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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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And I do not mean the same copy paste message that gets thrown onto every topic that discusses this, I mean no offense to the admins but a bit of clarification would be nice.

 

Things to clarify:

 

1 - A rough eta on same sex relationships (flirting ect) Were not after a nailed down etched in stone, be all end all date, Just a rough idea. A week/Month maybe 3 ect ?

 

2 - Those that happen to pick the "wrong" gender at creation are currently missing out with regards to there story arc, In my example Female sentinel missing out with Kira. There are 2 ways I see to fix this.

 

2a - Re-write those sections to include the same options for both genders and allow players already past to "Redo" there conversations. (Bit difficult and a lot of reworking)

 

2b - Create equivalent content for same gender romance at level 50 (or once the CURRENT story arc is finished) So by the end of it EVERYONE has had the same options REGARDLESS of the gender they chose.

 

3 - This is more of a given I think, but will there be more customization options for your companions. For example something to just change your companions hair color or skin tone. (I say its a given because its something so obvious that can be expanded upon and require very little work)

 

These are the questions to the Developers.

 

My question to the forum baring in mind we already know more companions are coming with these options enabled already.

 

Witch do you prefer option 2a or option 2b ?

 

Ps - Due to threads being closed due to flame wars ect, please keep it civil and just ignore/report those that attempt to start one, And please stay on topic. I will update a count of witch is preferred every 2 days or so. (WTB poll option)

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------Reserved for poll results

 

Witch is preferred option 2a or 2b in the above post.

 

I THINK ITS A LANDSLIDE VICTORY

 

Option 2a - 24

 

Option 2b - 7

 

Option 3 - 1

It has come to my attention that there appears to be a THIRD option so I am Including it here rather than the main post.

 

OPTION 3 (Its all becomes clear please read)

 

 

FIRST - At the character creation screen, just after you select your gender you get to pick your ROMANCE PREFERENCE.

 

Straight - Male > Female or Male > Female, romance options (You can ONLY romance the opposite sex)

 

Bi - Male > Male, Female > Female, Male > Female, Female > Male, (You can romance ANYONE that is romancable)

 

Homosexual/Lesbian - Male > Male, Female > Female. (Only those of the same sex)

 

Asexual (I think thats the right word) - No Romance options ever appear.

 

 

SECONDLY - Make EVERY single romancable companion BISEXUAL, This is crucial for this to work and you will see why in a moment.

 

THIRDLY - When the romance options normally appear the game does a quick check to see the characters preference and acts accordingly.

 

FORTH and FINAL - Reset EVERY ONES companion quests to the beginning, Not only would this put EVERYONE on the same page, But also allow those that wish to to record (using fraps or whatever) there own little companion story if they wish.

 

 

Unless I am very much mistaken Very little or even No dialog actually need to change, (Unless there is specific gender references any of the conversations. (ie one calling the other boy/guy or girl/woman. And even if there is it would take all of what 2 min to record an appropriate line.

 

 

This allows....

 

Those that do not wish to "See" the options able to toggle them off at creation, Or heck they can get rid of the romances altogether if they so desire.

 

------------Witch ones---------------

 

It has come to my attention that there are some people that belive only certain ones should be Bi/gay so simple question witch ones. (Ill try to keep up with you lot :p)

 

Kira Carsen

Doc

Zenith

LT Iresso

Theran Cedrex

Nadia Grell

Andronikus Revel

Ashara Zavros

Vette

Jaesa Willsaam

Malavi Quinn

LT Pierce

Aric Jorgan

Elara Dorne

Corso Riggs

Risha

Alcavi Spaar

Mako

Torian Caldera

Kaliyo Djannis

Vector Hyllis

Ensign Raia Temple

 

Take from http://www.hotrodacc.com/swtor/comp.html, If I missed one let me know.

 

Vote away.

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  • 1 month later...

Greetings everyone!

