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Incendiary grenade, oh how you are misunderstood.


Renita

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I realize I already posted this in heretics guide to sab but I wanted to start a new thread that mainly focuses on incendiary grenade.

 

Incendiary grenade is my favorite ability in pvp. Here are a few of its amazing uses.

 

1. instant interrupt to enemies trying to cap a node, even without having line of site. For example, I am able to place it just off to the back side of the node in Alderaan and it hits my target, even though I can't hit him with anything else, do to the line of site caused by the node.

 

2. place it on yourself when defending a node to make it difficult for a stealthy to sneak up on you giving them the upper hand. Note you will only have a split second to either push the stealthy back, stun them, or hit hunkerdown before they get to you so you have to pay attention.

 

3. place it on yourself when fighting melee to increase damage/deter melee from wanting to fight you

 

4. use it with shockcharge to instantly stun your target for 2 seconds

 

5. It slows opponents in it by 50%, this can be used as an aoe slow, but it also ensures that even if your target(s) move out of it, they will take some upfront damage. The spell is front loaded so more damage is taken in the beginning of it duration so this mechanic is very helpful in getting a lot of dps out of this ability even in pvp

 

6. The best part about the ability is that its duration and cooldown are both 18 seconds so you can have it up 100% of the time.

 

This ability is the main reason that I continue to return to the sab spec, even though the ss and df full specs and hybrids can bring a lot of dps and utility to pvp. I want to stress that I am not saying that sab spec is the "best" spec for pvp. Because I think the "best" spec for pvp is going to be the one you enjoy and play the best. I am simply trying to say that a full sab spec is amazing in pvp and so often misunderstood. It's not actually about doing massive dps when your opponents clump up together, its about constantly being able to interrupt multiple people attempting to cap a node and increased survivability.

 

And to just say a few words about riot screen and blazing speed since these talents often deter people from going full sab spec in pvp: The best part about riot screen in pvp is not the reduced cooldown on scrambling field, although that is nice, its that you take 6% less damage while in cover. Blazing speed also provides me with an extra 1000 dmg (non-crit) on my target. In pvp this could easily be the difference between your targets life and death, especially as they run out of your range with speed boost, or if you get rooted/cc'd.

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It's strongest feature in PVP is definitely the fact that you can use it to keep groups of enemies off doors in Voidstar, or from capping in another warzone; the same reason why Freighter Flyby and skills like Death From Above are so useful.
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I agree wholehearted. Although I think your post may still promote misunderstanding about it, as most people will only see it's value for preventing caps.

 

It is very underrated for general use. I use it on almost every pvp target that I intend to kill, but it is also invaluable at choke points (snares anyone walking through it 50%), such as in void-star.

 

Most rounds I use florish->Shock C.->Incendiary G.->Sab. C.->speed shot (love Blazing Speed). At this point Quick Draw is normally available to finish the kill. (inserting any cc abilities where needed)

 

I respecc'ed many times between full SS and full Sab. I like the 3 speed shots in a row you get with ss, but that burst can only be use every 1.5 mins.

 

The burst from full Sab can be used every 30 seconds, and based on the health left on other players, I think the Sab burst sequence is almost as powerful as SS. (Blazing speed + contingency charges is very underrated - amazing burst)

Edited by Culhaven
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To address the comments above. Flyby is not instant, has a short duration with a long cool down, It does not slow or stun targets, and costs more energy. Flyby is much less effective in pvp than incendiary grenade, although it can be useful to prevent capping or to give cover to someone capping from all the smoke and fire. Or to kill enemies who group up together, something that happens less in the level 50 bracket.

 

To address any misunderstands about my initial post. Only my first point states that it can be used to prevent capping directly. The other 5 points address some of its many other uses. In addition, I do not mean that these are the only uses, just a few of my favorites.

 

Two additional uses are it can be used to pop a stealth out of hiding, and it can be used to provide extra damage when you're trying to protect a team member such as a healer who is being ganged up on. Again, these are some of incendiary grenades many uses.

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I thought of giving sab a try too i just can't imagine it being more viable then DF or SS in PvP.

 

I currently prefer DF tho.

 

You may could make an example video of you using sab spec? Doesn't has to show decent skill but a demonstration on how things look like compared to SS or DF.

 

Tho i may better try it out myself. Saw some horrible DF vids allready which would have never convinced me to pick that spec ^^.

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I just gave it a try on the target dummy first.

