Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

[Class Rep] Three Questions Regarding Our Wonderful Class

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
[Class Rep] Three Questions Regarding Our Wonderful Class

TheSupaCoopa's Avatar


TheSupaCoopa
03.02.2014 , 06:11 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
Ok, i dont know if your trolling or not, but if you are just stop. Powertechs NEED, 100% NEED a gap closer. It is without a doubt 100% bonafide needed. I dont care if we lose Hydraulic Overrides, but for christ sake give PT DPS Jet Charge! PT DPS is almost as mobile as a friggin Sorc or Merc! I even have talent ideas for AP, and Pyro that will synergyse with Jet Charge and the specs.

Hydraulic Overboost - Activating Jet Charge gives you Hydraulic Overboost, which increases your movement speed by 30% and makes you immune to Physics for 4.5 seconds. (AP Talent replaces the HO +4 duration talent)

Fuel Leak - Activating Jet Charge creates a trail of fuel that ignites from your jetpack, causing anyone near it to ignite for 6 seconds dealing ~600 Elemental damage. (Pyro Talent)

Both of these talents would be useful. I would even have Harpoon removed, or made tank only to replace it with Jet Charge because Leap > Pull
While I agree with gaining Jet Charge, Harpoon and Hydraulic overrides are way too invaluable to loose.

Jet Charge Changes(To be balanced for DPS and Tank) could include:
- decrease damage by 50%
- increase CD to 20s(up from 15s)
- decrease root time to 2s(Down from 4s)

Tanks could spec into a faster CD(15s), longer root(4s), and increased Threat, while Tactics could have a damage boost(10%) after using Jet Charge, and Pyro would get fuel leak(DoT).
The Valiance Legacy, Begeren Colony
"I don't get paid to do the easy jobs, ma'am."- Republic Trooper
Current 50's and 55's

vPLethality AmillarArturon

TheSupaCoopa's Avatar


TheSupaCoopa
03.02.2014 , 06:15 PM | #102
Duran'del here:

Honestly, BW needs to look at the CD of Shoulder Cannon. Id the 4 missiles are not used when you side or the timer reaches 0, it goes on CD. This is obnoxious in PvP. The Shoulder cannon Missiles need to be permanent buffs and the CD should reset when you die. It would also be nice if the CD was decreased by 15-30s.
The Valiance Legacy, Begeren Colony
"I don't get paid to do the easy jobs, ma'am."- Republic Trooper
Current 50's and 55's

vPLethality AmillarArturon

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
03.02.2014 , 06:41 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by TheSupaCoopa View Post
Duran'del here:

Honestly, BW needs to look at the CD of Shoulder Cannon. Id the 4 missiles are not used when you side or the timer reaches 0, it goes on CD. This is obnoxious in PvP. The Shoulder cannon Missiles need to be permanent buffs and the CD should reset when you die. It would also be nice if the CD was decreased by 15-30s.
Hes onto something you know.

e.g. What if shoulder cannon was redesigned so instead of loading 4 missiles and letting you spam it out, its just on a 15 second cooldown (talent in AP tree reduces cooldown by 2.5/5/7.5 instead of loading more missiles) - DPS increase, but hurts more than it helps in PvP (and lets be honest... Aside from shield tech PTs are obscenely good in PvP).

Then we just double the damage of Heat blast or something and call it a day.

However, these are not "3 Suggestions to help our wonderful class", but rather we are trying to formulate 3 questions relating to the class. I think we should just get off the topic of suggesting adding jet charge to all specs, and throwing out suggestions everywhere, and get back on topic.

Heres what I picked up to be the basics of our questions:

SHIELD SPEC
Worst PvP tank due to no hybridability (unlike juggs - seriously they need to tie the ravage proc to Shien form) and weak damage output (unlike sins), and no burst cooldowns (Both)

ADVANCED POWERTECH
Lowest Sustained single target spec, issues with requiring flame barrage proc for sub-par damage output due to it being a necessary part of the resource management (the best parse on a debuffed 1-mill dummy was 3400dps, and that was with 100% uptime on flame barrage and 10 seconds between rocket punches) and generally poor damage output.

PYROTECH
Issues with resource management (relies on a proc that stuffs up at the worst times to get resources back), as well as severely hurt by alacrity, yet being forced to take an alacrity talent to have its energy return talents.

Thats the problems with each spec right now. And questions need to be formulated around said problems that the devs can properly respond to.

If there are any more issues, its just I feel like HtL is a little too small a boost for my liking in speed. Its just a thing that annoys me that I can't use it to run around quickly indoors/in pvp while my rocket boots are on cooldown/disabled due to PvP, and Im not expecting a 20% increase to its boost anytime soon, but if it happens I wont complain...

