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[Class Rep] Three Questions Regarding Our Wonderful Class

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
[Class Rep] Three Questions Regarding Our Wonderful Class

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
02.16.2014 , 06:18 AM | #11
@ReclaimerDonar: Buffing Unload wouldn't help any tree except Shield Tech in PvE. On one hand AP doesn't have room in its rotation for another 3sec channel. I don't know about Pyro, but the same problem probably arises there as well.
On the other hand, there are too many PvE-scenarios that include sudden movement, knockbacks and/or stuns. A second 3 second channel would cause many difficulties in play style.


About the additional cooldown for tanks: I'm hesitant to ask for an anti-burst damage cooldown, because it would make the three tank specs more similar. It is true, that the lack of an anti-burst damage cooldown that is available once every minute, is a weakness of Powertech tank compared to the other two tank classes, but we have other strengths.

From a PvE perspective, Powertech tanks are very strong at tanking adds. Their cooldowns and their ranged taunt + ranged tools are perfect for it. There is also at least one instance in the game, where the ability to tank from 30 meters away is very useful (Xenoanalyst II).

So instead of asking for another cooldown I would prefer it, if high end PvE content would be designed such that Powertech tanks can play to their strengths as much as Assassins and Juggernauts can. If this can't be done, a cooldown as described by ScytheEleven would be a good (and pretty cool) alternative.

EDIT: Would this cooldown also provide immunity against crits for its duration? Because otherwise the effective Shield Chance is 100% - crit chance of the enemy.

Melon_Lord's Avatar


Melon_Lord
02.16.2014 , 09:14 PM | #12
Lower the CD of Shoulder Cannon by 30 seconds so we can actually use it every 90 seconds instead of waiting for the painfully slow load time. Also give Pyro some sort of Shoulder Cannon related skill. Why doesn't it have one when the other two trees do?
The Bastion - Baroness Stryvah

Kooziejr's Avatar


Kooziejr
02.17.2014 , 06:25 PM | #13
I have not formulated any questions but for pt this is what needs to be fixed. If ur a pvper dps asking for more defensives or pvp buffs u need to uninstall because u are a terribad. Now that I have got that off my chest lets direct these questions towards pve dps and pvp tanking. My suggestions:
1. TAnking - give another defensive cooldown or a mez. We need to be able to hold a node for a prolonged period of time of time and be able to have more of an impact in ranked outside of peels and guarding. Both wouldnt be op. A 6 second single target mez and a cooldown that is inline with reflect and shroud but holds true to shield tech name. I suggest a 50% extra shield chance and not being able to crit the powertech for 8 seconds on a 90 second cooldown. I think that really would be an excellent cooldown for us to prolong death/make us an extremely undesirable target like sin tanks and juggs have.
2. Can we just increase pt dps in pve?? How?? Armour pen onlu on npcs?? I dont know how to fix this so I will leave it to ghe pve guys. I have done a heap of pve in the past and feel ur pain lads. Good luck. DO NOT MAKE SUGGESTIONS THAT ARE NOT UNIQUE TO PVE OR U WILL END UP GETTING A HUGE NERF.
Koozie
/creampie

Kooziejr's Avatar


Kooziejr
02.17.2014 , 07:07 PM | #14
Actually I have formulated a question for pvp tanks. Please submit this question or a very similar revised one.

Powertech tanks are very rarely seen in ranked arenas and in regular warzones and we feel it is due to their lack of defensive tools. PTs dont have a knockback, friendly leap, vanish, or force push but do have a pull and hydraulic overrides which is prettt cool and all these things set the different tanks apart. However, two major issues with powertech tanking is their lack of crowd control and inability to mitigate imminent incoming damage. For example, lets say a sorc was casting thundering blast on each three classes. There is an imminent 7k attack about to hit...juggs can hit reflect, sins can shroud or vanish but pts must eat a very large chunk of that damage. Further, one of our cooldowns requires people to be within the targeted area to be affected. This cooldown is a reasonable cooldown but because of the plethora of escapes in the game (sniper roll, carnage mara camo, hydraulic overrides, intercede, force speed) it is very easily escaped from. We believe a cooldown that allows high mitigation for a short period of imminent burst would level pt tanks with other tanks. One suggestion has been an ability that increasea shield chance to 100% and making the powertech immune to critical hits for the duration as one (lasts 5 seconds, 60 sec cooldown). Another thing both other tanks have are crowd control abilties which pts do not. Yes we have a 2.5 second stun but this is used mainly as a peeling tool such as a sin knockback. A single target 6 second mez would allow pts to be a lot more competitive in pvp as havinv utility to cc a healer and assist the team like other tanking clasaes are about to. Please do not make any of these abilities reachable for powertech dps.
Koozie
/creampie

Blitz-wing's Avatar


Blitz-wing
02.18.2014 , 03:11 AM | #15
The question we ask need to be on the design & performance of the class or a specific ability. General questions will get general (unhelpful) answers.

