Ok since my good friend KendraP countless times vehemently suggested Why 6.X Hates The Guardian/Jugg Tank, here goes:

Sin tanks have 0 good setbonuses, 0 good tank tacticals. The new setbonus that is supposed to be dxun nim exclusive is a meme set at best. It has only 3 useful utilities at best.

Guess we cant have good things, while other tank classes can make multiple threads demanding more...

The Spike DR set is pretty useful in PVE to pad DCD downtime with an extra 10% DR which is actually pretty powerful. There is also a set that reduces the CD of Overcharge by 20s which is pretty powerful considering its only 10s less than Right Price can do for Explosive Fuel and Overcharge is a very strong DCD.

Sin has by far the most useful PVE tacticals. 9s Shroud can let you avoid tank swaps even in NiM z&t basically making the tanking trivial. Double cloak gives you an extra shroud letting you solo tank bestia almost the entire fight with about 1 tank swap in NiM, or solo tank Brontes all of P3 in NiM, or easily manage dcds to eat a comfortable amount of orbs in final burn of NiM Brontes, or prevent every final energy wave from Tyth. Friend of the Force lets you shroud friends, you can protect friends from FT attacks, lightning field on dread guards, doom, toth aoe, any cleanses like apex vanguard or council.

Utilities are pretty useful too. 5% dr+a heal to friendly players is more than jugg gets, and in situations where rebounders do nothing, more than PTs get. +25% damage on laceration gives you the ability to basically hold any group of adds that are stacked together even through slam spam with well timed taunts far easier than juggs due to the 360 degrees of lacerate + wither/discharge. Force cloak cd reduction gives you a great buff to cloak when combined w double cloak and shroud on cloak. Extra charge on recklessness buffs your opener if you have problems with threat generation. Extra time on shroud buffs how much you can eat with shroud and a reflect on deflection makes it useful even in fights where youre taking exclusively FT.

Sins are definitely one of the most powerful tanks in PVE right now simply due to shroud and all the buffs shroud gets through the utilities and tacticals.

Um wow, I even mentioned over there that I wouldn't have called the thread what the current title was. I only joined the thread over there to ask that guardians get our set bonus and utility fixed.

Is it really such a horrible thing to request they fix bugs?

The Spike DR set is pretty useful in PVE to pad DCD downtime with an extra 10% DR which is actually pretty powerful. There is also a set that reduces the CD of Overcharge by 20s which is pretty powerful considering its only 10s less than Right Price can do for Explosive Fuel and Overcharge is a very strong DCD.

 

Sin has by far the most useful PVE tacticals. 9s Shroud can let you avoid tank swaps even in NiM z&t basically making the tanking trivial. Double cloak gives you an extra shroud letting you solo tank bestia almost the entire fight with about 1 tank swap in NiM, or solo tank Brontes all of P3 in NiM, or easily manage dcds to eat a comfortable amount of orbs in final burn of NiM Brontes, or prevent every final energy wave from Tyth. Friend of the Force lets you shroud friends, you can protect friends from FT attacks, lightning field on dread guards, doom, toth aoe, any cleanses like apex vanguard or council.

 

Utilities are pretty useful too. 5% dr+a heal to friendly players is more than jugg gets, and in situations where rebounders do nothing, more than PTs get. +25% damage on laceration gives you the ability to basically hold any group of adds that are stacked together even through slam spam with well timed taunts far easier than juggs due to the 360 degrees of lacerate + wither/discharge. Force cloak cd reduction gives you a great buff to cloak when combined w double cloak and shroud on cloak. Extra charge on recklessness buffs your opener if you have problems with threat generation. Extra time on shroud buffs how much you can eat with shroud and a reflect on deflection makes it useful even in fights where youre taking exclusively FT.

 

Sins are definitely one of the most powerful tanks in PVE right now simply due to shroud and all the buffs shroud gets through the utilities and tacticals.

Dude, because of statements like these sins have the worst TANKING tacticals: ward of continuum / ancient tome of wrath. The worst TANKING setbonuses: 10% DR alone wont save you, thats why most sin tanks go for the death knell set instead.

