First of, i do not claim to be the first one to have thought of this!

I have been browsing through the Forums lately and i saw all thos threads about what people dont like about this game, compairing it to other games and stuff.

Some of those Threads where really aggresive and demanding (give us q! Or this sucks, unlike game W. which got 123) , others where more question based ( could we have x? Why dont you guys implement y?)

And after reading more of them i realized two things.

1: People have a lot of ideas for the future of this game.

2: Nearly all of them claim to be the majority. ( Most players in this game want thingy A! Where someone else replies to, NO! Have you been online lately?! Everyone wants gimmick B!)

So the real problem here is not that the Admins are not reading your posts, or that the developers dont care about this game or something like that.

The problem is that there are just to many ideas out there!

We as a community have to realize that this puts the developers in a really tight spot.

When they choose to implement certain features, they have to pay people to do it, who then have to spend time on it. Time in which they cant programm anything else!

So the hardest thing to do is to find out which ideas fullfill 3 criterias:

1. They have to be doable with as little financial and timely effort as possible.

2. A large percent of the player base must actually want them.

3. They have to carry little to no risk of making people stop playing the game.

That is why we only see changes that everyone can agree on, and that people still complain about.

Which is why i propose this:

We need 2 Pollsystems.

1. For the forums to gather the top 10 ideas for the future of swtor.

2. An ingame pollsystem that lets the Players vote for the changes they want most.

That way the producers would know which changes carry the least risks and the biggest demands, and the players would get the feeling that swtor is their game! That they can change things, and expand this epic universe!

I would even go as far as to say: Without a way to vote on the suggestions for this game, the whole point of beeing able to make suggestions becomes meaningless.

What do you guys think?

( I have read enough in this Forums to realize that the Admins DO read our posts, so hearing the thoughts of one of you would be awesome and keep up the good work, i realize how hard it must be to keep up with all the complaints!)

And after reading more of them i realized two things.

1: People have a lot of ideas for the future of this game.

2: Nearly all of them claim to be the majority. ( Most players in this game want thingy A! Where someone else replies to, NO! Have you been online lately?! Everyone wants gimmick B!)

 

So the real problem here is not that the Admins are not reading your posts, or that the developers dont care about this game or something like that.

The problem is that there are just to many ideas out there!

We had poll capability during the beta forums. AND we had a lot of the same vocal negative demanding people claiming to be a majority (or speaking for the majority). I remember a number of poll threads started to sort all of this out and interestingly enough, in almost every case the poll results invalidated the claims of the vocal negative demanders.

A few people did initiate external polls since launch and interestingly enough, once gain the most vocal negative demanders were not supported by poll results. Which again demonstrates that being a chain posting vocal demander =/= presentation of fact or reality.

Now, I think with the crush of people at launch in the forums, they did not enable polls to conserve resources. They even shut down search at times for the same reason. But now that the forums are finally settling down, I think it would be both good and healthy for the community to activate the ability for forum members to create and vote on polls. Personally, I welcome it.

We did have a poll system before the game went live..apparently it was abused cause majority votes showed BioWare that the forum community wanted things in this game that BioWare did not want to put into the game. Things like....

Appearance Tabs

3D Space Combat

Dual Specs

Non-Human looking Playable Species

Chat Bubbles

I guess BioWare got a bit tired of us showing them our forum created polls when they tried to give us lame excuses for why they don't want to or can't put some much requested feature/content into SWTOR. Hindsight's all 20/20 now, maybe if they'd have listened back then instead of tried to hide all evidence of dissent, SWTOR's sub #'s wouldn't be so low & this MMO wouldn't be going F2P 8 months after launch.

Wow... those where some quick replies...

I dont think its necesarry to give people aside from the Admins the ability to post Polls.

Its their job after all to find the feedback and bringing it to the progammers.

But for them to be able to do their job more efficently, it would be nice to get a better idea of how many people actually want a given feature.

That way they would still have the option of staying away from those features that are just, lets face it, to plain complicated to implement as of yet.

I would guess the programmers allready have a loooong list of things they are supposed to write.

Why not put some of those things up to a vote to start with.

Lets just put ourselfes in their shoes for a second here: They write code all day for a feature they think will be awesome and then a lot of people complain about it.

That cannot be a good feeling!

So if they put the future features up to a vote before sitting down and "wasting" time and money, they would already know that they are working on something that people want and will enjoy.

The problem with a poll system on the forums is this:

It only polls people on the forums. Only about 5 - 10% of an MMO's population come to the forums.