Mularky's Avatar


Mularky
03.02.2014 , 07:15 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by TACeMossie View Post
Hes onto something you know.

e.g. What if shoulder cannon was redesigned so instead of loading 4 missiles and letting you spam it out, its just on a 15 second cooldown (talent in AP tree reduces cooldown by 2.5/5/7.5 instead of loading more missiles) - DPS increase, but hurts more than it helps in PvP (and lets be honest... Aside from shield tech PTs are obscenely good in PvP).

Then we just double the damage of Heat blast or something and call it a day.

However, these are not "3 Suggestions to help our wonderful class", but rather we are trying to formulate 3 questions relating to the class. I think we should just get off the topic of suggesting adding jet charge to all specs, and throwing out suggestions everywhere, and get back on topic.

Heres what I picked up to be the basics of our questions:

SHIELD SPEC
Worst PvP tank due to no hybridability (unlike juggs - seriously they need to tie the ravage proc to Shien form) and weak damage output (unlike sins), and no burst cooldowns (Both)

ADVANCED POWERTECH
Lowest Sustained single target spec, issues with requiring flame barrage proc for sub-par damage output due to it being a necessary part of the resource management (the best parse on a debuffed 1-mill dummy was 3400dps, and that was with 100% uptime on flame barrage and 10 seconds between rocket punches) and generally poor damage output.

PYROTECH
Issues with resource management (relies on a proc that stuffs up at the worst times to get resources back), as well as severely hurt by alacrity, yet being forced to take an alacrity talent to have its energy return talents.

Thats the problems with each spec right now. And questions need to be formulated around said problems that the devs can properly respond to.

If there are any more issues, its just I feel like HtL is a little too small a boost for my liking in speed. Its just a thing that annoys me that I can't use it to run around quickly indoors/in pvp while my rocket boots are on cooldown/disabled due to PvP, and Im not expecting a 20% increase to its boost anytime soon, but if it happens I wont complain...
I'm not a big fan of this idea. Mainly becuase shoulder cannon is a huge part of burst in both dps specs.

OM-AR's Avatar


OM-AR
03.02.2014 , 07:22 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by Mularky View Post
I'm not a big fan of this idea. Mainly becuase shoulder cannon is a huge part of burst in both dps specs.
It has a very low dps contribution at pve though.
The Red Eclipse:
Marauder: OM'AR Assassin: OMAAR Bounty Hunter: O’maar

Kooziejr's Avatar


Kooziejr
03.03.2014 , 12:40 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
Ok, i dont know if your trolling or not, but if you are just stop. Powertechs NEED, 100% NEED a gap closer. It is without a doubt 100% bonafide needed. I dont care if we lose Hydraulic Overrides, but for christ sake give PT DPS Jet Charge! PT DPS is almost as mobile as a friggin Sorc or Merc! I even have talent ideas for AP, and Pyro that will synergyse with Jet Charge and the specs.

Hydraulic Overboost - Activating Jet Charge gives you Hydraulic Overboost, which increases your movement speed by 30% and makes you immune to Physics for 4.5 seconds. (AP Talent replaces the HO +4 duration talent)

Fuel Leak - Activating Jet Charge creates a trail of fuel that ignites from your jetpack, causing anyone near it to ignite for 6 seconds dealing ~600 Elemental damage. (Pyro Talent)

Both of these talents would be useful. I would even have Harpoon removed, or made tank only to replace it with Jet Charge because Leap > Pull
1) You don't know how to play a PT
2) Re roll a mara/jug

You are clearly a PvE players and that is fine...I can tell you play absolutely zero PvP and if you do you are a terribad. Jet charge is not as good as hydraulics in PvP...in fact it would completely fk you over standing on Melee dps...Son...you don't understand the class MECHANIC. IT IS NOT A 4M class----THEREFORE THERE CANNOT BE A 4M gap closer! YOU NEED TO RE ROLL A MARAUDER OR JUGGERNAUT IF U WANT A GAP CLOSER - THEY ARE 4M classes! Do you understand this?

In PvE the problem IS NOT the gap closer....People get less DPS on dummies regardless (THey start 4m from the dummy)!. YOU NEED THE SUSTAINED DPS FIXED....IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GAP CLOSING..YOU ARE A BAD PLAYER IF U THINK PTS NEED A GAP CLOSER OR THAT THIS WILL SOMEHOW INCREASE THEIR DPS TO COMPETITIVE LEVELS....

