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PvP Jugg


Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
08.06.2018 , 03:12 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Guardian dps is the least mobile melee class with no anti-focus tool.
Sorry to cherry pick your post, but LEAST MOBILE?!

I find it mandatory to take Focused Freedom, True Harmony, and Persistent Chill as a dps guardian. Debilitation to root targets too.

Can I just say that Persistent Chill is an excellent utility? I know it doesn't deal as much damage any more but it slows your target while speeding you up. It's a win win.
Beruhl / Zenovia / Lobotomy / Sejanos / Warpunk
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Quote: Originally Posted by Trolltar View Post
I believe he's quoting a frequent contributor to these forums. His name is Strawman.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
Thanks Rion Starbrah.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
08.06.2018 , 04:51 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Sorry to cherry pick your post, but LEAST MOBILE?!

I find it mandatory to take Focused Freedom, True Harmony, and Persistent Chill as a dps guardian. Debilitation to root targets too.

Can I just say that Persistent Chill is an excellent utility? I know it doesn't deal as much damage any more but it slows your target while speeding you up. It's a win win.
Yeah the pathetic damage is totally worth taking a utility point for in a tier that already has the longer reflect, guardian leap improvement, and saber throw root/awe cd reduction (pick 2 of 3). You can slow targets without blowing a utility point for it.

And if you can use focused defense as a speed up, you really need to experience guardian dps under focus, seriously you may as well recommend the enure cleanse here. At least then you could use a less useful defensive as a speed up. (And no i don't take the enure cleanse).

Out of all the utilities you mentioned, i only take the root on whatever we're calling master strike now.

Lets look at the other melee classes:
Most prominently, mara, who in addition to our tools, have transcendence (greatly inproved by utility) and can spec into a second leap. Oh that healer you just leapt to force sped away? Leap again. Also force camo, so actual disengage.

Operatives: roll. Need i say more? Also stealth out, dodge, and lots of other toys.

Shadow: force speed, short CD and 60% DR woth utility, and a stealth out. I sympathize with the removal of phase walk but they are still more mobile than guardians.

Vg: still has some short range abilities, in addition to hold the line (note I'm including them here to point out the mobility thing, but VG has less effective survivability as they too lack an anti-focus and FD is an infinitely better self heal than VG kolto.)

So yes, least mobile melee class with no anti-focus.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
08.08.2018 , 11:20 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Yeah the pathetic damage is totally worth taking a utility point for in a tier that already has the longer reflect, guardian leap improvement, and saber throw root/awe cd reduction (pick 2 of 3). You can slow targets without blowing a utility point for it.
As a tank, I'm sure you find the +2s to reflect somewhat useful. As a Focus and Vigi player, I think it's situational. Same with Jedi Warden (saber throw/awe). Thwart (guardian leap improvement) is pretty good. The reason I like Persistent Chills that you can use it infinitely for a very minimal amount of force: slows enemies, speeds you up, AND deals an aoe dot. I think Cut Loose (lowers cd on blade blitz and purges roots/slows) is better than Jedi Warden.

It sounds like we have different playstyles. You think like a tank and as such, you are probably a great peeler for heals, even when in dps spec. This is not a criticism.

Quote:
And if you can use focused defense as a speed up, you really need to experience guardian dps under focus, seriously you may as well recommend the enure cleanse here. At least then you could use a less useful defensive as a speed up. (And no i don't take the enure cleanse).
The Focused Defense speed is definitely situational. I like it as an added bonus to our self heal ability.

Quote:
Out of all the utilities you mentioned, i only take the root on whatever we're calling master strike now.
Yeah that's the debilitation one I mentioned. Good one.

Quote:
Lets look at the other melee classes:
Most prominently, mara, who in addition to our tools, have transcendence (greatly inproved by utility) and can spec into a second leap. Oh that healer you just leapt to force sped away? Leap again. Also force camo, so actual disengage.

Operatives: roll. Need i say more? Also stealth out, dodge, and lots of other toys.

Shadow: force speed, short CD and 60% DR woth utility, and a stealth out. I sympathize with the removal of phase walk but they are still more mobile than guardians.

Vg: still has some short range abilities, in addition to hold the line (note I'm including them here to point out the mobility thing, but VG has less effective survivability as they too lack an anti-focus and FD is an infinitely better self heal than VG kolto.)

So yes, least mobile melee class with no anti-focus.
In my mind, Shadows have the worst mobility, which puts Guardian Juggs 3rd. And really, VG only has good mobility for 10s every 35s .

Addendum: With a Guardian in Focus spec, you have Zealous Leap which can be used within 10m regardless of slow or roots. With Guardian in Vigi, I definitely take Battlefield Command (reduces leap cd by 1s each time you're attacked) because you get X number of seconds of KB/slow/stun immunity after a leap.
Beruhl / Zenovia / Lobotomy / Sejanos / Warpunk
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Quote: Originally Posted by Trolltar View Post
I believe he's quoting a frequent contributor to these forums. His name is Strawman.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
Thanks Rion Starbrah.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
08.08.2018 , 01:21 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
As a tank, I'm sure you find the +2s to reflect somewhat useful. As a Focus and Vigi player, I think it's situational. Same with Jedi Warden (saber throw/awe). Thwart (guardian leap improvement) is pretty good. The reason I like Persistent Chills that you can use it infinitely for a very minimal amount of force: slows enemies, speeds you up, AND deals an aoe dot. I think Cut Loose (lowers cd on blade blitz and purges roots/slows) is better than Jedi Warden.

It sounds like we have different playstyles. You think like a tank and as such, you are probably a great peeler for heals, even when in dps spec. This is not a criticism.



The Focused Defense speed is definitely situational. I like it as an added bonus to our self heal ability.


Yeah that's the debilitation one I mentioned. Good one.



In my mind, Shadows have the worst mobility, which puts Guardian Juggs 3rd. And really, VG only has good mobility for 10s every 35s .

Addendum: With a Guardian in Focus spec, you have Zealous Leap which can be used within 10m regardless of slow or roots. With Guardian in Vigi, I definitely take Battlefield Command (reduces leap cd by 1s each time you're attacked) because you get X number of seconds of KB/slow/stun immunity after a leap.
Utility points are so personal playstyle oriented that whatever I'm not arguing the issue. I still say that post nerf the focus spent spamming a now pathetic dot is better spent elsewhere, since the slow effect is there utility or not.

I too take the leap cd reduction on damage taken with utility when i go vigi. I rarely go focus for pvp as, at that point i may as well log over to my concentration sentinel.

And shadows have the worst mobility? That's almost funny. They might have lost phase walk but force speed every 20 seconds, and force speed lets you move wherever you want, rsther than uni-directional. And they now have a proper (if buggy as crap) gap closer in phantom stride.

I am in no way claiming VG is better at pvp than guardian. It isnt. PT is more mobile, with hydraulic overrides, a few (though many taken away) 10m abilities, and a leap (however stupid it is that they get it at 59). Oh and all PT also have a pull, though technically not a mobility thing, it can bring a target in range.

This is why guardians have FD i think - we are essentially going to be sitting in a bunch of enemies and sometimes get stuck there. For any evidence see sniper and fire probe. Who do they always spam it on? Me (well, or my healer).