The questions stands.

158 Obroan PVP hilt gives 68 Expertise.

Swapping ot for 180 PvE Hilt gives 20 Endurance,33 willpower,+234 max damage,+155 min damage,+260 Force Power boost,but leaves u with just 1950 Expertise total,cause,since 2.7 patch,u r no longer boolsted to 2018 Expertise if u have it.

 

Whats better to have?

Edited April 13, 2014 by Dreamme

68 expertise is better

Bolster will make that PvE hilt hit like a wet noodle. PvP one is better. Edited April 13, 2014 by Evolixe

pvp hilts get bolstered to top lvl pve weapon while still having expertise. Don't bother.

pvp hilts get bolstered to top lvl pve weapon while still having expertise. Don't bother.

 

I'm not too sure about that. I think the stat sheet is still broke or bolster is doing something wankie. The new system is a lot like the pre bolster system, where we would drop some EXP for power crystals because a DR..

I'm not too sure about that. I think the stat sheet is still broke or bolster is doing something wankie. The new system is a lot like the pre bolster system, where we would drop some EXP for power crystals because a DR..

 

I'm not sure what exactly this contributes to the OT. I have been running dual power crystals and 1936 expertise since 2.0 with no negative ramifications.

I'm not sure what exactly this contributes to the OT. I have been running dual power crystals and 1936 expertise since 2.0 with no negative ramifications.

 

 

E.g. PvP weapon damage isn't being bolstered to top PvE damage, even though your stat sheet says it is.. Which means the increased weapon damage and power/forcetech power from 162+ PvE hilts makes up for the EXP loss.

 

 

It's the same scenario when we would swap EXP crystals for power crystals. Slightly lower EXP, better attack ratings.

Has anyone actually tested this inside war zones? and i don't just mean looking at there stats sheet but actually fighting and looking at those numbers?

 

I am really curious if it would work on my Annihilation Marauder.

Edited May 20, 2014 by mtanios

from today update, 2.7.1, there is implemented bolster system to the dummy on zhiost deck on fleet, so anyone can test it by yourself, as we are told that we can now do tests on dummy as it where inside WZ.

from today update, 2.7.1, there is implemented bolster system to the dummy on zhiost deck on fleet, so anyone can test it by yourself, as we are told that we can now do tests on dummy as it where inside WZ.

 

That's very nice, although that would mean i have to farm 2 mil credits just to be able to test this. If it's not an upgrade it would mean i wasted hours of game play farming credits

Edited May 21, 2014 by mtanios

I just tried this on my sin tonite bc im curious too.

 

Max damage w/ 180 hilt at 1814 and after using the Bolsterizer i went up to 1881

 

I only have an older conq 154 rated hilt that i popped in next:

 

max damage w/ 154 hilt at 1532 (lol) and after using the Bolsterizer i went up to 1873!

 

I'm guessing that in a wz, the bolster is gonna put you pretty close to a 180 hilt for the 158 and 162 hilts so its not worth the 2.5m to buy the hilt if u wz a lot. I open world pvp more, so the 180 hilt definitely gives me an advantage w/ only a very small % difference bc of the 68 less expertise.

The short of it:

 

In a warzone use the PVP hilt because bolster raises it higher and it keeps the expertise.

 

In open world PVP with no bolster, the 180 works out better.

The reason you want the expertise is not because of the damage difference, it's because of the damage reduction that comes with the higher expertise. While a 180 hilt may, or may not, cause slightly more damage, the problem is, it won't simultaneously act in a defensive fashion like a PVP/higher-expertise hilt would. Being able to cause a few points more damage doesn't do much good if you can't stay alive long enough to fire off more than a couple attacks. Edited June 15, 2014 by HeatRacer

The reason you want the expertise is not because of the damage difference, it's because of the damage reduction that comes with the higher expertise. While a 180 hilt may, or may not, cause slightly more damage, the problem is, it won't simultaneously act in a defensive fashion like a PVP/higher-expertise hilt would. Being able to cause a few points more damage doesn't do much good if you can't stay alive long enough to fire off more than a couple attacks.

 

While true, I don't think TTL is that drastically reduced by a simple hilt change. Tone down the exaggeration just a bit, bro.

While true, I don't think TTL is that drastically reduced by a simple hilt change. Tone down the exaggeration just a bit, bro.

 

Tone down the condescension, 'bro', the point still stands; we've all been in matches with full-180-geared PUGs who have a big bonus dmg stat, but die twice as much as the PVP-geared people due to the lack of Expertise dmg reduction. While you could argue that the damage reduction difference from just changing the hilt is negligible, then the same argument also applies to any little damage increase too (which is getting mitigated by your opponent's Expertise).

 

The damage reduction from max Expertise is better than any armor, because it cannot be reduced or bypassed, costs no energy and does not need to be cast, and it works even when you're stunned. If you can't recognize the benefit of something that reduces the amount of damage you take on each and every attack you ever take, while still providing damage output comparable to one that doesn't, then I'm not exaggerating when I say, I hope I'm never stuck on a team with you, 'bro'.

Edited June 16, 2014 by HeatRacer

Tone down the condescension, 'bro', the point still stands; we've all been in matches with full-180-geared PUGs who have a big bonus dmg stat, but die twice as much as the PVP-geared people due to the lack of Expertise dmg reduction. While you could argue that the damage reduction difference from just changing the hilt is negligible, then the same argument also applies to any little damage increase too (which is getting mitigated by your opponent's Expertise).

