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[Class Rep] Three Questions Regarding Our Wonderful Class

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
[Class Rep] Three Questions Regarding Our Wonderful Class

ScytheEleven's Avatar


ScytheEleven
02.18.2014 , 08:53 AM | #21
Thanks for the info guys. I guess the concept would be that ALL damage would be mitigated by shield overcharge ability...internal, elemental, etc. I do like the suggest that critical hits could still happen, but they would be reduced by the absorption multiplier.

So 5 seconds of Shield Overcharge = All damage types become shield-able for 5 seconds. 60 second CD.
Kendiaro - Powertech
Dasmon - Gunslinger

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
02.18.2014 , 09:14 AM | #22
I'm well aware, that some attack/damage type combinations can't be shielded and I think that this would be a great weakness for such a cooldown.
Since Powertech tanks have other advantages over the other two tank classes like a ranged taunt and superior cooldowns for longer damage phases, any anti-burst damage cooldown needs to be weaker than the respective cooldowns of Juggernauts and Assassins.

If this 'Shield Overcharge' would affect all forms of damage, then it would be nothing else than a second Energy Shield with a different cooldown and duration, whose damage reduction depends on your absorb value. That's boring.

Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
02.18.2014 , 10:33 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by ReclaimerDonar View Post
the 2 set bonuses offer nothing to us
You could say that about pretty much anything related to Merc OR PT

WillLongstick's Avatar


WillLongstick
02.18.2014 , 11:54 AM | #24
Let's not waste another question asking for a DCD that the devs have already said we won't get.

Here's a quick rundown of the situation for PT survivability that could warrant a new DCD:
PVP Tanking - Compared to Sin and Jugg tank, there's some merit to needing more cooldowns
PVP AP - People would not have run AP in tank stance if AP didn't provide enough survivability (DR when stunned or AOEd)
PVP Pyro - Let's keep it a secret how insane Kolto Overload is in this spec, combined with Pyro Shield and the threat drop

PVE Tanking - I hope nothing is ever changed from the current balance of PVE tanking. All 3 classes are great and have the situations they're best in.
PVE AP - See PVP section, and you're doing better than Operative DPS
PVE Pyro - See PVP section, and you're doing better than Operative DPS

Am I glossing over PVE DPS survivability? Absolutely, you have Energy Shield and heavy armor, what more do you need to survive in PVE? This means every complaint about needing another defensive cooldown is based in PVP Tanking. Buffing that one aspect at the class level will throw out PVE tank balance, and lead to PVP Pyro being the next FOTM up for nerf. How do we help PVP Tanks then? Set bonus. That's the route we should be looking instead of rehashing the old Vanguard question of "Can we have another DCD?"


I have two issues I'd like to bring into discussion. Neither are crucial to our class but they do relate to the overall Pub/Imp balancing.

Issue 1: Vanguard or Commando Hammer Shot hits a target with 7 separate attacks. Powertech Rapid Shots hits a target with 5 separate attacks and Merc Rapid Shots hits a target with 10 separate attacks. I don't want to break out the math, but this gives Powertech's easily the lowest chance of any Pyro class to trigger CGC, and it gives PT tanks about a 10% lower chance to trigger IGC (lowering Heat Blast's CD) than Vanguard tanks. I would like to ask if they could set the cylinders up in a way that results in all of the final probabilities coming out the same.

Issue 2: Take this opportunity to ask what's up with legacy weapons. Right now Mara's and Sent's can send both mainhand and offhand over. PT's and VG's can't send any weapons across.
Gorthog - Amelthea
<Intrepid>

Kooziejr's Avatar


Kooziejr
02.18.2014 , 01:56 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by WillLongstick View Post
Let's not waste another question asking for a DCD that the devs have already said we won't get.

Here's a quick rundown of the situation for PT survivability that could warrant a new DCD:
PVP Tanking - Compared to Sin and Jugg tank, there's some merit to needing more cooldowns
PVP AP - People would not have run AP in tank stance if AP didn't provide enough survivability (DR when stunned or AOEd)
PVP Pyro - Let's keep it a secret how insane Kolto Overload is in this spec, combined with Pyro Shield and the threat drop

PVE Tanking - I hope nothing is ever changed from the current balance of PVE tanking. All 3 classes are great and have the situations they're best in.
PVE AP - See PVP section, and you're doing better than Operative DPS
PVE Pyro - See PVP section, and you're doing better than Operative DPS

Am I glossing over PVE DPS survivability? Absolutely, you have Energy Shield and heavy armor, what more do you need to survive in PVE? This means every complaint about needing another defensive cooldown is based in PVP Tanking. Buffing that one aspect at the class level will throw out PVE tank balance, and lead to PVP Pyro being the next FOTM up for nerf. How do we help PVP Tanks then? Set bonus. That's the route we should be looking instead of rehashing the old Vanguard question of "Can we have another DCD?"


I have two issues I'd like to bring into discussion. Neither are crucial to our class but they do relate to the overall Pub/Imp balancing.

Issue 1: Vanguard or Commando Hammer Shot hits a target with 7 separate attacks. Powertech Rapid Shots hits a target with 5 separate attacks and Merc Rapid Shots hits a target with 10 separate attacks. I don't want to break out the math, but this gives Powertech's easily the lowest chance of any Pyro class to trigger CGC, and it gives PT tanks about a 10% lower chance to trigger IGC (lowering Heat Blast's CD) than Vanguard tanks. I would like to ask if they could set the cylinders up in a way that results in all of the final probabilities coming out the same.