 

Please remember, this thread is for discussing the how and when of implementation of same-gender romances in Star Wars™: The Old Republic™. Please keep discussions game related! Discussions regarding real life politics, morality and religion do not belong in this thread or anywhere else on the forums. All replies must be on-topic, constructive and respectful or they will be removed.

 

Our official statement:

 

Official statement follows:

Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options.

As a gentle reminder to everyone, please remember the following:

Insults - Please do not resort to or use them in any way in your posts. Posts should be productive, not destructive.

Trolling - Please do not post messages that are purposefully designed to provoke, antagonize, or otherwise elicit a negative emotional response.

Agree to Disagree - Be respectful of others' viewpoints even if they are opposite of your own. Discuss disagreements constructively.

Flag, Don't Fight - Utilize the Flag Post feature to report possible rules violations, rather than responding to or fighting them.

Ignoring - If you feel you simply cannot get along with another community member, please place them on your ignore list.

 

The previous version, which reached the 1,000 post threshold, may be found here.

 

For anyone who wishes to discuss [Flirt] options, please do know that we also have a thread for that discussion in the Suggestion Box.

 

Thank you!

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Woo! Fresh thread! Fresh start!

 

Now all we need to do is have the developers look in and talk to us.

 

EDIT: As per request I'm adding the infamous StephenReid quotes relevant to this conversation. Please read them; they're the only conclusive quotes we have to draw from and we received them in September 2011.

 

"Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options."

 

"First of all, this is definitely not an audience that consists of a 'couple of people' and we're aware of that. We take this decision very seriously.

 

"Second, it's very important to realize that this is just one of many, many content additions that will be going into the game post launch. The vast majority of our content will be of interest to the vast majority of our potential audience.

 

"However, one of the amazing things about MMOs is that over time we can get to add things that are exciting and interesting to smaller audiences. Normally, that's not something that's addressed too far ahead of time. In this case, we felt the addition was warranted and should be addressed early.

 

"There will be plenty of content for all to play and enjoy."

 

"We can't guarantee that a character you play at launch would have romance options 'unlocked' for an existing companion. It's something that will be taken into consideration when making design decisions. Not a promise it'll happen, but we'll take that feedback and relay it through to design.

 

"We fully intend to do justice to the story in our storylines. [biggrin]

 

"As you may have heard, we take story very seriously - this included.

 

"Lastly for those of you who seem concerned that you will be 'tricked' into any romance arc in the game - all romance choices are clearly marked. You will be aware you're making those choices as you make them."

 

EDIT: Update with the information from the Guild Summit:

 

Q: Any update on same gender romance?

Daniel: It is coming and it is coming with story updates. It is something that depends on the writers and we want to do right, and writers have a long lead time. We did not want to just change all the dialogue for the other gender. That is not writing, that is not story telling. This was cut originally because of budget and time issues. We have designs, we know what romance options we want to put in for this. It is coming when full story comes, and full story is coming this year. We are still on track.

Edited by Kioma
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Well, I do hope we will hear something in the Q&A but I hardly expect to. Even if we don't, I think it helps to keep bringing the question back there. Yes, it stirs up community backlash, but it also keeps the question very much at the attention of the development team.

 

Also, is anyone here in touch with anyone going to the Guild Summit in Austin? That may be another opportunity to ask.

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106 pages last time. lets start fresh here and keep a positive attitude!

 

Hello Everyone,

 

We have recently removed a number of posts (and responses to those posts) discussing toggles for same gender romances in Star Wars™: The Old Republic™.

 

Discussion of the implementation of toggles to filter same gender romance options is considered discriminatory language and is neither appropriate nor allowed on the forums. Posts along this vein of discussion will be removed.

 

As a gentle reminder: This thread is for the discussion of the how and when of implementation of same gender romances. Please stay constructive, on topic, and be kind to your fellow forum members. If you see someone who is breaking the forum rules, do not respond; please flag their post and the Community Team will investigate. Flag, don't fight!