 

The damage reduction from max Expertise is better than any armor, because it cannot be reduced or bypassed, costs no energy and does not need to be cast, and it works even when you're stunned. If you can't recognize the benefit of something that reduces the amount of damage you take on each and every attack you ever take, while still providing damage output comparable to one that doesn't, then I'm not exaggerating when I say, I hope I'm never stuck on a team with you, 'bro'.

 

The argument is specifically in regards to determining the difference between the hilts, the impact of said difference is an entirely different argument.

 

So no, your dramatic over the top aspect thrown into your argument is, in fact, over the top and uncalled for. You making a response of "well if my point on differences isn't as dramatic as you claim, then yours isn't either!" is actually antagonistic by nature, since no one started the debate of "is it really that big of a difference?" until you did. Thus, trying to play defensive when you instigated the attack actually makes you the attacking party.

 

As for your argument, I disagree. In fact, I'd be willing to argue that if you keep BiS tank PvE gear with set bonus for only the 4 set bonus armored gear (head, chest, boots, gloves, pants) and mixed it with Expertise pieces for everything else, you get much better damage mitigation capabilities in comparison to full PvP gear.

 

Trade off in damage reduction is only for DPS really, tanks lose the opposite in damage increase. Where in all reality, 1500+ Expertise with 180 armorings and PvE set bonuses that grant powerful damage mitigation boosts >>>>>>> 2018 Expertise tank gear that boosts damage capabilities.

Edited June 16, 2014 by ZooMzy

The argument is specifically in regards to determining the difference between the hilts, the impact of said difference is an entirely different argument.

 

So no, your dramatic over the top aspect thrown into your argument is, in fact, over the top and uncalled for. You making a response of "well if my point on differences isn't as dramatic as you claim, then yours isn't either!" is actually antagonistic by nature, since no one started the debate of "is it really that big of a difference?" until you did. Thus, trying to play defensive when you instigated the attack actually makes you the attacking party.

 

As for your argument, I disagree. In fact, I'd be willing to argue that if you keep BiS tank PvE gear with set bonus for only the 4 set bonus armored gear (head, chest, boots, gloves, pants) and mixed it with Expertise pieces for everything else, you get much better damage mitigation capabilities in comparison to full PvP gear.

 

Trade off in damage reduction is only for DPS really, tanks lose the opposite in damage increase. Where in all reality, 1500+ Expertise with 180 armorings and PvE set bonuses that grant powerful damage mitigation boosts >>>>>>> 2018 Expertise tank gear that boosts damage capabilities.

 

What do you mean, "no one started the debate of if it's a big difference till I did"? This whole thread is about whether swapping the hilts is worthwhile. How can you claim that debating the impact/effect is somehow a separate discussion? What is the point of determining the difference in hilts if we're not going to weigh the effect of the tradeoffs?

 

As for your assertion about PVE set bonuses sometimes being a superior alternative, I totally agree. However, PVE mods can be combined in such way as to get almost full Expertise, so that doesn't have to be an either-or situation. But as you yourself just said, this is about hilt swaps, not set bonuses, so it's a straw man argument anyways. (Edit: I think I see what happened..when I said the damage reduction from Expertise is "better than any armor", I meant "armor" in the general sense of something that protects you from damage.)

 

Yes, my response to that other poster was antagonistic (and just used verbiage based on what he wrote) because I took his response to be dismissive and condescending, and without even adding any points to refute it. But, my "antagonism" and your nannying are actually both beside the point, so I won't bother commenting any further on that.

Edited June 16, 2014 by HeatRacer

While you could argue that the damage reduction difference from just changing the hilt is negligible, then the same argument also applies to any little damage increase too (which is getting mitigated by your opponent's Expertise).

 

 

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what this thread is attempting to discuss. No one has said anything about "full 180-geared" anythings, this is about full Expertise with the exception of a hilt.

 

Bro.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what this thread is attempting to discuss. No one has said anything about "full 180-geared" anythings, this is about full Expertise with the exception of a hilt.

 

Bro.

 

I'm sorry the obviousness of a statement taking the concept to its extreme to illustrate a point completely flew over your head. Is there anything you'd actually like to add to the discussion, boo-boo?

Edited June 17, 2014 by HeatRacer

One thing to remember is that if you equip any item with expertise on it and then put a PVE item in it... Ie hilt, crystal, mod or enhancement,.... You lose any expertise on that item and it will not be bolstered... If you want to use a power crystal or better hilt, then make sure the whole weapon is a PVE weapon... The weapon will then get bolstered if it has no expertise... From what I have read in the forums regarding recorded battle stats and also what I tried on the bolster dummy... You will do more damage than with the PVP weapon... The offset is slightly lower expertise, but not as much if you have no expertise on it.

Well ill try to end the debate. PvE hilts are BiS for all weapon based classes and a wash for the Force/Techies.

 

 

Pieces of advice for you all. Trust your tooltip, manually calc the math, don't buy PvP weapons, spend those comms elsewhere..

I'm not too sure about that. I think the stat sheet is still broke or bolster is doing something wankie. The new system is a lot like the pre bolster system, where we would drop some EXP for power crystals because a DR..

 

I think you are right, L-Randle. As I did my upgrading from PvE to Ob gear to Bru gear on a few toons, I've noticed that there are some weird quirks in how Bolster is handling the gear. At times, in the upgrade process, I was finding that I was cranking out better heals/damage/protection in some of my earlier gear setups -- despite what the stats said on the character window. The PvP Bolster is still the "mystery meat" in the SWTOR's Death Star Cafeteria.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Grue_Hunter

The PvP Bolster is still the "mystery meat" in the SWTOR's Death Star Cafeteria.

 

"But the food is hot so you'll need a tray".... Bio please give bolster a tray so you stop dropping it on the floor in future...