Hi Everyone,

 

Over the past few weeks, we have been looking into your reports of lower level mods giving higher stats with bolster than Obroan gear. To test this, we checked the relative power of multiple gear sets against each other, which provides us with our “power differential” between players. We are currently shooting for about a 7% gap between bolstering and default Obroan mods, if you assume the same level of augments.

 

That said, we tested with a Lethality Sniper and found that there is about a 5% differential between Obroan and the bolstered lower level blue mods. This is with default Obroan mods, so there is some customization potential in the PvP gear that would further improve the gap. Both gear sets included Augments and a Power Crystal. Your results may vary depending on your class and specialization.

 

Bolster tends to favor pure power as a stat, so the lower blue mods WILL show higher bonus damage values vs default Obroan, which, in turn, grants slightly higher base damages on abilities at the sacrifice of other ratings and endurance. For example, with default Obroan, the Explosive Probe tooltip states it maxes at 3876 damage, while with the blue mods and bolster it tops out at 3915. However, Obroan has better alacrity (+0.06%), crit (+6.22%), and health (+343). In the end (and in a perfect rotation environment), the player wearing Obroan will win a duel.

 

So what we’re seeing is that, yes, if you’re willing to sacrifice other stats for damage output, these mods can be optimal for your play style. This is not our final design implementation and we are going to continue looking at the balance between default Obroan and bolster. However, we are currently okay with where it is, even being a bit less than the target. Do note that we are aware of an issue regarding Main Hand and Off-Hand gear when it comes to Expertise crystals vs. stat crystals, and are working on a solution. I don’t currently have an ETA for you, but will update you as I know more.

 

-tw

thanks for the update Tait, good to see a dev monitoring this. Also, yellow text in the pvp forums, like seeing a double rainbow!!!

 

Yes first to post!

Edited February 18, 2014 by Sangrar

Hi Everyone,

 

Over the past few weeks, we have been looking into your reports of lower level mods giving higher stats with bolster than Obroan gear. To test this, we checked the relative power of multiple gear sets against each other, which provides us with our “power differential” between players. We are currently shooting for about a 7% gap between bolstering and default Obroan mods, if you assume the same level of augments.

 

That said, we tested with a Lethality Sniper and found that there is about a 5% differential between Obroan and the bolstered lower level blue mods. This is with default Obroan mods, so there is some customization potential in the PvP gear that would further improve the gap. Both gear sets included Augments and a Power Crystal. Your results may vary depending on your class and specialization.

 

Bolster tends to favor pure power as a stat, so the lower blue mods WILL show higher bonus damage values vs default Obroan, which, in turn, grants slightly higher base damages on abilities at the sacrifice of other ratings and endurance. For example, with default Obroan, the Explosive Probe tooltip states it maxes at 3876 damage, while with the blue mods and bolster it tops out at 3915. However, Obroan has better alacrity (+0.06%), crit (+6.22%), and health (+343). In the end (and in a perfect rotation environment), the player wearing Obroan will win a duel.

 

So what we’re seeing is that, yes, if you’re willing to sacrifice other stats for damage output, these mods can be optimal for your play style. This is not our final design implementation and we are going to continue looking at the balance between default Obroan and bolster. However, we are currently okay with where it is, even being a bit less than the target. Do note that we are aware of an issue regarding Main Hand and Off-Hand gear when it comes to Expertise crystals vs. stat crystals, and are working on a solution. I don’t currently have an ETA for you, but will update you as I know more.

 

-tw

Tait the issue is not because of the crystal on MH/OH. It's the weapon damage associated with hilts/barrels. For most classes, that means most PvE hilt/barrel, with higher weapon damage than Obroan will be BiS....

Edited February 18, 2014 by L-RANDLE

Thank you for a clarification, whether or not it was right is a different matter, but thank you for at least trying.

Tait the issue is not because of the crystal on MH/OH. It's the weapon damage associated with hilts/barrels. For most classes, that means most PvE hilt/barrel, with higher weapon damage than Obroan will be BiS....

 

But the weapon damage gets bolstered on Obroan to the level of 78s. In a Warzone no PvE Hilt/Barrel has a higher weapons damage than Obroan.

Edited February 18, 2014 by gblXsw

However, we are currently okay with where it is

 

What a disappointment...

Wow, I didn't know you guys had so much free time to look into such a non consequential bug. It's not like almost every concealment op is complaining about the announced nerfs or anything, so I guess it is fine.

Wow, I didn't know you guys had so much free time to look into such a non consequential bug. It's not like almost every concealment op is complaining about the announced nerfs or anything, so I guess it is fine.

 

Well considering it affects every class and gives some insight on PvP gear vs. Bolster, I think that's a bit more important than your upcoming nerf.

Hi Everyone,

 

Over the past few weeks, we have been looking into your reports of lower level mods giving higher stats with bolster than Obroan gear. To test this, we checked the relative power of multiple gear sets against each other, which provides us with our “power differential” between players. We are currently shooting for about a 7% gap between bolstering and default Obroan mods, if you assume the same level of augments.