And if you think assassin's shelter is such as useful utility, I seriously question if you're forming your own opinion or just echoing the populist opinion on some discords...

sin tanks have a bit of a higher skillcap compared to the other tanks and since it's a bit centred around correctly using shroud/stealth out shroud and in the case of players using the Efficient Termination setbonus spike is added to that. Naturally, a player who isn't great at using those defensive to mitigate damage will feel that they are taking far more damage than other tanking classes, however for a good tank player Sin is by far the best tank for endgame PvE, which is why you see the majority of groups having at least one and often two sin tanks.

i think it would be great if sin tanks became easier to play for new players and I am sure many sin tank players feel the same as OP, while at the same time maintaining their viability for the endgame raiders

sin tanks have a bit of a higher skillcap compared to the other tanks and since it's a bit centred around correctly using shroud/stealth out shroud and in the case of players using the Efficient Termination setbonus spike is added to that. Naturally, a player who isn't great at using those defensive to mitigate damage will feel that they are taking far more damage than other tanking classes, however for a good tank player Sin is by far the best tank for endgame PvE, which is why you see the majority of groups having at least one and often two sin tanks.

 

i think it would be great if sin tanks became easier to play for new players and I am sure many sin tank players feel the same as OP, while at the same time maintaining their viability for the endgame raiders

Seriously, what does skillcap have anything to with this issue? Practically all classes and multiple specs in 6.0 have various choices in tacticals and setbonuses. As a sin tank, I'm choosing the DPS set because the tanking ones are not worth the bother. General sin tacticals because the tank ones are only fit for disintegration. So just because of shroud/stealth I have no right to complain?

Seriously, what does skillcap have anything to with this issue? Practically all classes and multiple specs in 6.0 have various choices in tacticals and setbonuses. As a sin tank, I'm choosing the DPS set because the tanking ones are not worth the bother. General sin tacticals because the tank ones are only fit for disintegration. So just because of shroud/stealth I have no right to complain?

I believe that he is responding to you much for the same reason you responded to me in the thread I did not create - the thread title. The difference is that I did not create the guardian thread and I was perfectly clear in what I wanted (bug fixes primarily).

What he's saying is perfectly true - a well played sin is, in fact, the best choice in many cases because of its ability to negate mechanics that the other tanks have to eat.

I've acknowledged that guardians are in a perfectly good spot right now, probably the best all around tank, but I would like what is supposed to be our primary set bonus fixed, I would like a general guardian utility fixed, and I would like our leap fixed.

And by the way, you could be screaming about shadow's gap closer too, because its been fluky since the day it released. Instead, you're busy creating issues out of other peoples issues rather than requesting reasonable changes. Perhaps rather than taking offense at what I said in a thread I did not create (and thus, did not title and said multiple times that I wouldn't have called the thread what they did), you could have created a reasonable debate about specific issues. Perhaps you even could have looked at the upcoming additions and changes on pts and commented there, as I did with the guardian changes.

To use your own so eloquent phrasing, shadow set bonuses suck, so my guardian deserves to be bugged?

Seriously, what does skillcap have anything to with this issue? Practically all classes and multiple specs in 6.0 have various choices in tacticals and setbonuses. As a sin tank, I'm choosing the DPS set because the tanking ones are not worth the bother. General sin tacticals because the tank ones are only fit for disintegration. So just because of shroud/stealth I have no right to complain?

Maybe you created the thread with a different purpose but my post is highly relevant based on title/what u wrote in the OP so there the fault lies in your phrasing. All classes, Shadow tanks included have multiple difference viable tacticals and set bonuses, both Efficient Termination and Death Knell has its uses in endgame operations depending on what boss fight you are doing. The variations in tacticals is a bit tricky since cloak is such an amazing ability the shroud utility that the double cloak becomes so good in most fights, but the other tacticals are situationally better, which is basically how this new system works for all classes.

All other specs have one setbonus and tactical that fits that spec the best, the rest are situational, Sin Tank is no different and it's a bit of a stretch to say that 6.0 "hates" sin tank just because you personally don't think the options are amazing.

However, I think that some kind of nerf to shadow tanks skiillcap to make it easier for new players and less reliant on using shroud/cloak and in return make their passive mitigation from set bonuses better would be a good idea.

Maybe you created the thread with a different purpose but my post is highly relevant based on title/what u wrote in the OP so there the fault lies in your phrasing. All classes, Shadow tanks included have multiple difference viable tacticals and set bonuses, both Efficient Termination and Death Knell has its uses in endgame operations depending on what boss fight you are doing. The variations in tacticals is a bit tricky since cloak is such an amazing ability the shroud utility that the double cloak becomes so good in most fights, but the other tacticals are situationally better, which is basically how this new system works for all classes.

 

All other specs have one setbonus and tactical that fits that spec the best, the rest are situational, Sin Tank is no different and it's a bit of a stretch to say that 6.0 "hates" sin tank just because you personally don't think the options are amazing.