 

I tested my previous DF spec and then the Sab spec i could think of my own. Tested on a dummy first ofc. Every test lasted 3 mins (no relics nor adrenals nor anything else which i don't use in PvP as my standard rotation in every fight just like XS freighter)

 

With DF i had 1386 DPS.

 

With Sab i had 1439 DPS. And that was without any actual clue how my rotation should look like. So why did i do more DPS with sab then? I just found i didn't had any energy problems at all unlike with DF.

 

I'll give it a try in PvP now. Totally enjoyed my first matches so far.

Edited by silvershadez
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To address any misunderstands about my initial post. Only my first point states that it can be used to prevent capping directly. The other 5 points address some of its many other uses. In addition, I do not mean that these are the only uses, just a few of my favorites. .

 

Yes, I know you wrote it correctly, I was more interpreting the responses so far.

 

Knowing how many people read posts, they tend to stop reading/comprehending once they get past the part that covers their preconceived understanding of how it works.

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IG is great for trolling the other team. Because it's instant and you can keep it up literally 100% of the time, they simply can't cap until they kill you. Plus, as you say, it's the only real stealth detector we get.

 

However, full sab lets you burst individual targets once every 30s. This is really, really suboptimal for collapsing multiple links in a decently-ordered defense. Yeah, you can pressure them all with AOE and VS spam, but someone *else* on the team has to be the burst killer. It's not gonna be you.

 

It's an amusing change of pace, but I think I'm going back to 32/6/3 if/when the Imps on our server get their act together again.

Edited by flem
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However, full sab lets you burst individual targets once every 30s. This is really, really suboptimal for collapsing multiple links in a decently-ordered defense. Yeah, you can pressure them all with AOE and VS spam, but someone *else* on the team has to be the burst killer. It's not gonna be you.

 

I am not quite sure what you feel you are gaining from a full SS in this scenario of yours. You can burst individual targets (in SS) once every 90s for a little more over all damage. Trickshot is nice cheap damage, but it does not turn the tide of anything. Energy regen is better, but I rarely have energy problems in Sab.

 

I think it just come down to the style you enjoy playing. I feel more in control and overall more effective in pvp, with a full Sab. build.

 

I love having the option to "out survive" just about any 1 on 1 fight, when I have sabotage off cd and can chain 2x improve defense screens and 2x cool heads w/ 6% heals each. (tip use the cool head heal right after poping rakata medpac for a little extra boost) This is on top of the 6% damage reduction while in cover.

 

Using the 2x cool heads also gives you a second string of bust because you can chain cast charge burst without running out of energy.

Edited by Culhaven
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I am not quite sure what you feel you are gaining from a full SS in this scenario of yours. You can burst individual targets (in SS) once every 90s for a little more over all damage. Trickshot is nice cheap damage, but it does not turn the tide of anything.
Incorrect. With the Deadeye points, Trickshot and Quickdraw crits are awfully close to Aimed Shot crits. And the 5k+ Aimed Shots come in 1.5s (or less, with Burst Volley up), not 2.5 endless seconds. And Sabo Charge is freed to become an awesome burst stacker.

 

Active Sabo defense talents are nice, but when all the melee love to gang up on you, Holed Up lets you laugh at their Smash attempts.

 

As you say, it's a matter of style, and I just incline more to SS.

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I am not dissing SS in any way. I prefer it in pve. The math certainly favors it.

 

But I evaluate effectiveness of builds more from a "last man standing" philosophy and from my experience and "style", I kill more and die less in pvp with full Saboteur. But most of all I have more fun doing it.

 

I do miss using Aimed shot and am putting some effort into incorporating it more with Sab.

 

I am testing moving 2 pts. from No Holds Barred to Sharp Aim and have a keyboard macro that activates both my second relic, which is Alacrity + Illegal Mods + Aimed Shot. This gives me a 1.73 activation time.

Edited by Culhaven
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I want to reiterate that this thread is not about saying that full sab is the "best" pvp spec, it is just extremely useful. I mainly started this thread because up until recently I never saw anyone other than me using incendiary grenade on either side in pvp on my server, and I am a frequent pvper, (average 10+ matches per day). There is now just one other full sab gunslinger using incendiary grenade in pvp on my server as far as I can tell.

 

When I looked to the forums there was little discussion on full sab spec, and most of it was negative. Therefore, my goal is to get people to try it out, see if they enjoy the play style and know that it is as viable as the other 2 specs and/or their hybrids. So test out all your trees and abilities over time, respec prices reset every week so don't be afraid. Find the spec that works best for you with the talents that you enjoy and utilize the most.