 

That said, we tested with a Lethality Sniper and found that there is about a 5% differential between Obroan and the bolstered lower level blue mods. This is with default Obroan mods, so there is some customization potential in the PvP gear that would further improve the gap. Both gear sets included Augments and a Power Crystal. Your results may vary depending on your class and specialization.

 

Bolster tends to favor pure power as a stat, so the lower blue mods WILL show higher bonus damage values vs default Obroan, which, in turn, grants slightly higher base damages on abilities at the sacrifice of other ratings and endurance. For example, with default Obroan, the Explosive Probe tooltip states it maxes at 3876 damage, while with the blue mods and bolster it tops out at 3915. However, Obroan has better alacrity (+0.06%), crit (+6.22%), and health (+343). In the end (and in a perfect rotation environment), the player wearing Obroan will win a duel.

 

So what we’re seeing is that, yes, if you’re willing to sacrifice other stats for damage output, these mods can be optimal for your play style. This is not our final design implementation and we are going to continue looking at the balance between default Obroan and bolster. However, we are currently okay with where it is, even being a bit less than the target. Do note that we are aware of an issue regarding Main Hand and Off-Hand gear when it comes to Expertise crystals vs. stat crystals, and are working on a solution. I don’t currently have an ETA for you, but will update you as I know more.

 

-tw

 

Thanks for the update on the issue Tait. I have a few questions though:

 

1. You say "both gear sets included a Power Crystals. How? Obroan only has Expertise crystals in it, and swappig it out nerfs our Expertise. Or am. I misreading what you said?

 

2. The issue is not about all the mods. It's just in the MH/OH, where the fact that level 46 blue weapons and PvE weaponse in a 69-63-61 combination get bolstered to full expertise, but because they have a +41 Power crystal, they get +18.86 bonus damage over Obroan, for only a minor loss in other stats. Has this issue been recognized and addressed?

But the weapon damage gets bolstered on Obroan to the level of 78s. In a Warzone no PvE Hilt/Barrel has a higher weapons damage than Obroan.

 

EXP doesn't affect tooltip ratings if power crystals were the problem you would only see 10HP differences, not 100-200HP.

 

The weapon damage on your stat sheet is not what I am talking about. Every MH/OH has a min/max damage rating that is not affected by bolster. As long as the PvE hilts/barrel is higher than Obroan, and you don't subject yourself to the bolster penalty, it will be BiS.

Well considering it affects every class and gives some insight on PvP gear vs. Bolster, I think that's a bit more important than your upcoming nerf.

 

It's non-consequential. Big deal some weapons give a bit more stats than their obroan counterpart, gear grinds gets a bit shorter and it is still useless in OWPvP. It doesn't break any classes or trees, just makes whiners who never liked bolster because they got butthurt by better players after it came out, whine louder. I would rather the devs spend more time handling ... idk bosnia's problems than something this small.

First of all, I want to say I am not normally this negative, but I think this is wrong. I am no expert on the bolster system, however I have used the voss MH/OH item modifications vs min/maxed obroan weapons and learned the following:

 

I guess I don't understand your reasoning being the "stat sacrifice" argument about the voss mods. With mix/maxing gear most classes take out alacrity anyway, so that part doesn't matter. Most gear sets come with too much crit so you take most of that out, and you DO NOT get more HP with obroan weapons than you do with MH/OH with voss mods, enh, hilts/barrels, augs + crystals. Players generally get approximately 2000 more health when running with Voss MH/OH than with obroan.

 

What annoys me is that we spend so much time grinding out the "best" weapons (obroan) and they aren't even as good as weapons you can make yourself at the minimal cost of a few planetary comms and a few credits. I am sorry, but a free buff should NEVER be on par with the top tier of gear. The argument of sacrificing stats using the voss mods does not make sense because the gain is tremendous and the loss is very minimal.

 

On top of this, when you say there is room for min/maxing your gear vs the voss mods to increase the gap, when you put the lower mods in you are choosing the same set of stats in i.e. power + surge, as you would in the obroan weapons. This is essentially min/maxing the voss weapons.

 

Out of that post all I really learned is that I don't need to spend my wz comms on weapons anytime in the near future.

EXP doesn't affect tooltip ratings if power crystals were the problem you would only see 10HP differences, not 100-200HP.

 

The weapon damage on your stat sheet is not what I am talking about. Every MH/OH has a min/max damage rating that is not affected by bolster. As long as the PvE hilts/barrel is higher than Obroan, and you don't subject yourself to the bolster penalty, it will be BiS.

 

The weapon rating is irrelevant for the bolster as it considers everything to be 175 (lvl 78) regardless of the actual hilt/barrel/armoring rating. The only difference comes in the stats. What makes PvE weapons better or at least as good as obroan, is the power crystals. If the bolster expertise crystals as if they are power, obroan weapons will be BiS.

