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Regarding 2.6 operative / scoundrel changes (dev's post)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Regarding 2.6 operative / scoundrel changes (dev's post)
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Eyesmindassassin's Avatar


Eyesmindassassin
01.03.2014 , 04:36 AM | #11
I don't know why, but in Operative and Scoundrel forums the loudest voices are the PvP'ers. Unfortunately for you fellows, the vast majority of Ops and Scoundrels in the actual game play PvE and would like to be able to spec Concealment/Scrapper for raids instead of being pigeon holed into Lethality. Getting DPS on par with other classes is and always will be first priority over any survivability buffs. This is the same reason Rage is not nerfed because PvE comes first. Period.

Haystak's Avatar


Haystak
01.03.2014 , 07:02 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Eyesmindassassin View Post
I don't know why, but in Operative and Scoundrel forums the loudest voices are the PvP'ers. Unfortunately for you fellows, the vast majority of Ops and Scoundrels in the actual game play PvE and would like to be able to spec Concealment/Scrapper for raids instead of being pigeon holed into Lethality. Getting DPS on par with other classes is and always will be first priority over any survivability buffs. This is the same reason Rage is not nerfed because PvE comes first. Period.
Its not a pigeon whole if you only have one other tree to pick from. Scoundrels/Operatives have two trees to pick from right now for end game pve.

I think BW knew that most of the people still playing dps scoundrels are in pve, which would explain the note that dps scoundrels are recieving some added damage. The words were chosen carefully.

That being said however I think its probably going to be some baseline tweeks. Guessing any further without more info is going to be based on assumptions. Right now Im just waiting for the patch notes.
60s Scoundrel,Sage
55s Everything else

Morde_'s Avatar


Morde_
01.03.2014 , 09:07 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Eyesmindassassin View Post
I don't know why, but in Operative and Scoundrel forums the loudest voices are the PvP'ers. Unfortunately for you fellows, the vast majority of Ops and Scoundrels in the actual game play PvE and would like to be able to spec Concealment/Scrapper for raids instead of being pigeon holed into Lethality. Getting DPS on par with other classes is and always will be first priority over any survivability buffs. This is the same reason Rage is not nerfed because PvE comes first. Period.
Sorry for politely expressing our views.

We'll go back to our corner now, please don't hurt us, master race PvEr!
Scold
<Hey im washed up>
carried by jonie

Racter's Avatar


Racter
01.03.2014 , 10:55 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Morde_ View Post
Sorry for politely expressing our views.

We'll go back to our corner now, please don't hurt us, master race PvEr!
So much this. RE: Our burst comps, meta has changed to double healer tank off tank or double tank double heal. Whole other level of burst comp, you run around doing zero damage for 28.5s, flash bang/fear everyone double probe maul/immolate/smash and global someone. Horribly unfun to play against. Glory and I are gone, when Turrican comes back we'll play for one more night to get them over 2k and then the two of us are gone for good. Dunno about night or turrican.

I may hang around/come back for 2.6 depending on level of operative buff. Only spec/class I still enjoy playing in this game.

Annoyingly enough I had initially planned something similar but with double concealment instead of running a second healer. Survivability was just too bad to use it.

Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
01.03.2014 , 11:38 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Eyesmindassassin View Post
I don't know why, but in Operative and Scoundrel forums the loudest voices are the PvP'ers. Unfortunately for you fellows, the vast majority of Ops and Scoundrels in the actual game play PvE and would like to be able to spec Concealment/Scrapper for raids instead of being pigeon holed into Lethality. Getting DPS on par with other classes is and always will be first priority over any survivability buffs. This is the same reason Rage is not nerfed because PvE comes first. Period.
Even in PVE surivability is a major issue for operatives/scoundrels. when we raided yesterday our slinger brought his scoundrel for fun and giggles and gave scrapper a go. He is an overall very good player, but since i was healing on my scoundrel it was major pain to keep him alive, and he was usually the first to die. in pvp and pve there are tons of aoe without and that is a major issue. Lethality might have an easier time since you have a lot of mid ranged attacks, but concealment need to straight at their butt so to say.

Actually even in PVE concealment damage isnt that bad, (in fact it was buff with 2.0, while the burst was nerfed). Thing in both kind of content is that the damage isnt so much of problem but survivability.

But i will no complain, if they by accident make us OP again, i will just gank around a bit and see how it goes.

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
01.03.2014 , 03:31 PM | #16
Quote:
First off, Happy New Year everyone! I am back in the office now from the holidays so we are right back to some yellow posts

Game Update 2.6 first and foremost will mark the launch of Galactic Starfighter! That will mean the introduction of:

•The Gunship unlock available for F2P players.
•A new Gunship variant.
•Two Bomber variants!
•...and more! We will talk more about this next week.