 

After all the best spec to play in pvp is the one you enjoy the most. You will play it better simply because you are having fun.

 

Furthermore, you pay to play, so HAVE FUN!

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I want to reiterate that this thread is not about saying that full sab is the "best" pvp spec, it is just extremely useful. I mainly started this thread because up until recently I never saw anyone other than me using incendiary grenade on either side in pvp on my server, and I am a frequent pvper, (average 10+ matches per day). There is now just one other full sab gunslinger using incendiary grenade in pvp on my server as far as I can tell.

 

When I looked to the forums there was little discussion on full sab spec, and most of it was negative. Therefore, my goal is to get people to try it out, see if they enjoy the play style and know that it is as viable as the other 2 specs and/or their hybrids. So test out all your trees and abilities over time, respec prices reset every week so don't be afraid. Find the spec that works best for you with the talents that you enjoy and utilize the most.

 

After all the best spec to play in pvp is the one you enjoy the most. You will play it better simply because you are having fun.

 

Furthermore, you pay to play, so HAVE FUN!

probably more of a server population issue rather than anything.

cause i'm also the only one using incendiary grenade/plasma probe on my server whenever i'm on. sad really, cause it's one of those classes that having another one alongside would greatly increase your effectiveness.

Edited by Wesgile
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I want to reiterate that this thread is not about saying that full sab is the "best" pvp spec, it is just extremely useful. I mainly started this thread because up until recently I never saw anyone other than me using incendiary grenade on either side in pvp on my server, and I am a frequent pvper, (average 10+ matches per day). There is now just one other full sab gunslinger using incendiary grenade in pvp on my server as far as I can tell.

 

When I looked to the forums there was little discussion on full sab spec, and most of it was negative. Therefore, my goal is to get people to try it out, see if they enjoy the play style and know that it is as viable as the other 2 specs and/or their hybrids. So test out all your trees and abilities over time, respec prices reset every week so don't be afraid. Find the spec that works best for you with the talents that you enjoy and utilize the most.

 

After all the best spec to play in pvp is the one you enjoy the most. You will play it better simply because you are having fun.

 

Furthermore, you pay to play, so HAVE FUN!

 

Sorry, did not mean to misdirect your thread.

 

It's funny, I am totally committed to using Incendiary Grenade in pvp, and I felt the same way you did.

 

Once I started using it, I realized that I never saw it being used. I found this to be somewhat of an advantage because it seems like other people have not experienced it and don't know how to react to it.

 

As you have already indicated, it is fun to cast in on yourself after applying sab. charge to some melee beating on you. If you have the defensive cooldowns I described before, you can just set there in cover and kill almost any melee standing in your fire.

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probably more of a server population issue rather than anything.

cause i'm also the only one using incendiary grenade/plasma probe on my server whenever i'm on. sad really, cause it's one of those classes that having another one alongside would greatly increase your effectiveness.

 

I am on the ebon hawk server and we have a pretty good pvp community. I just see a lot of ss specs on both sides, with a few df, to be honest they may be hybrids as I can't see their specs. I see a lot of people using diversion in pvp, but as stated earlier, not incendiary grenade.

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I am on the ebon hawk server and we have a pretty good pvp community. I just see a lot of ss specs on both sides, with a few df, to be honest they may be hybrids as I can't see their specs. I see a lot of people using diversion in pvp, but as stated earlier, not incendiary grenade.

and that's the other thing.

if a lot of people played sharpshooter, people would probably get diversion just so you can counter a lot of them.

which is a catch-22 in itself...

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and that's the other thing.

if a lot of people played sharpshooter, people would probably get diversion just so you can counter a lot of them.

which is a catch-22 in itself...

 

While diversion is good in pvp it is not essential. I think it's best used to create a leap target for a teammate or as a defensive move, a good player will try to line of sight you until the duration wears off, using the abilities they can do while on the run.

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Tested full Sab build for several days now. I may not a be too proish at it but as allready said the burst potential of this spec heavily relies on using Incendiary Grenade + Sab Charge.

 

Other specs don't rely on that too much which make them superior in my oppinion for most situations.

 

IG seems reall good considering it's a ranged stun AND it avoids people from tapping as long as you live.