 

However, I think that some kind of nerf to shadow tanks skiillcap to make it easier for new players and less reliant on using shroud/cloak and in return make their passive mitigation from set bonuses better would be a good idea.

Let me ELI-5 to you then since clearly, there's a failure on your part to comprehend the situation. Let's take Merc healers and take away Rocket fuel vapours and concentrated fire setbonus, maybe even apex predator and RRR is gone too. You're left with tech medic and stationary grit to choose from and as a tactical youre left with luck always changes and hp-5dart. Doesn't seem very appealing does it? And when you write a complaint about the situation, they tell you over and over what an amazing ability supercharged gas is so it's pointless to say anything. Then it's let's decrease the skillcap of Merc healers so it would be more relient on passive heat dispersal and rapid shots than timing and uptime of supercharged gas.

Hope it helps!

I believe that he is responding to you much for the same reason you responded to me in the thread I did not create - the thread title. The difference is that I did not create the guardian thread and I was perfectly clear in what I wanted (bug fixes primarily).

 

What he's saying is perfectly true - a well played sin is, in fact, the best choice in many cases because of its ability to negate mechanics that the other tanks have to eat.

 

I've acknowledged that guardians are in a perfectly good spot right now, probably the best all around tank, but I would like what is supposed to be our primary set bonus fixed, I would like a general guardian utility fixed, and I would like our leap fixed.

 

And by the way, you could be screaming about shadow's gap closer too, because its been fluky since the day it released. Instead, you're busy creating issues out of other peoples issues rather than requesting reasonable changes. Perhaps rather than taking offense at what I said in a thread I did not create (and thus, did not title and said multiple times that I wouldn't have called the thread what they did), you could have created a reasonable debate about specific issues. Perhaps you even could have looked at the upcoming additions and changes on pts and commented there, as I did with the guardian changes.

 

To use your own so eloquent phrasing, shadow set bonuses suck, so my guardian deserves to be bugged?

In all seriousness, I created this thread and the thread in the vanguard/section as a meme on the title in the guardian one. All 3 tanks are viable, but my main point in making the 2 other threads was to highlight that all 3 tanks have their issues. I'm not screaming nor am I creating issues out of other ppls issues. Gapclosers phantom stride and jet charge in particular are crap, the oilfire tactical for pts is unwieldy and gives armorrating instead of Dr, the sin tank bonuses suck. On the PTS, the nim dxun set was another disappoinment and I did comment in the thread about that setbonus, on the death knell setbonus change thread and in the inquisitor changes thread, but that got drowned out by sorcs.

Let's face it, ppl aren't here for reasonable debate. It's either to forward their main class agenda or just to voice their own opinion, because they like to control the narrative.

Let's face it, ppl aren't here for reasonable debate. It's either to forward their main class agenda or just to voice their own opinion, because they like to control the narrative.

ironic

ironic

Grand moff 0 - 3 Grand Moff

Sin tanks are more than fine. Let it go.

Shadow/Sin Tanks have a legitimate issue to complain about, but to me, it's not what you've suggested. The problems with the Guardian/Jugg Tank are unfixed bugs introduced in 6.0, and there are three of them -- the tank set bonus is broken, a key tank utility is broken, and the mass taunt and gapcloser essential to tanks lost their countdown timers.

There is a bug with the Shadow/Sin Tank you should complain about. It's that cascading debris is interruptible even after acquiring the correct three stacks, when it's supposed to be non-interruptible. I don't think the developers have acknowledged this bug yet.

I agree with you that the main Shadow/Sin Tank set is underwhelming. Periodic 10% DR is sort of unexciting, though it's pretty similar in scope to the remaining ability of the broken Guardian/Jugg Tank set.

I disagree with you on tacticals. Two Cloaks is freaking awesome for tanks. Coupled with the right utility, it allows the tank to use the most powerful immune/cleanse there is THREE TIMES PER COOLDOWN. How can you not love that? It's the ultimate tank cheese TRIPLED. Plus, you can tactically use Go To Sleep, Go To Sleep to ignore lots of mobs and crowd control. I love the combo of these tacticals on my Shadow Tank.

Two Cloaks is freaking awesome for tanks. Coupled with the right utility, it allows the tank to use the most powerful immune/cleanse there is THREE TIMES PER COOLDOWN. How can you not love that? It's the ultimate tank cheese TRIPLED.

Some might even say its not a cheese, it's mascorpone