Also, Game Update 2.6 will come with a few class changes, here is just an overview of some of what you will see:

•A fairly significant DPS boost for Operatives/Scoundrels.
•Mercenaries/Commandos will now have a skill to eliminate pushback on Tracer Missile/Grav Round and Power Shot/Charged Bolts.
•Sorcerers/Sages will now have a skill to eliminate pushback on Lightning Strike and Force Lightning/Disturbance and Telekinetic Throw.
•Mercenaries/Commandos can now cast Kolto Shell/Trauma Probe on more than one target at a time.
•Mercenaries/Commandos can now use Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot on themselves while Combat Support Cylinder/Combat Support Cell are active.
As always, look for the 2.6 patch notes for a full list of all changes that are coming! That is just a preview of what is to come.

-eric


gawd dam it BW, you are going to make me resub again aren't you... But as others have said, let's just see what gets changed... first.

Transmet's Avatar


Transmet
01.03.2014 , 09:01 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Racter View Post
I may hang around/come back for 2.6 depending on level of operative buff. Only spec/class I still enjoy playing in this game.
Please, Racter, tell us more about your riveting plans.....
NOIRE - Concealment Operative

SUOMY - Madness Assassin

mulzii's Avatar


mulzii
01.04.2014 , 10:36 AM | #18
at this point i'd be happy if they lowered the cooldown on backstab and/or removed the cooldown on shiv. That dead space in the middle of a 'rotation' is just freaking brutal to the flow.

That being said, if they raise the dps up considerably, to where the best defense is a good offense, i'm fine with that. But then the QQ about stun-locks will rear its ugly head again. They we'll get a nerf something along the lines of '25% damage increase on backstab when AB is active, but also has a 75% chance to cause 100% reflective damage to OP, causing him to giggle while respawning..

Meiloc's Avatar


Meiloc
01.04.2014 , 12:01 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Cordorian View Post
Even in PVE surivability is a major issue for operatives/scoundrels. when we raided yesterday our slinger brought his scoundrel for fun and giggles and gave scrapper a go. He is an overall very good player, but since i was healing on my scoundrel it was major pain to keep him alive, and he was usually the first to die. in pvp and pve there are tons of aoe without and that is a major issue. Lethality might have an easier time since you have a lot of mid ranged attacks, but concealment need to straight at their butt so to say.

Actually even in PVE concealment damage isnt that bad, (in fact it was buff with 2.0, while the burst was nerfed). Thing in both kind of content is that the damage isnt so much of problem but survivability.

But i will no complain, if they by accident make us OP again, i will just gank around a bit and see how it goes.
I'm going to have to disagree with this statement though I can see where you're coming from. I'm a Concealment PVEer mostly so I too have felt the cold sting of death in raids. BUT, I cannot blame it in the class survivability. If and when I do die, it's due to stealing aggro (obviously) and not wanting to “waste” a survival cd. But that's clearly my own fault. The innate impulse in us wanting to kill before being killed through sheer overpowering is just sometimes hard to resist ;P Anyway, the point is, if you drop the lonewolf mentality for just a minute, survivability does not become an issue in PVE whatsoever. My vanish/evasion/shield have proven to be more than effective in situations where I've become the main tank in a boss fight. Having reusable health packs have been a plus as well ^_^ Case in point, lack of survivability in PVE is really a(n) L2P issue. Our real issue as Conc PVEers was our sustained damage output due to eventual lack of energy. Hopefully, this “fairly significant damage boost” might fix this. Hopefully.

As for the PVP aspect of this change, I see it as a potential return of a good offense being the best defense. But, who knows. I do not PVP anywhere near as much as I used to but I blame that on my limited leisure time. But even so, I am aware that survivability clearly is the issue. Not so much damage output. And I say that from personal experience. Not just reiteration of the masses. I'm certain in time we will see that much needed PVP love.

At least a buff of sorts is on the way. Baby steps, ladies and gents, baby steps.
Pies lesi Domine, Dona eis requiem *smacks face with a tome*

Alphasgimaone's Avatar


Alphasgimaone
01.04.2014 , 05:49 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Eyesmindassassin View Post
I don't know why, but in Operative and Scoundrel forums the loudest voices are the PvP'ers. Unfortunately for you fellows, the vast majority of Ops and Scoundrels in the actual game play PvE and would like to be able to spec Concealment/Scrapper for raids instead of being pigeon holed into Lethality. Getting DPS on par with other classes is and always will be first priority over any survivability buffs. This is the same reason Rage is not nerfed because PvE comes first. Period.
That's because, of all the specs in the game, it's probably the one most biased towards PvP. I haven't done a count by count analysis, but I say the tree has more PvP-friendly skills than any other. So it's in the dubious position of being the one spec literally built for PvP, and it can't PvP.

While I agree, Scrops are still tones of fun in PvE, I find myself usually having four of five skill points that are more or less wasted on irreverent (or at least mostly useless) skills.

Quote: Originally Posted by mulzii View Post
That being said, if they raise the dps up considerably, to where the best defense is a good offense, i'm fine with that.
This would be fine fine norms--heck it would be fantastic. It's really not that hard to go a whole WZ match without dying. And still (as things are now) do pretty good damage. It might even be okay if they'd put WZ back into solo rated queue.

It still wouldn't be viable for Arenas.
SWTOR PvP: now running on the Ellipsis engine.