1 million credits says you don't and you're back posting on these issues within the week.

 

Are you for real? Are you on harb? I'd so take that bet!

Are you for real? Are you on harb? I'd so take that bet!

 

You realise you just lost that bet?

You realise you just lost that bet?

How does saying "I'll take that bet" constitute "posting on these issues"?

/shakeheadwalkaway

Are you for real? Are you on harb? I'd so take that bet!

 

I am indeed and bet on.

I am indeed and bet on.

 

You're on, after this specific post, of course. not that I've been naughty and arguing. I have not.

 

I'm Aisaa on the republic side or Aquinna on the imperial side.

You're on, after this specific post, of course. not that I've been naughty and arguing. I have not.

 

I'm Aisaa on the republic side or Aquinna on the imperial side.

 

Meh just let me know when you think you've won and we'll talk moola

Imma subscriber since I joined this game in 2012. I've been never unsubbing but now I am done.

 

This game has nice graphics, a lot of content for NEW players, inetersting mechanics, own ecomnomic, etc. The game system looks like great and the only thing you need to do to make this game succesful is to put endgame content. I am not interesting in spending my time for the old content while people around me leaving this game. Or grind new gear to do nice numbers in the raid by doing whatever non-raiding 40 hours in a week like a real job.

 

PM if Blizzard buys this game to put a content. So I will call MMORPG players who are looking for a good game.

1. Everyone has an opinion about the game. We are passionate fans so it's unlikely that any one person is going to change the minds of others whether their views are right, wrong, or indifferent.

My problem's never been with opinions about the game. When I talk of falsehoods it's about the accusations against players, not anyone's opinion of the game.

2. I am positively looking forward to the 5.1 changes and will have faith in the devs to changer things but I can't make anyone else see the positives.

That's cool. I don't have that faith anymore but I am still open to checking it when the changes are published. In the end we don't have the full details yet. But I will check it out and not dismiss it before I've seen the actual details of it.

3. I am a player, not BW, so I can't make the game better for anyone either. I can remain helpful to new players but those set in dissatifaction will not change no matter how hard I try.

Of course, but as I said my problem is not with people liking RNG but the false accusations they make about players who don't like this level of RNG. Those lies are inflammatory and are the only real reason why these threads keep going and going. As soon as you join in with the false accusations you become part of the problem and not the solution. So if you want to be helpful, stick to discussing the game, not the posters. That's how I see it. In essence use the behaviour that fits with your goals.

4. Some* people will blame whatever they want and will spin and twist things to fuel their own arguments and I won't waste my time on such posts.

This is what the defenders or white knights have been doing pretty much from the start. Instead of focusing on what they would see as the benefits of this system, they came in with false accusations and ad hominems, trying to prove others wrong instead of showing why they have a point.

That there was a lot of going back and forth in these exchanges so neither side of the discussion is without guilt. But listen.

I said that I do not want SWTOR to die. I said that I liked the story of KotET. I said that I am happy that solo/casual players have access to more gear. I said that I am fine with people liking RNG. I said that in 4.0 it was too easy to get gear and that it warranted toning down. I even gave ideas of how this could've been done.

 

Did you get all that?

 

And what do I get accused of in sweeping generalisations? I was accused of hating everything since KotFE. I was accused of being lazy and wanting to have gear sent to me in mail. I was accused of hating GC as a whole.

 

Now you tell me. Is that even remotely fair or honest?

 

And sure there have been a couple of people that were less reasonable than I've been in that, but most of the people complaining have focused on the level of RNG in GC and so these accusations are just not fair. And this is the main reason why these threads persist. If the defenders believe they're the good guys then for heaven's sake start acting like good guys and stop attacking players with false accusations and just focus on what you think is positive. Don't make up things, don't try to prove other people wrong with opinions and don't use your opinions as facts. Because that's exactly what has been going on here.

 

And that's what is the biggest issue that keeps the negativity going. If that stopped right now, all these threads will disappear. There is nothing wrong with me not liking this new system, but when someone comes to me to pick a fight especially with false accusations, I will finish it.