I am not a PvPer so i'll not be suggesting questions for the PvP question. Sadly i think there are more then 3 question that need to be asked. To cover as much as possible i suggest writing an intro before the questions to give an overview of were the players feel PT's stand at the moment in PvP & PvE with both Tanking & DPS.

Tanking - the PT's lack of powerful DCD compared to Reflex & Shroud. Include suggestion of 100% Shield w/ Crit immunity or other idea.

General - Set Bonus for both PvP & PvE are bad. Question the design of the set bonuses with PvPer preferring the Eliminators while the PvE 2-pc is poor due to the lack of sync with relic.

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
02.18.2014 , 03:24 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Kooziejr View Post
Actually I have formulated a question for pvp tanks. Please submit this question or a very similar revised one.

Powertech tanks are very rarely seen in ranked arenas and in regular warzones and we feel it is due to their lack of defensive tools. PTs dont have a knockback, friendly leap, vanish, or force push but do have a pull and hydraulic overrides which is prettt cool and all these things set the different tanks apart. However, two major issues with powertech tanking is their lack of crowd control and inability to mitigate imminent incoming damage. For example, lets say a sorc was casting thundering blast on each three classes. There is an imminent 7k attack about to hit...juggs can hit reflect, sins can shroud or vanish but pts must eat a very large chunk of that damage. Further, one of our cooldowns requires people to be within the targeted area to be affected. This cooldown is a reasonable cooldown but because of the plethora of escapes in the game (sniper roll, carnage mara camo, hydraulic overrides, intercede, force speed) it is very easily escaped from. We believe a cooldown that allows high mitigation for a short period of imminent burst would level pt tanks with other tanks. One suggestion has been an ability that increasea shield chance to 100% and making the powertech immune to critical hits for the duration as one (lasts 5 seconds, 60 sec cooldown). Another thing both other tanks have are crowd control abilties which pts do not. Yes we have a 2.5 second stun but this is used mainly as a peeling tool such as a sin knockback. A single target 6 second mez would allow pts to be a lot more competitive in pvp as havinv utility to cc a healer and assist the team like other tanking clasaes are about to. Please do not make any of these abilities reachable for powertech dps.
I'd be careful about the beginning of this question Koozie, the old VG questions had a question that looked remarkably similar to the first half of this and the result was "You have a perception problem!"

See my very colourful post for more details.

ScytheEleven's Avatar


ScytheEleven
02.18.2014 , 06:28 AM | #17
To answer the question, yes, the 100% shield chance would protect against crits as well. It's to my understanding that an attack that is shielded cannot be critical, but I could be wrong.
Kendiaro - Powertech
Dasmon - Gunslinger

Kooziejr's Avatar


Kooziejr
02.18.2014 , 06:35 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by ScytheEleven View Post
To answer the question, yes, the 100% shield chance would protect against crits as well. It's to my understanding that an attack that is shielded cannot be critical, but I could be wrong.
No that is not adequate. It must do both. Internal and elemental damage cannot be shielded. Neither can crits. The tooltip must state 100% shield chance and no crits independent of each other or something like that. We need a way to stop autocrit attacks and internal elemental damage like the other 2 classes. Nothing else will suffice. Jeez I dont even play pt tank and I think it is bs. Stand up and be heard pt tanks!!! I shall silence the dps people with mockery if they think any of these questions will be wasted on pvp dps garbage.
Koozie
/creampie