Issue 2: Take this opportunity to ask what's up with legacy weapons. Right now Mara's and Sent's can send both mainhand and offhand over. PT's and VG's can't send any weapons across.
Those iasues are trivial. Sorry. The first one should be fixed is true but above that I dont think a question should be used on tgat.

Scythe eleven come up with a solution....no point saying "that aounds boring" we are trying to be unique...I know they say not to give a suggestion but guess what...we are going to anyway because it is needed. Plz dont say pt cooldowns "last longer" 2 of them can be entirely mitigated. Energy shield is the only anti burst we have.
Koozie
/creampie

lazorgunpewpew's Avatar


lazorgunpewpew
02.19.2014 , 09:48 AM | #26
This isn't really PT specific, but the debuff tracking in this game sucks. I hate that the bleed for PTs looks exactly like the bleed for marauders. So, first question:

Why does the debuff tracking in this game suck so hard?

I mostly PVE-tank on my PT. PTs are in a really good spot, and I can't really complain about anything. The only weak spot is our number of DCDs, but our passive mitigation makes up for that.

One thing I don't like in PVE-DPS is that out gap-closer is slow compared to other MDPS. Grapple is not really useful in PVE, and hydraulic override is slow in comparison to force speed, jumps, rolls, ect. Next question would be:

Are there any plans to improve mobility in PVE that won't break PVP?

Oh yah, ask for more pve damage too.
The Wuvs-u Legacy
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Blitz-wing's Avatar


Blitz-wing
02.20.2014 , 02:13 AM | #27
Opening Statement: Comment on the solid position that PT's are in with regards to Tanking (PvE & PvP) & DPS (PvP).
Follow up with the fact that in PvE PT DPS has fallen behind all classes expect Assassin, that even with the introduction of the armor debuff relic for the target dummy, neither PT DPS spec is putting up competitive numbers.

PvE - While an overall Damage boost is needed, the Powertech community feels that the lack of a true gap closer is the 2nd biggest factor is lower DPS. What are the design theories behind the Powertech being the only melee class without a gap closer?
With the higher mobility that PT's have compared to the other melee classes it is accepted that Jet Charge would be to overpowered. However a boost system similar to that of the Assassin or Operative would be balanced.

General - The 2-pc Set Bonus (PvE) & both the 2-pc & 4-pc Set Bonus (PvP) are underwhelming. The PvE 2-pc is only picked up because it's apart of the 4-pc, while the PvP Combat Tech set is skipped for the Eliminators set completely. (Expand to include the reasoning behind the short comings.)
What are the design goals for these set bonuses & are they hitting them?

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
02.20.2014 , 02:32 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Blitz-wing View Post
General - The 2-pc Set Bonus (PvE) & both the 2-pc & 4-pc Set Bonus (PvP) are underwhelming. The PvE 2-pc is only picked up because it's apart of the 4-pc, while the PvP Combat Tech set is skipped for the Eliminators set completely. (Expand to include the reasoning behind the short comings.)
What are the design goals for these set bonuses & are they hitting them?
I'd like to point out here that the 2-piece PvE bonus means that shoulder cannon synchs up better with Explosive Fuel, but then again Explosive Fuel should be on that cooldown anyway. The 2-piece PvE is about a 3% crit rate increase if you have explosive fuel up off cooldown, so its not really a waste (in fact, its stronger than the boost from the merc 2-piece PvE bonus). But then again, explosive fuel really should be a 105 second cooldown naturally and the 2-piece should be better. Something to do with resource management...

Oh and yeah, the PvP 4-piece should really be better for Assault spec. Especially considering that the 4-piece Merc set bonus is better than the 2-piece and 4-piece PT PvP set bonus combined...

Why Resource Management? See my colourful post on page 1.

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
02.20.2014 , 03:37 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by lazorgunpewpew View Post
I mostly PVE-tank on my PT. PTs are in a really good spot, and I can't really complain about anything. The only weak spot is our number of DCDs, but our passive mitigation makes up for that.
In theory, this is correct. In practice, however, this only works out if the tanks survivability isn't only tested through short burst damage phases. Scum&Villainy was somewhat unbalanced because it had so much burst damage that had to be tanked.
As I tried to say in my earlier post, it can be frustrating in high end PvE if an encounter caters towards the strengths of one (or two) of the existing tanking classes without giving the other tanking classes a niche to shine in.
The Oricon-Operations look like they will do a better job in giving each tanking class a way to play to their strength. If this changes again with future operations, the tanking classes need better tools for situations they are currently weak in (e.g. Anti-burst tools for Powertechs, kiting tools for Juggernauts, etc).

The way things currently are, I don't see this as the top issue for Powertech tanks, so I'd rather use our questions to bring up the defense-shield issue I brought up before.

Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
02.20.2014 , 09:40 AM | #30
General - The 2-pc Set Bonus (PvE) & both the 2-pc & 4-pc Set Bonus (PvP) are underwhelming. The PvE 2-pc is only picked up because it's apart of the 4-pc, while the PvP Combat Tech set is skipped for the Eliminators set completely. (Expand to include the reasoning behind the short comings.)
What are the design goals for these set bonuses & are they hitting them?[/QUOTE]

While I agree that there needs to be a PT eliminator set, the 15% bonus critic on RS is so crucial for damage. Also, every AP PT uses combat tech set because RP is integral part of AP damage and the additional 0.5 sec in carbonize and 15 sec reduction on CC break are pretty useful. Are PT sets useless in PvP? Far from it. In PvE the set is good for pyro but poor for AP. Some work needs to be put in improving the set bonuses, but I would not consider it high on the priorities for PT.