 

If you have any questions, concerns, or feedback, please do not hesitate to email communitysupport@swtor.com.

 

Thank you for your efforts to keep this discussion constructive and respectful.

 

 

 

If you are coming here to pick a fight please don't.

If you are open to a reasonable discussion please join.

 

This thread isn't about do or do not have Same sex relations in game, it's about how and when it will be added. No at this time we don't have a date yet.

 

Originally Posted by sparklecat

Person A: Why are you asking for this content, it's not even in Star Wars canonically!

 

Person B: Yes it is, you'll find examples here and here.

 

A: ...Is that it? Well, that's almost nothing and it doesn't really count, anyway. Besides, it doesn't matter if it's canon or not, what matters is that this issue isn't at all important next to all the other problems. The focus should be on fixing the game first.

 

B: Have we mentioned that it's different teams handling bugfixes to content updates?

 

A: Well, what makes your request so much more important than everyone else's? Why should, like, the 5% of the players who want this content be given priority over everything else which will appeal to a much larger percentage? How arrogant do you have to be to demand you should get what you want before they do?

 

B: First of all, we're not demanding immediate implementation, nor that everything else be put on hold so SGRAs can be developed first. We're asking for information on roughly when it's expected and how it might be implemented, because that affects how we play our characters right now. Secondly, MMOs in general have a wide range of features to appeal to different groups, some quite niche, all of whom naturally focus their requests and questions on what interests them, without adding caveats to the tune of "but this other group I'm not at all interested in has some things they want too, please put those in as well!"

 

A: What do you need more information for, anyway? The game's barely been launched, and lots of people aren't getting their questions answered. Bioware isn't under any obligation to answer your questions, so stop asking.

 

B: Bioware's customer service has encouraged us to continue asking and providing feedback. As well, the last we've heard on the subject was roughly five months ago; we don't need every possible detail, but any sort of update would help with what's really become the biggest issue here - that we're feeling ignored.

 

A: Just because they're not answering you doesn't mean there's some sort of anti-gay conspiracy. You know, you're turning off a lot of people who might otherwise support you with your conspiracy theories and "Help, help, I'm being repressed!" refrain.

 

B: Forgive those of us who are a little sensitive to the possibility that we're encountering prejudice; a necessary hazard when you're dealing with any minority group that *has* encountered such, I'm afraid. But the point is, we've encountered some very bad customer service - not from the individual customer service representatives, who are lovely people and are restricted in what they can say, but from the developers, in not addressing something that has a significant impact on people's games and their ability to play their characters. Even to say "we're still planning to include this/it's currently under development/we don't anticipate this will be in for some time" would be better than complete silence.

 

A: Why even bother still asking, then, if it doesn't do any good? You're spamming the Q&A thread with it, and it's getting annoying. Just leave if you're so unhappy.

 

B: Some have. Others have their own reasons for staying, too many to go into in one hypothetical conversation. But as I said, we've been encouraged to continue asking, and I for one intend to continue doing so, because I've got a lot of fondness for Bioware and am enjoying the game, this aside. I just think they're making a bad choice in remaining silent, and that the best thing I can do is apply pressure to try and change their mind. No customer deserves to be ignored when it comes to something they were promised and want some information on.

 

 

 

 

Did I hit all the major points?

 

 

 

Oh, right.

 

 

A: What about a tog- :mad:

Edited by Xeres_Ajani
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*wanders around setting up little Blizz plushies here and there*

 

I just started a new female BH last night, and once again had to just sigh and kick a rock across the room when I couldn't outright flirt with Juda, despite her acting kind of flirty towards me.

 

My little noobie powertech-to-be needs a girlfriend!

Edited by LyriaFrost
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Would be nice if folks could make a better attempt not to engage the trolls this time around, though I know it will inevitably happen. /shrug

 

Well, everyone get your question ready to post in the new Q&A thread. :rolleyes: Copy this one if you don't feel eloquent:

 

"With Bioware Co-Founder Ray Muzyka's recent interview comments that same gender romances are "part of the expectation of a Bioware game", what is the current status of this content being implemented into SW:TOR, how is it being implemented (either all new companions or including existing romance options), and what is the expected timetable for implementation?"