Now you say, "Well, that's enough for a random sample, isn't it? That's how statistics are made! You get a random sample and poll them!" Well, no, it's not. The numbers for the sample are about right, but there's nothing random about the forum posters.

Forum posters are the most passionate players in an MMO community. They care the most about what happens to the game, they have big ideas, they have pie-in-the-sky wants and desires, they are more likely to play at extensive stretches. They are, in short, the fanatics. They're the ones most are most likely to have been here since launch and the ones most likely to still be here on the day the servers go down forever.

So, when you poll forum people, you don't get a sense of what the game's community *at large* would like to see. You're only getting what the die-hard fans want to see. You follow those poll results and you will find yourself catering to the minority most of the time.

No, what is needed is *in-game* polling. You get a much better chance of understanding what the community as a whole would like to see that way.

The problem with a poll system on the forums is this:

 

It only polls people on the forums. Only about 5 - 10% of an MMO's population come to the forums.

 

Now you say, "Well, that's enough for a random sample, isn't it? That's how statistics are made! You get a random sample and poll them!" Well, no, it's not. The numbers for the sample are about right, but there's nothing random about the forum posters.

 

Forum posters are the most passionate players in an MMO community. They care the most about what happens to the game, they have big ideas, they have pie-in-the-sky wants and desires, they are more likely to play at extensive stretches. They are, in short, the fanatics. They're the ones most are most likely to have been here since launch and the ones most likely to still be here on the day the servers go down forever.

 

So, when you poll forum people, you don't get a sense of what the game's community *at large* would like to see. You're only getting what the die-hard fans want to see. You follow those poll results and you will find yourself catering to the minority most of the time.

 

No, what is needed is *in-game* polling. You get a much better chance of understanding what the community as a whole would like to see that way.

I agree, and would recomment to use the forums only to gether ideas.

As i tried to say earlier, use the forums to gather ideas and then put them up for voting "in game"

you could even reward players for voting with... i dont know a title, oder sparkle-powder of a certain color or I dont know...

Don't really have anything to add but i would just like to say i love 'your' idea

As many, and probably most, of the fans of this game I have lots of ideas in my head about how i would love the game to be, but i know that most of them are unrealistic or not shared by the majority.

An in game poll system would be a brilliant way of allowing people to express their opinions on how to move the game forward and in a way which bioware agrees is possible.

Really hope this idea gets some big attention.

I think in game polling would be a great idea, if Bioware cared at all.

A short poll when you log in that asks you a few questions, then Bioware can get stats on what their subscribers like and don't like. However, I do see this happening as Bioware seems to be in a bubble and is doing ... whatever it wants to do.

Remember the monthly updates we were promised? How about SGR "soon" after launch? Heck, they can't even figure out of Makeb is going to be free for subscribers or not.

I think in game polling would be a great idea, if Bioware cared at all.

 

A short poll when you log in that asks you a few questions, then Bioware can get stats on what their subscribers like and don't like. However, I do see this happening as Bioware seems to be in a bubble and is doing ... whatever it wants to do.

 

Remember the monthly updates we were promised? How about SGR "soon" after launch? Heck, they can't even figure out of Makeb is going to be free for subscribers or not.

the real problem with community feedback is this:

None of us are in the loop. Period.

We do not know whats going on behind the curtains, and they continue to ask us to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" because it would destroy part of the illusion that this game could be anything and everything.

Because for it to be everything they would need lots and lots and looots of money.

We are talking money that not even wow made in its prime.

So one game can never be everything you ever dreamed of.

And the real problem lies there, if it cant be everything it must be something, and that something might not be liked by everyone.

That is why they keep us out of the loop. To get even a few player to pay for a while, that would not, if they knew what wasnt waiting for them.

But why not replaizing the "man behind the curtain" with the players behind the curtain?

Because the answer is not allways: More of what we allready got.

Edit:

Don't really have anything to add but i would just like to say i love 'your' idea

As many, and probably most, of the fans of this game I have lots of ideas in my head about how i would love the game to be, but i know that most of them are unrealistic or not shared by the majority.

An in game poll system would be a brilliant way of allowing people to express their opinions on how to move the game forward and in a way which bioware agrees is possible.

 

Really hope this idea gets some big attention.

Thank you, i hope so as well. It would be awesome if we would actually get to vote on what the future game will look like... Just think of us as little Investors, and as that we all get a little say in what we want for the future of SWTOR...

the real problem with community feedback is this:

None of us are in the loop. Period.