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
02.18.2014 , 07:57 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by ScytheEleven View Post
To answer the question, yes, the 100% shield chance would protect against crits as well. It's to my understanding that an attack that is shielded cannot be critical, but I could be wrong.
If I recall correctly, crit and shield interacted in the following way pre-2.0 (don't know how it is since then, because they currently can't interfere anymore except via auto-crits): Once an ability is determined to hit, the game will perform a roll to determine, whether the ability crits, deals normale damage, or gets shielded. Say, the defender has a shield chance of 30%, the attacker has a crit chance of 20% and suppose this roll is a roll from 1 to 100.
If the game rolls something between 1-30, the attack is shielded.
If the game rolls something between 31-80, the attack deals normal damage.
If the game rolls something between 80-100, the attack crits.
Pre-2.0 crit chance could be so high, that the sum crit chance% + shield chance % > 100%. In this case situation would arise where the roll of the game determines that an attack crits and gets shielded at the same time. In this case the attack would NOT be shielded, but it would crit.
I assume that this hasn't been changed, because otherwise auto-crits could currently get shielded in PvP. This is something PvPers would realize pretty quick.

Now that I think about your suggestion again:
If this mechanic hasn't been changed, your cooldown carries a significant weakness, because it doesn't affect critical hits, which deal the significant junk of damage.
On the other hand, if this cooldown provides immunity against crits (In other words: If an attack both crits and gets shielded, it doesn't crit, but gets shielded as long as this cooldown is active) it might be over-the-top in PvP since many skill trees have auto-crit mechanisms.
An interesting middle way would be to let an attack crit and get shielded at the same time as long as this cooldown is active. Since the damage of critical hits and shielded hits can be determined via a multiplier, it doesn't matter if the crit or the shield absorption gets applied first (multiplication commutes).

Kooziejr's Avatar


Kooziejr
02.18.2014 , 08:33 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Mathemagica View Post
If I recall correctly, crit and shield interacted in the following way pre-2.0 (don't know how it is since then, because they currently can't interfere anymore except via auto-crits): Once an ability is determined to hit, the game will perform a roll to determine, whether the ability crits, deals normale damage, or gets shielded. Say, the defender has a shield chance of 30%, the attacker has a crit chance of 20% and suppose this roll is a roll from 1 to 100.
If the game rolls something between 1-30, the attack is shielded.
If the game rolls something between 31-80, the attack deals normal damage.
If the game rolls something between 80-100, the attack crits.
Pre-2.0 crit chance could be so high, that the sum crit chance% + shield chance % > 100%. In this case situation would arise where the roll of the game determines that an attack crits and gets shielded at the same time. In this case the attack would NOT be shielded, but it would crit.
I assume that this hasn't been changed, because otherwise auto-crits could currently get shielded in PvP. This is something PvPers would realize pretty quick.

Now that I think about your suggestion again:
If this mechanic hasn't been changed, your cooldown carries a significant weakness, because it doesn't affect critical hits, which deal the significant junk of damage.
On the other hand, if this cooldown provides immunity against crits (In other words: If an attack both crits and gets shielded, it doesn't crit, but gets shielded as long as this cooldown is active) it might be over-the-top in PvP since many skill trees have auto-crit mechanisms.
An interesting middle way would be to let an attack crit and get shielded at the same time as long as this cooldown is active. Since the damage of critical hits and shielded hits can be determined via a multiplier, it doesn't matter if the crit or the shield absorption gets applied first (multiplication commutes).
Yes that is my understanding of how it works too. The thing u do not seem to understand is that some are internal damage.....this can Never be shielded. My suggestion is not over the top....r u forgetting that juggs not only reflect the entire direct damage off them but a certain amount attacks the target. ..whereas a sin simply vanishes to avoid an ambush cast or shrouds and is immune to all yellow damage.....im not suggesting a 15 second cooldown...im suggesting a highly active cooldown in line with juggs and sins to mitigate imminent damage. If you see a thundering blash, ambush, second tracer missile coming ur way that u know is going to be followed by heatseeker or a pyro has thrown on thermal det then there has to be a similar cooldowm to mitigate the imminent damage and make people think twice before going all out on u because their damage will be reduced to nothing. It would be fair to increase oil slick cooldown to 1.15 instead of 1.00 and give us such a 5 second cooldown on 60 sec timer. Like plz its not over the top. I use adrenals so often when I tank because I get in such a dead space after using energy shield.

I dont know if my crit suggestion is viable but its unique and in line with how a shield tech would work. There needs to be a way to punish people for attacking any tank by having their damage reduced to nothing for a very short period of time!!!! Dots and aoe should still be able to do normal damage to the pt???? But direct damage should seriously be able to be mitigated...very similar to jugg reflect without not taking any damage and reflecting it back!
Koozie
/creampie