 

I think we should also petition the mods that when they post that 6 month old quote about including same gender romance content that they should also have to include the quotes from Ray and Greg about the expectations of a Bioware game.

Edited by Nozybidaj
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Just copying this over from the SG Flirts thread, as it is applicable here as well after seeing the last couple pages of the previous thread.

 

I can see now why the mods closed the toggle thread. To choke up all the same gender content threads with useless discussion. Where as before we could at least actually discuss the topics of the threads around the noise and have a bit of unification in the voices requesting this content, now it is all side discussion from pro-toggle people about the offensiveness of the content and how selfish people are even for asking for it. :rolleyes:

 

I can't help but wonder if that was the intention of the mods all along for closing that thread, to help drown out the GLBT community on the forum. If it was it is certainly working.

Edited by Nozybidaj
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Rolling this out preemptively.

 

Person A: Why are you asking for this content, it's not even in Star Wars canonically!

 

Person B: Yes it is, you'll find examples here and here.

 

A: ...Is that it? Well, that's almost nothing and it doesn't really count, anyway. Besides, it doesn't matter if it's canon or not, what matters is that this issue isn't at all important next to all the other problems. The focus should be on fixing the game first.

 

B: Have we mentioned that it's different teams handling bugfixes to content updates?

 

A: Well, what makes your request so much more important than everyone else's? Why should, like, the 5% of the players who want this content be given priority over everything else which will appeal to a much larger percentage? How arrogant do you have to be to demand you should get what you want before they do?

 

B: First of all, we're not demanding immediate implementation, nor that everything else be put on hold so SGRAs can be developed first. We're asking for information on roughly when it's expected and how it might be implemented, because that affects how we play our characters right now. Secondly, MMOs in general have a wide range of features to appeal to different groups, some quite niche, all of whom naturally focus their requests and questions on what interests them, without adding caveats to the tune of "but this other group I'm not at all interested in has some things they want too, please put those in as well!"

 

A: What do you need more information for, anyway? The game's barely been launched, and lots of people aren't getting their questions answered. Bioware isn't under any obligation to answer your questions, so stop asking.

 

B: Bioware's customer service has encouraged us to continue asking and providing feedback. As well, the last we've heard on the subject was roughly five months ago; we don't need every possible detail, but any sort of update would help with what's really become the biggest issue here - that we're feeling ignored.

 

A: Just because they're not answering you doesn't mean there's some sort of anti-gay conspiracy. You know, you're turning off a lot of people who might otherwise support you with your conspiracy theories and "Help, help, I'm being repressed!" refrain.

 

B: Forgive those of us who are a little sensitive to the possibility that we're encountering prejudice; a necessary hazard when you're dealing with any minority group that *has* encountered such, I'm afraid. But the point is, we've encountered some very bad customer service - not from the individual customer service representatives, who are lovely people and are restricted in what they can say, but from the developers, in not addressing something that has a significant impact on people's games and their ability to play their characters. Even to say "we're still planning to include this/it's currently under development/we don't anticipate this will be in for some time" would be better than complete silence.

 

A: Why even bother still asking, then, if it doesn't do any good? You're spamming the Q&A thread with it, and it's getting annoying. Just leave if you're so unhappy.

 

B: Some have. Others have their own reasons for staying, too many to go into in one hypothetical conversation. But as I said, we've been encouraged to continue asking, and I for one intend to continue doing so, because I've got a lot of fondness for Bioware and am enjoying the game, this aside. I just think they're making a bad choice in remaining silent, and that the best thing I can do is apply pressure to try and change their mind. No customer deserves to be ignored when it comes to something they were promised and want some information on.

 

 

 

 

Did I hit all the major points?