 

So if anyone thinks himself the good guy/gal here, then prove it. What's the point in being negative about people who are being negative in your view? It just makes for more negativity. The trenches were dug not because of different opinions but because of false accusations against players. I don't know or care who started it, but why is it particularly the white knights or defenders that are the biggest culprits there?

 

Look at it this way. If someone comes here and says they hate the game or whatever, then it's an opinion. When someone replies and tries to counter it, then it becomes a conflict. But it's not a conflict till someone replies to counter it. And realise that countering is not the same as sharing your opinion. So if you don't want the negativity and don't want the bitter fighting on the forums....don't participate. That's all it takes. Don't counter, don't try to accuse people of whatever and don't try to prove people wrong if it's just an opinion. Only then will these threads die down.

 

I've not been fighting people's opinions that they like RNG. I've been fighting the falsehoods and unfair generalisations that have been thrown around.

 

When someone says "you want gear for free because you don't like this RNG" that's an idiotic statement. That's no longer just an opinion, it's an accusation and it's complete nonesense. Someone who says that is not capable of logical thought or not willing. That's where things like cognitive bias and illusory correlation come into play. Trust me, I hate such things 100 times more than I will ever hate RNG.

Hey everyone, TcThief here. It is nice to see some of you share the same frustrations that I have communicated in the stream. Believe me, it pains me to leave this game. I have spent more than a couple of thousand dollars, not to mention the personal relationships I will be severing by leaving. Some of my best friends play and have left and I will ultimately lose contact with them. It really sucks because I love this game so much. But I have reached a point where I am going to let my wallet do the talking. The talking being, It is not acceptable to go 2.5 years with no operations. It is not acceptable to have closed PTS testing and not have legitimate testers testing content to ensure things like reflect don't sway the balance of the game unreasonably. It is not acceptable to break promises. It is not acceptable to have game breaking bugs upon releases of expansions. It is not acceptable to cator to one minority of your audience and IGNORE everyone else. And most of all in is not acceptable to keep your gambase in the dark and not put out information about future content but keep them strung out with the possibility of a live-stream announcement of future ops. I refuse to do this any longer. Like I said I make this decision with a heavy heart because I love this game. But the devs moral and ethical compass is way off. I refuse to let them dig their hands deeper in my pockets with no legitimate statement of the possibility of new 8 and 16 man group content. I have been playing battlefield and I love it. Game was released and the did a hot fix on balance a month after release. The devs at swtor have kind of damaged me because now I approach every game with skeptism and it is unreasonable to do this. Anyways hit me up. I might come back. Might not. I have been youtubing if you wanna check me and Marc from Hates You out we are at http://www.youtube.com/c/ragebrothers

Before you flame me about still being subbed, I am on a time card that runs out in a few weeks.

Edited January 16, 2017 by TcRenno
Time card

I have about 10,000 U.S. dollars invested in this game and I can't bare to login anymore. I want to continue playing, but there is no reason to. There is no reason to continue playing if you are a veteran player who's done almost everything there is to do. In 2013 we had NiM raids to look forward to, something to progress towards. Now this game is a single player game in a MMO environment.

 

The devs HAVE to put out ENDGAME content. REAL endgame content. If they do, many of us will be back. If not, then enjoy paying $180 a year (full price obviously) for a single player game.

In 2013 we had NiM raids to look forward to, something to progress towards. Now this game is a single player game in a MMO environment.

 

The devs HAVE to put out ENDGAME content. REAL endgame content. If they do, many of us will be back. If not, then enjoy paying $180 a year (full price obviously) for a single player game.

That's what plenty of players have been doing all along, though. Subscribing without ever setting foot in raids. That's probably why they moved away from making them.

I have about 10,000 U.S. dollars invested in this game and I can't bare to login anymore. I want to continue playing, but there is no reason to. There is no reason to continue playing if you are a veteran player who's done almost everything there is to do. In 2013 we had NiM raids to look forward to, something to progress towards. Now this game is a single player game in a MMO environment.