 

 

I just had a blast the first time i played that spec, but once you find out it's flaws it seems inferior then other specs for PvP. The biggest flaw is the long CD of IG . They could easily cut down the duration of that spell to 4 seconds, as thats the time the first faster and higher procs need to come out. In the same move they could reduce it's CD down to somtehing like 6-8 seconds. They may reduce the stun duration to 1 sec at the same time as getting stunned every 6-8 sec for 2 seconds is just too much for one class to have.

Edited by silvershadez
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Tested full Sab build for several days now. I may not a be too proish at it but as allready said the burst potential of this spec heavily relies on using Incendiary Grenade + Sab Charge.

 

Other specs don't rely on that too much which make them superior in my oppinion for most situations.

 

IG seems reall good considering it's a ranged stun AND it avoids people from tapping as long as you live.

 

 

I just had a blast the first time i played that spec, but once you find out it's flaws it seems inferior then other specs for PvP. The biggest flaw is the long CD of IG . They could easily cut down the duration of that spell to 4 seconds, as thats the time the first faster and higher procs need to come out. In the same move they could reduce it's CD down to somtehing like 6-8 seconds. They may reduce the stun duration to 1 sec at the same time as getting stunned every 6-8 sec for 2 seconds is just too much for one class to have.

 

 

IG has a cooldown and a duration of 18 seconds. Therefore you can have it up 100 percent of the time. It means you have to choose your placement wisely, do you want to use it to protect an objective, do you want to use as a slow, a stun, melee stealth protection, burst damage? If it were any shorter it would probably be op. besides, what other spec has an 18 second cooldown on burst potential?

 

If you enjoy playing sab you should stick with it, as you said sab gunslingers are kings at defense in pvp, I usually get platinum or sometimes diamond defense medals in pvp. However, if you enjoy ss or df better and that suits your play style best then don't feel you have to go sab.

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I intend on going 7/31/3, I'm lvl 27 and loving every minute of it. My dots + 3 contingency charges after sab charge? Later bro.

 

Had a quick question though, if aimed shot is not viable later on, what are you guys using to start the fight? I'm only 27 but mine looks like:

 

root- aimed shot - dots-smug luck - CB > sab grenade > flurry shot > quickdraw

 

I just got the talent that lets the charges give me energy so I moved sab nade later into the fight so I recover more energy. This sound right? What are we using if not aimed shot later on?

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I intend on going 7/31/3, I'm lvl 27 and loving every minute of it. My dots + 3 contingency charges after sab charge? Later bro.

 

Had a quick question though, if aimed shot is not viable later on, what are you guys using to start the fight? I'm only 27 but mine looks like:

 

root- aimed shot - dots-smug luck - CB > sab grenade > flurry shot > quickdraw

 

I just got the talent that lets the charges give me energy so I moved sab nade later into the fight so I recover more energy. This sound right? What are we using if not aimed shot later on?

 

pvp, I have taking percussive shot and generally only use aimed shot as a knockback, mainly in huttball, I don;t know if i will keep this talent it creates a lot of resolve which is worrisome in pvp. I occasionally will use it with illegal mods as well, otherwise too long cast time, in pve i have found if i don't use it when it is off cooldown I run out of energy, the longer cast time helps me be able to regen better.

 

in general in pvp you should be starting your fights with flourish shot (if you expect your target to be receiving heals or is a heavy armor class), sabotage charge, (speed shot when you get it), dots, luck, charged burst (use thermal grenade when fighting groups in pve or interrupting multiple people taking a node in pvp.

 

In general in pve when you are soloing start with sab charge then aimed shot, (speed shot when you get it), luck, charged burst, you can also use thermal grenade to knock them over and then head shot or cheap shot normals for a quick kill. or you can kick then cheap shot strongs to take them down faster.

 

 

you dont really need to root before you start attacking, it will be broken as soon as you start doing damage, I only use root if in pve someone is running away or in pvp to protect/cap an objective (mind you that is often in pvp) but not as an opener

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  • 2 weeks later...

So I've pretty much only played DF and have been reading the forums the last couple days been seeing a few threads on the full sab spec. Its caught my attention and really look forward to giving it a shot this weekend. With that in mind I was just wondering what sort of advice you guys would have to give a first time sab player. I'm aware I could read the sticky and get some general information but I'm looking for your experiences in pvp as that's all that interests me. So specific times to use certain skills/ a typical rotation. Some counters/tactics vs specific classes you know pvp stuff anything pvp related would be much appreciated looking forward to trying a new playstyle.

 

Thanks,

 

Fellow GS

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