1. You say "both gear sets included a Power Crystals. How? Obroan only has Expertise crystals in it, and swappig it out nerfs our Expertise. Or am. I misreading what you said?

 

2. The issue is not about all the mods. It's just in the MH/OH, where the fact that level 46 blue weapons and PvE weaponse in a 69-63-61 combination get bolstered to full expertise, but because they have a +41 Power crystal, they get +18.86 bonus damage over Obroan, for only a minor loss in other stats. Has this issue been recognized and addressed?

 

Great questions!

 

1. That was just poorly worded on my part - the Obroan used its default crystal and the Power crystals were in the non-Obroan sets we used. We tested with two non-Obroan gear sets to get the differentials.

 

2. This is where the crystal issue I mentioned comes into play. Bolster should be taking into consideration the crystal in the weapon when it adds stats, but it currently isn't and thus the MH/OH are bolstering improperly. This is why you see the bonus damage over Obroan.

Great questions!

 

1. That was just poorly worded on my part - the Obroan used its default crystal and the Power crystals were in the non-Obroan sets we used. We tested with two non-Obroan gear sets to get the differentials.

 

2. This is where the crystal issue I mentioned comes into play. Bolster should be taking into consideration the crystal in the weapon when it adds stats, but it currently isn't and thus the MH/OH are bolstering improperly. This is why you see the bonus damage over Obroan.

 

Thanks Tait. I appreciate you guys also present math this time around. And I do agree that the PvE weapons difference from PvP ones is inconsequential. It is still need to be addressed, but I agree it is not high priority.

With all due respect, you are absolutely wrong Tait. This is a WEAPON/OFFHAND issue only. Gear wise, Obroan is BIS. Simple question: Why does this not happen with the bolstered blue 48s? Why does this not happen with the purple 46s? This is a very specific mod/enhancement/barrel/hilt issue. It's only blue 46 - the 44s, 48s, 50s, etc do not scale as well. With blue 46, what you get is a significant increase in force/tech dmg at the expense of white damage - I'm talking almost 50 bonus damage. You also get about 2k MORE health, not less. Min/Max obroan weapons do not come close to BLUE 46 in terms of force/tech dmg. Blue 44? Not as good. Blue 48? Not as good. Purple 46? Not as good. I hope you see the trend here. If you deal primarily white damage (think marksmanship snipers), the blue 46s will be significantly detrimental. If you are a primarily force/tech AC (think sorcerers), blue 46 is BIS by a large margin. Edited February 18, 2014 by revcrisis

Thanks Tait. I appreciate you guys also present math this time around. And I do agree that the PvE weapons difference from PvP ones is inconsequential. It is still need to be addressed, but I agree it is not high priority.

 

So, the gear you need to grind out, save up for, win and loose over and over for are not BIS for its purpose; and that's not a high priority?

people are just trying to justify why they lose like i said before the difference is so minimal. I would leave it as is cause it allows crafters to get into the mix.

The weapon damage on your stat sheet is not what I am talking about. Every MH/OH has a min/max damage rating that is not affected by bolster. As long as the PvE hilts/barrel is higher than Obroan, and you don't subject yourself to the bolster penalty, it will be BiS.

 

Inside of Warzones an obroan 67 single handed Lightsaber has a weapons damage of 575-863. That's exactly the same as Dread Forged (78), even though it only has 445-668 outside of Warzones.

So, the gear you need to grind out, save up for, win and loose over and over for are not BIS for its purpose; and that's not a high priority?

 

Or use PvE ones and invest you PvP comms in other PvP pieces. If you already have the PvP ones you are not at a disadvantage anyway. PvE and PvP ones are around the same level. I understand it is frustrating to spend 3,500 RWZs comms and 1,500 WZs comms then learn that other cheap gear can perform around the same level, but at the same time, I would rather have the devs focus their attention on class balance and more content instead of putting priority to fix something that does not hinder the game play experience.

Inside of Warzones an obroan 67 single handed Lightsaber has a weapons damage of 575-863. That's exactly the same as Dread Forged (78), even though it only has 445-668 outside of Warzones.

 

That's stat sheet, in a WZ.

Mouseover on the actual weapon and look at the min/max damage between the two. They are very different.

 

This issue is that weapon damage calc on attacks happens without any bolster considerations. Most static min/max damage on PvE weapons are higher than Obroan.

 

This is why 46 isn't an exploit. The max damage on these weapons is half of what Obroan is, which means its a big nerf for almost all DPS classes..

When did 1 vs 1 become real PVP?

When did 1 vs 1 become real PVP?

 

when it's convenient to prove a "point", or (hopefully) shut people up.

 

Tait,

If I write a full response with screenshots tonight, will you respond?

Tait,

If I write a full response with screenshots tonight, will you respond?

 

I will certainly read it, but I can't promise a response - at least not right away. What I can promise to do is pass along your exact mods/equipment to the combat team so that they can recreate your gear and look at the numbers. This can certainly help us narrow down any bugs in the mods that weren't found during these past few weeks.