 

 

 

Oh, right.

 

 

A: What about a tog-

 

B: :(

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Yay another new home :D

 

What's the move-speed now? Once a fortnight or so? Reminds me of my youth hehe.

 

Anyhoo, this is actually the first week I haven't ben stressing to muchh about the Q&A - Mass Effect 3 pre-order woes (Gamestation boo! Play.com to the rescue yay! )and shiney smexy new launch trailer (seriously, epic is not the word :eek: ) has kept me relatively busy.

 

As a general SWTOR relationship thought, I've found it a real shame that the friend/rivalry system from DA2 hasn't been used here. I understand it would no doubt be a lot more work for the writers/coders, but would have been a nice feature.

 

I really loved the fact that we could change the comapnions' outlook over the course of the game, Isabela's rival-romance is the most satisfying for me - despite the constant taunts about my Hawke's hair hehe.

 

From a characterisation point of view I think it was far more realistic than the usual 'love the hero no matter what' approach. Bastila denouncing my female Revan (LOVE that mod, and thanks to Bioware for letting us use it) for going darkside on a vendor then snogging her face off as soon as they got back to the ship, while immensely amusing, was less satsifying than showing a previously selfish/irresponisble pirate queen that she really could be a good person. (That and I can just imagine how Isabela falling for the selfless yet snarky knight in shining armour that was LadyHawke would drive her nuts :D)

 

Even, suggested by a previous poster, the occasional 'Why the heck did you do that?' type of comment from our companions would go a long way to breathing a little more lif into the relationships, platonic or otherwise.

 

Aaand that's my brain drained for the day :cool:

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Rolling this out preemptively.

 

I appreciate the effort, but the people trolling and disrupting the threads don't actually care about the answers, they simply want to disrupt the thread for nothing but the sake of doing so.

 

It is best if everyone would simply not reply to them. They'll eventually loose interest and stop if we do so.

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It is best if everyone would simply not reply to them. They'll eventually loose interest and stop if we do so.

 

If you do feel the need to reply, the best thing to do would be copypaste something like the following(could be edited to add more links, etc.):

 

Hello, this topic has been brought up in the past. Please read through these threads
and
first. If you still believe you have something
constructive
to add to the discussion then by all means do so, but don't expect a response if it has been brought up before.

 

Thanks

 

Also remember, for the nastier trolls: flag, don't fight!

 

EDIT: lol apparently the code tags didn't do what I thought...

Edited by emusan
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It may be a good time to remind people - try not to get into fights on the Q&A discussion thread, even if it's tempting. People are probably going to call us out again, but there's really not much point in arguing anymore.
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Ok I'm not sure how to say this without sounding petty and unappreciative, because it makes me happy that you guys are quoting my post! But you're also getting the smiley at the end wrong, which is being wrong, and that makes me sad and upset :(

 

 

(it is the :mad: smiley if you were wondering and yes I am a little strange sometimes, I'm so sorry)

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It may be a good time to remind people - try not to get into fights on the Q&A discussion thread, even if it's tempting. People are probably going to call us out again, but there's really not much point in arguing anymore.

 

I agree there isn't much point to arguing, but if you are going to doing it anyway, doing it there is better than doing it here at least. :D

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If and when Bioware adds Same sex romance I wouldn't expect a huge choice of companions to hook up with.... My BH only has one option and thats Mako....

 

People thinking that Bioware is going to let them flirt with EVERYONE of your companions is going to be very disappointed....

 

Odds are gay romance options won't happen until the first expansion when they introduce some new companions and given what I've seen so far with the existing romance options your probably only going to get 1 bi-sexual companion to flirt with per class... So those thinking Bioware is going to put in some elaborate romance system were you can seduce anyone on your ship including the original 5 companions is dreaming...

Edited by Moitteva
removed discriminatory language/covered under latest warning
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If and when Bioware adds Same sex romance I wouldn't expect a huge choice of companions to hook up with.... My BH only has one option and thats Mako....

