died much more often because oif that.

Legacy buffing is to me a bit like the "Matthew Effect", like with "those who have will be given even more". The more your legacy advances, the more legacy buffs you receive.
Yeah, I know, I remember. My first ever character was a marauder and it was my first time in a mmo. I died a lot I used cunning stat leather coat just because it looked cool, and learned of interrupts during Baras fight.
On alts it got less difficult due to buffs and my becoming a slightly better player. I ran like 10 different alts through vanilla before 4.0 and it never was a faceroll it is now. This is still the best content in the game, and IMO needs to be taken care of a bit by the devs. I find the increased difficulty (if true) to be the move in a right direction

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
10.10.2019 , 05:31 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by jstankaroslo View Post
And they are in open world, not instanced, so they feel much more immersive than closed Zakuul or Darvannis chapters of KOTFE.
The Darvannis chapter is mostly open-world apart from the bits that would be mortally bothersome if they were open world (bonus blue clickables, etc. in the second segment, for example).
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Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
10.10.2019 , 06:55 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
If you guys were advocating for a toggle or level selection for yourselves, the way they have a toggle with KOTFE and KOTET, I'd have no issue. But forcing everyone else to "enjoy" your harder playstyle in class story content WILL drive players away. Not everyone is here for an operations-style battle when they just want to enjoy the story. Not everyone cares about learning endgame content because not everyone LIKES or wants to do that group content.

If you want harder content in the game, you can nerf your own character (remove gear, companions on passive, etc.). You can play Ops, or flashpoints in NiM, or the many other hard things that SWTOR offers. Why do you also need to force that difficulty into the story content?

As for the heroics, it's one of the only viable ways for solo/story players to level up. The minute they require grouping or heavy duty combat, they cease to be viable.

Hey, though, as I said above, it's all moot now, isn't it? You guys won. You'll get your harder game, and the rest of us will get driven off. Enjoy.
It's pretty amusing the way you keep blaming players for BW's stupid decisions. If you're done irrationally attacking players for being excited that vanilla won't be as faceroll as before, try this on for size: in your experience, has BW consistently listened to a niche group of players? When they did, as for example GftM being the main source of gear for awhile [which was a result of a dev being in a raider group, not a suggestion from the forum], have they made changes that were actually effective for players, or did they just make the simplest change possible because that's easy?

The answer is that BW very obviously doesn't cater to any playstyle and never has. When they appear to be placating story folks at the expense of PVE folks, we end up with some mess like KotFE. I'm a story player. The 'Knights' expansions were crap, and they were crap exactly because BW took the easiest path possible to make a story and didn't bother making it alt-friendly or valuing player attachment for their companions.

They made the game easier during 4.0, and again they didn't just make it slightly easier, they made it stupidly easier. For you to argue that players should take off their gear, set their comp to passive, all these other counter-intuitive ideas is to take the blame away from BW's mismanagement and put it on players. And no one is doing that to you. No one is saying 'well you just have to not be a bad." But even if we DID say that, it would be - for once - richly deserved in your case, for attacking us instead of the people who actually screwed up the game you love.

tl;dr - if you want to be bitter and angry, blame BW, not a hypothetical niche of hardcore gamers.
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OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
10.10.2019 , 07:12 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

I alluded to this in my earlier post (Phase 3 coming down the end of the this week) but I wanted to post a reminder. PTS Phase 3 will be coming down for good this Friday afternoon! Make sure to get in your PTS Achievements by then if you want the Kai Zaikken log.

The current patch that is on PTS will be the final one. We would love to put up more patches and show you the changes that have already been made, along with gathering more feedback. At this point though the team needs to focus their efforts on the final build for the 22nd. Definitely keep all feedback coming it is still being passed onto the team and rolled into launch.

Thanks everyone.

-eric
This was posted yesterday.

According to this no more major updates will be done ! A few tweaks perhaps … but what is done … is done !

BW team has spoken.

Enjoy !

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