You can all argue tooth and nail for the next 10 years that PTs need a gap closer. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. THAT IS NOT THE CLASS MECHANIC. Please stop suggesting this....It WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Saying "we need a gap closer" will not solve this problem...it makes you look stupid on the forums to the people who actually used them more than 2 weeks because people have said that every patch since 1.1.....When 2.7 rolls around there will be NO GAP CLOSER JET CHARGE ADDED FOR DPS. So, either RE ROLL or L2P PT properly. Read past threads to learn HOW TO PLAY PT properly. You clearly DO NOT UNDERSTAND and it is too hard for you if you think you need a gap closer. GO PLAY ANNIHILATION MARAUDER they have a gap closer on a Very low cooldown...you will enjoy that.

Rant over.

Scenario for you based on your suggestion: Sniper Vs PT in a node fight 1 v 1 from 35m start away from eachother assuming no hydraulic override and jet charge instead.

Sniper: Legshot @ 35 Meters
Sniper: Explosive Probe @ 35 Meters
Sniper: Ambush @ 35 Meters
Sniper: Followthrough

PT - Uses first attack (YOU CANNOT CHARGE A SNIPER!) Don't forget legshot coming again in 8 seconds when hes 25M away again after a roll (Charge and Grapple don't work on sniper!)
You lose 80% to 0%

WHAT? you used your CC breaker on legshot?

Sniper: Flashbang
Sniper: Explosive Probe
Sniper: Ambush
Sniper: Followthrough
Sniper: roll away
Sniper: Leg shot
Sniper: Series of Shots followthrough
Sniper: Takedown

So as you can see....with your change in mechanics are you a completely useless class against any decent sniper and cannot kite Melee at all.....which is terrible because melee will kill you quicker from 4m than you can kill them...

I know you won't understand this. I have tried explaining the whole "jet charge" thing so many times but people don't get the class. They think they need to be on top of everyone and everything and if they get knocked back to 16-17 metres in a raid that they need to "CHARGE BACK" LOL L2P. Learn to use explosive dart. It does more damage than force leap and by the time the GCD you are back within 10m anyways. The only time when PT gap closer would be nice is at 25-30M away..but hey L2P the class and you won't be that far away. Over and out. Rant now officially over. One more thing. L2P
Koozie
/creampie

Mathemagica's Avatar


Mathemagica
03.03.2014 , 02:10 AM | #107
I've said so in my first post, but I feel I should say it again. The top issue of Powertech tanks in my opinion is the conflict between defense and the talents Shield Vents, Hydraulic Shields and Heat Screen.
If we have to choose one (and only one) question about Shield Tech, my vote goes to the following question (or the same question with other words):

The Shield Tech tree contains several talents - Shield Vents, Hydraulic Shields and Heat Screen to be precise - that are triggered when shielding an attack, but not when an attack is parried, dodged, resisted etc. Increasing the defense value on a Powertech tank decreases the chance of shielding an attack, hence it reduces the chance of triggering these skills.
It is true for every tank that higher defense reduces his/her practical shield chance, because less attacks make it to the point where they can be shielded. However, Powertech tanks suffer more under this effect than the other two tanking trees, since there are several mechanics in the Shield Tech tree that require shielding and not dodging etc. to get triggered.
This becomes even more problematic when theory crafters suggest that, in order to maximize mean mitigation, Powertech tanks need a lot of defense.
In short, the defense stat conflicts with the mechanics of Powertech tanks. Could we see a change to this such that the 'conflict' between defense and shield doesn't interfere with tree mechanics (for example by making the talents mentioned above additionally trigger whenever an attack gets dodged, parried, resisted)?



I like Blitz-Wing's question about our dps trees, but we need to be able to back it up somehow. The way the question is put, they might simply say that their metrics indicate otherwise.

TheSupaCoopa's Avatar


TheSupaCoopa
03.03.2014 , 06:18 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Kooziejr View Post
1) You don't know how to play a PT
2) Re roll a mara/jug

You are clearly a PvE players and that is fine...I can tell you play absolutely zero PvP and if you do you are a terribad. Jet charge is not as good as hydraulics in PvP...in fact it would completely fk you over standing on Melee dps...Son...you don't understand the class MECHANIC. IT IS NOT A 4M class----THEREFORE THERE CANNOT BE A 4M gap closer! YOU NEED TO RE ROLL A MARAUDER OR JUGGERNAUT IF U WANT A GAP CLOSER - THEY ARE 4M classes! Do you understand this?

In PvE the problem IS NOT the gap closer....People get less DPS on dummies regardless (THey start 4m from the dummy)!. YOU NEED THE SUSTAINED DPS FIXED....IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GAP CLOSING..YOU ARE A BAD PLAYER IF U THINK PTS NEED A GAP CLOSER OR THAT THIS WILL SOMEHOW INCREASE THEIR DPS TO COMPETITIVE LEVELS....