 

People thinking that Bioware is going to let them flirt with EVERYONE of your companions is going to be very disappointed....

 

No one's asking for that? We just want to be able to flirt with the current romance options that are of the same gender.

 

Odds are gay romance options won't happen until the first expansion when they introduce some new companions and given what I've seen so far with the existing romance options your probably only going to get 1 bi-sexual companion to flirt with per class... So those thinking Bioware is going to put in some elaborate romance system were you can seduce anyone on your ship including the original 5 companions is dreaming...

 

We don't know when they're implementing it, that's the point of this thread. For the second half of your paragraph, see above response.

Edited by Moitteva
removed discriminatory language/toggles
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This is a popular theme ("the toggle") and although it has been hashed to death here I am going to hash it some more. This is meant as a general response to everyone who wants a toggle.

 

What people are saying, by wanting a toggle, is that same-gender romance is so awful, so icky, so destructive, that they need a way for it to be hidden.

 

By requesting a toggle, they are explicitly stating that they believe that same-gender romance is a greater evil than: lying, stealing, betrayal of trust, slavery, torture, torture for pleasure, poisoning someone, poisoning many people at once, murder, mass murder, murder for hire, genocide, etc. All of these choices are in the game right now, with no way to avoid seeing them.

 

That is why the toggle idea is offensive.

 

There are three major fallacies brought up by the pro-toggle crowd I'd like to address.

 

1. Just toggle all romance

Opposite-gender romance is already part of the game without a toggle. As others have said here, wanting to toggle all romance is just a way to ask for a toggle for SGRAs while maintaining a veneer of respectability. No one wanted a romance toggle prior to the SGRA debate. Asking for one now betrays the fact that you don't want SGRAs, and think that this is an acceptable way to say so.

 

2. You're putting your social issues into the game

Asking for both types of romance to be dealt with in the exact same way is not pushing anyone's agenda. Opposite gender romance is in the game. Same gender romance would merely level the playing field. I would argue that asking for it to be hidden once it is implemented is the real example of forcing your social morality into the game.

 

3. It doesn't belong in Star Wars

Not only are there previous examples of such relationships in Star Wars, it would not matter if there weren't. This game has every right to add to existing Star Wars canon, and has done so liberally, just as it's predecessors have done. One variant of this is the "no romance belongs in Star Wars", which is a ridiculous statement on it's own, and for which I refer you to #1.

 

I doubt this will convince anyone to change sides. For what it is worth, I suggested at one point what was effectively a toggle, and while it was primarily for storyline reasons rather than "hide it from the phobics" reasons, the discussion here has shown me why that is not a good idea, and I no longer support any sort of toggle.

 

TL;DR: Asking for a toggle is offensive. I have yet to see a rational reason why same-gender romance should be handled any differently than the currently implemented opposite-gender romance.

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No one's asking for that? We just want to be able to flirt with the current romance options that are of the same gender.

.

 

I just don't see Bioware going through the expense and time to redo existing content to appease and lets be honest a smaller portion of the player base....

 

Plus you "might" have to deal with some of the original actors who don't want their voices used in a gay romance situation.... Now with new companions Bioware can find actors who have no issue with this...

 

So like I said, I wouldn't expect anything until the first expansion....

 

But like you said it's all speculation for now... but thats my best guess based on what I know....

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I just don't see Bioware going through the expense and time to redo existing content to appease and lets be honest a smaller portion of the player base....

 

So LGBT Gamers are a 'smaller portion' of a BIOWARE gaming community? please.

Also, you are assuming, wrongly, that only LGBT gamers would use this content, many other groups would to.

 

Plus you "might" have to deal with some of the original actors who don't want their voices used in a gay romance situation.... Now with new companions Bioware can find actors who have no issue with this...

 

Really? ...really?

 

So like I said, I wouldn't expect anything until the first expansion....

 

Stephen Reid stated otherwise.

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