We do not know whats going on behind the curtains, and they continue to ask us to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" because it would destroy part of the illusion that this game could be anything and everything.

 

Because for it to be everything they would need lots and lots and looots of money.

We are talking money that not even wow made in its prime.

So one game can never be everything you ever dreamed of.

 

And the real problem lies there, if it cant be everything it must be something, and that something might not be liked by everyone.

 

That is why they keep us out of the loop. To get even a few player to pay for a while, that would not, if they knew what wasnt waiting for them.

 

But why not replaizing the "man behind the curtain" with the players behind the curtain?

Because the answer is not allways: More of what we allready got.

 

 

Edit:

 

 

Thank you, i hope so as well. It would be awesome if we would actually get to vote on what the future game will look like... Just think of us as little Investors, and as that we all get a little say in what we want for the future of SWTOR...

I think polling would show how out of touch Bioware is with their fans, something they are probably unwilling or uncomfortable to find out.

Remember when Bioware did a poll at umm... a convention I forget which one.. after ME3 was out I know that much. They asked the people there what their favorite ME game was and it was overwhelmingly ME2. The devs seemed taken aback by this, like they expected everyone to like ME3 because they told us to like ME3. The same attitude is here it seems. We are supposed to like what their doing with SWTOR because (1) it's Star Wars and (2) they're Bioware.

Personally, I welcome it.

In coming "Hot Jawa" Polls in 3 .. 2 ..1 ..

We had poll capability during the beta forums. AND we had a lot of the same vocal negative demanding people claiming to be a majority (or speaking for the majority). I remember a number of poll threads started to sort all of this out and interestingly enough, in almost every case the poll results invalidated the claims of the vocal negative demanders.

 

A few people did initiate external polls since launch and interestingly enough, once gain the most vocal negative demanders were not supported by poll results. Which again demonstrates that being a chain posting vocal demander =/= presentation of fact or reality.

 

Now, I think with the crush of people at launch in the forums, they did not enable polls to conserve resources. They even shut down search at times for the same reason. But now that the forums are finally settling down, I think it would be both good and healthy for the community to activate the ability for forum members to create and vote on polls. Personally, I welcome it.

And despite all of the "vocal negative demanders" being somehow wrong, the game has suffered a fairly crippling drop in subscription numbers...

I think polling would show how out of touch Bioware is with their fans, something they are probably unwilling or uncomfortable to find out.

 

Remember when Bioware did a poll at umm... a convention I forget which one.. after ME3 was out I know that much. They asked the people there what their favorite ME game was and it was overwhelmingly ME2. The devs seemed taken aback by this, like they expected everyone to like ME3 because they told us to like ME3. The same attitude is here it seems. We are supposed to like what their doing with SWTOR because (1) it's Star Wars and (2) they're Bioware.

Maybe i am naive, but i dont really buy into the whole "hate for the community" thing.

It implies that the people at Bioware (and EA for that matter) are crazy and or stupid.

Which is hard to believe considering that they managed to stay in business with their multi-million business for years.

And therein might lie the problem. They are so big and sucessfull (and financially speaking swtor still did make them money) that they might not feel th need to listen to other people.

And hell, maybe they are right. Maybe all our ideas sound good to us, but in reality are terrible, for reasons we dont realize because, well most of us have no experience at all at either programming or managing a game of this scale...

That beeing said I still believe that among 50 bad ideas we provide there will be at least one thats decend if not more.

The question is: Would the community vote for the good one?

or more importantly: Could we be trusted with the Future of "our" game?

this forum runs on vbulletin. it's very easy to install a 'poll/survey' modification/plugin to allow users to do this.

then again, it's easy to create individual server forums for the remaining dozen or so servers left too. . .yet we dont have that either.

To be honest it is not a good idea. I highly dought that even 1/4 of the games population even visits these forums let a lone post on here.

While it would be a great idea had everyone gotten on forums but that's not the case. Personally I don't care who the majority of the crowd is, the game needs hardcore players to get the developers to push content out, pvpers- hardcore an casual to keep the flow moving in the right direction in terms of balance and future competitive types of pvp. Unfortunately the developers are slow in communication, development, and fixing issues with game eng bugs an so on.

While it is a creative thought I don't believe a minor few people should format the games future threw a pole

To be honest it is not a good idea. I highly dought that even 1/4 of the games population even visits these forums let a lone post on here.