You can all argue tooth and nail for the next 10 years that PTs need a gap closer. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. THAT IS NOT THE CLASS MECHANIC. Please stop suggesting this....It WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Saying "we need a gap closer" will not solve this problem...it makes you look stupid on the forums to the people who actually used them more than 2 weeks because people have said that every patch since 1.1.....When 2.7 rolls around there will be NO GAP CLOSER JET CHARGE ADDED FOR DPS. So, either RE ROLL or L2P PT properly. Read past threads to learn HOW TO PLAY PT properly. You clearly DO NOT UNDERSTAND and it is too hard for you if you think you need a gap closer. GO PLAY ANNIHILATION MARAUDER they have a gap closer on a Very low cooldown...you will enjoy that.

Rant over.

Scenario for you based on your suggestion: Sniper Vs PT in a node fight 1 v 1 from 35m start away from eachother assuming no hydraulic override and jet charge instead.

Sniper: Legshot @ 35 Meters
Sniper: Explosive Probe @ 35 Meters
Sniper: Ambush @ 35 Meters
Sniper: Followthrough

PT - Uses first attack (YOU CANNOT CHARGE A SNIPER!) Don't forget legshot coming again in 8 seconds when hes 25M away again after a roll (Charge and Grapple don't work on sniper!)
You lose 80% to 0%

WHAT? you used your CC breaker on legshot?

Sniper: Flashbang
Sniper: Explosive Probe
Sniper: Ambush
Sniper: Followthrough
Sniper: roll away
Sniper: Leg shot
Sniper: Series of Shots followthrough
Sniper: Takedown

So as you can see....with your change in mechanics are you a completely useless class against any decent sniper and cannot kite Melee at all.....which is terrible because melee will kill you quicker from 4m than you can kill them...

I know you won't understand this. I have tried explaining the whole "jet charge" thing so many times but people don't get the class. They think they need to be on top of everyone and everything and if they get knocked back to 16-17 metres in a raid that they need to "CHARGE BACK" LOL L2P. Learn to use explosive dart. It does more damage than force leap and by the time the GCD you are back within 10m anyways. The only time when PT gap closer would be nice is at 25-30M away..but hey L2P the class and you won't be that far away. Over and out. Rant now officially over. One more thing. L2P
Duran'del here:

I fail to see how we are not a 4m class. We are supposed to use Rocket punch rotationally. 100% chance to proc CGC, 45% chance to proc PPA, increased damage... and that's for Pyro.
AP uses it as resource management and also to proc rail shot autocrits.

And stop saying "L2P" because of has to be the stupidest response ever. People seem to thing its the answer to everything. Your house got robbed? L2P. Your coffee's cold? L2P
The Valiance Legacy, Begeren Colony
"I don't get paid to do the easy jobs, ma'am."- Republic Trooper
Current 50's and 55's

vPLethality AmillarArturon

TheSupaCoopa's Avatar


TheSupaCoopa
03.03.2014 , 06:28 AM | #109
I think a good question to ask would be:

"Compared to the two other tanks, Power techs have very low utility. Whereas Assassins get a healing boost, along with stealth revives, and Juggernauts gain a friendly leap and a raid-wide damage shield. How could Power techs get more utility, without making other tanks less important?"
The Valiance Legacy, Begeren Colony
"I don't get paid to do the easy jobs, ma'am."- Republic Trooper
Current 50's and 55's

vPLethality AmillarArturon

OM-AR's Avatar


OM-AR
03.03.2014 , 06:58 AM | #110
Regarding pve dps so far we have:

1- Give Jet charge with a fire trail talent for dps ( nice AOE and extremely fun mechanic )
2- Remove CD on shoulder cannon, increase damage but put it on a 6-12 seconds cool down this would be a direct increase to dps on both specs, more so on AP.

I'd like to throw out a few:

1- Give retractable blade and incendiary missle a cool down ( e.g. 10 seconds for activation + GCD ) but reduce their Dot duration.
e.g. RB does 2368 internal damage over 15 seconds, 2368 / 15 = 157.9 or 158 dps
Giving it a 9 second time 2368/9 = 263 a nice 105 dps increase. this is excluding critical hits.

2- CGC stacks up to 5 times. HEGC AP tree has prototype ventilation gives HEGC has an added effect of making your next flame thrower instant ( happens once every 15 seconds )

3- Pyro power braces skill revives an added effect of: making rocket punch explodes the periodic damage(s) on the target and instantly give the full damage of the periodic damage instantly.

4- AP loaders receives an added effect of missiles having a 25% chance of instantly finishing cd on flame thrower.

Slow day at work as you can see
The Red Eclipse:
Marauder: OM'AR Assassin: OMAAR Bounty Hunter: O’maar