While it would be a great idea had everyone gotten on forums but that's not the case. Personally I don't care who the majority of the crowd is, the game needs hardcore players to get the developers to push content out, pvpers- hardcore an casual to keep the flow moving in the right direction in terms of balance and future competitive types of pvp. Unfortunately the developers are slow in communication, development, and fixing issues with game eng bugs an so on.

 

While it is a creative thought I don't believe a minor few people should format the games future threw a pole

The forum (polls) should only be used to gather information, heck for all i care they could even ignore the forums for that, what i want is an INGAME poll system where each and every player gets a chance to vote for upcomming

content.

Yes i said it: I would still see it as an improvement that they ignore the forums IF they let us vote on THEIR ideas, kinda let us pick the best ones.

Or the more urgent ones!

The forum (polls) should only be used to gather information, heck for all i care they could even ignore the forums for that, what i want is an INGAME poll system where each and every player gets a chance to vote for upcomming

content.

 

Yes i said it: I would still see it as an improvement that they ignore the forums IF they let us vote on THEIR ideas, kinda let us pick the best ones.

Or the more urgent ones!

To be honest some of the things people that currently post as a desire I find (personally) to be far from what is needed to be a small desire in terms of game performance and or content. For a example chat bubbles should have already been in game an could be a small minor amount of work to put in. How ever they need to fix a lot more on the game then add in small desires by the community.

The game needs massive work on the game engine so it can function well an hold possiable large scale pvp battles. Heck they can't even build a large scale war zone due to the current ones have issues with 16 players.

I would full support this had BW/EA been very aggressive on fixing the game all around an pumping out content like they claimed they would not to mention like they should of.

We did have a poll system before the game went live..apparently it was abused cause majority votes showed BioWare that the forum community wanted things in this game that BioWare did not want to put into the game. Things like....

 

Appearance Tabs

3D Space Combat

Dual Specs

Non-Human looking Playable Species

Chat Bubbles

 

I guess BioWare got a bit tired of us showing them our forum created polls when they tried to give us lame excuses for why they don't want to or can't put some much requested feature/content into SWTOR. Hindsight's all 20/20 now, maybe if they'd have listened back then instead of tried to hide all evidence of dissent, SWTOR's sub #'s wouldn't be so low & this MMO wouldn't be going F2P 8 months after launch.

Spot on.

If Bioware had been listening 3 years ago things would have been vastly improved. Instead we have to wait till after launch and in some cases a long time after launch for things that were asked for from the community. Appearance tabs becomes orange gear, a solution but not as good as an appearance tab. 3D space combat is a super secret space project which may or may not be 3D space, more alien species is Cathar or humans with face paints on. I really have no idea what BW hate about duel specs and chat bubbles or taking people of more space missions to provide end game content that is linked to a rail shooter few people seem to care about.

Maybe listening to your player base and discusing with them how the game is going to turn out is better than ignoring them and saying we aren't ready to talk about that yet.

When they want players optinion, they ask for it. If I remember correclty, most recent was about new big feature, and proper space combat was winner. So there, pools are here, but they are used only when there is question without wrong answers, and actually need to ask such question. With BW late with delivering few promised features, at this moment there is no need for any more "what would you like to see" pools.

Making any pools about "Easy life vs hard life" is pointless, because people are lazy and stupid and don't care about longlivity of game or bigger picture. Stupid questions like "Make gear free" or "Make Makeb free" are almost certain to have around 70% of people in favour, while it might not be best solution for game as whole.

When they want players optinion, they ask for it. If I remember correclty, most recent was about new big feature, and proper space combat was winner. So there, pools are here, but they are used only when there is question without wrong answers, and actually need to ask such question. With BW late with delivering few promised features, at this moment there is no need for any more "what would you like to see" pools.

 

Making any pools about "Easy life vs hard life" is pointless, because people are lazy and stupid and don't care about longlivity of game or bigger picture. Stupid questions like "Make gear free" or "Make Makeb free" are almost certain to have around 70% of people in favour, while it might not be best solution for game as whole.

I think you might underestimate the intelligence of the player base.

I doubt that these polls would get 70% of peoplse agreement. I would guess that most people want to enjoy this game and making things worthless by giving them to everyone would certainly ruin the fun for those players as well.

But my point would still be that the admins could pick up some ideas from the forums, like 10 a month and have us vote on them.

If even 1 of them gets implemented that would be pretty nice, would it not?

They could even give special items to the guys with the best ideas. (A title of some sort, or something along those lines)