 

The devs HAVE to put out ENDGAME content. REAL endgame content. If they do, many of us will be back. If not, then enjoy paying $180 a year (full price obviously) for a single player game.

So the Lotion man was right after all eh?

Edited January 17, 2017 by Talon_strikes

There are things that have been done, since the implementation of GSF that I feel have hurt SWTOR overall. I am not sure I would contend it was a accumulative killing blow, but the following things, IMO mind you, did not help...

 

These items are not necessarily in order.

 

1) GSF being PVP only.

2) Strongholds with hooks.

3) Level sync level range too narrow.

4) FAR too many class changes too close together.

5) Lack of the ability to play with others in KotFE.

6) Forced encounters in KotFE.

7) Far too many crafting changes too close together (though the trade ins for level 9 mats helped).

8) Far too many lockboxes, and focus on the same.

 

And some rather strong deterrents to growth IMO....

 

1) Lack of vigilance when it came to certain exploits.

2) The CSM debacle.

3) The Companion buff/nerf/buff incident.

4) Implementation of the GC system in it's current state, despite strong feedback from testers/community

5) Allowing massive inflation in the following ways...

....a. failing to nerf group bonus credits for far too long.

....b. lack of desirable items that cost credits.

....c. FAR too many items released on the Cartel Market that are rare and can be sold on the GTN.

6) A F2P/Preferred system that continues to be one of the worst in the industry.

 

...add to this list the absolute lack of new repeatable hardcore content for almost 2 years and you have a situation that certainly DOES NOT HELP with retention and player level growth.

 

At the very least these things blunted the expansions impact on the game population levels IMO. They most certainly did not draw in the kind of player levels that I feel they should have considering the high quality of the cinematics, gameplay and storyline.

 

My main problem with this game is that it is too easy to walk away from it for extended periods of time. I can not say the same for other games on the market.

 

The game lacks addictive casual activities. Crafting is in constant flux, character abilities change far too often, Strongholds limit decoration time and invention by design, gathering is no longer a viable game activity, and dailies continue to present an experience that lacks in uniformity.

 

The ability to customize ones appearance rather extensively certainly helps, but as one of the few obsessive casual activities to engage in, it reaches a point where there is no longer reason to obsess over it.

 

If you can't keep casuals engaged, you have to at least hold hardcores, but this game has always struggled to do so.

 

Unfortunately I do not expect this to change any time soon. IMO the game's management needs a fresh infusion of new talent, one that will concentrate on both hardcore content AND obsessive content for casual players.

Edited January 17, 2017 by LordArtemis

I have about 10,000 U.S. dollars invested in this game and I can't bare to login anymore. I want to continue playing, but there is no reason to. There is no reason to continue playing if you are a veteran player who's done almost everything there is to do. In 2013 we had NiM raids to look forward to, something to progress towards. Now this game is a single player game in a MMO environment.

 

The devs HAVE to put out ENDGAME content. REAL endgame content. If they do, many of us will be back. If not, then enjoy paying $180 a year (full price obviously) for a single player game.

 

Yup im around that sum too, I will see how it will go on next week, still not many ppl left in the game anyway.

https://www.twitch.tv/tcthief/v/110680491

 

This was live earlier today. Start the stream at about 1:44 into it is when they pretty much begin. I hope bioware was tuning in when this went live.

 

Has there been an update on this stream or does it stand?

I think the most important thing they said in this twitch chat was that the devs can't get rid of GC because it's the only new content that requires a sub. The other reason to be subbed is Operations.... and we still don't have any new ones.

I think the most important thing they said in this twitch chat was that the devs can't get rid of GC because it's the only new content that requires a sub. The other reason to be subbed is Operations.... and we still don't have any new ones.

 

I'd continue to sub if they got rid of GC, but if they keep it I'm more likely to unsub. I guess they can't win either way. Maybe they should have spent their time and money on new content, not a new gearing system

I'd continue to sub if they got rid of GC, but if they keep it I'm more likely to unsub. I guess they can't win either way. Maybe they should have spent their time and money on new content, not a new gearing system

 

Devs gambled everything on GC RNG, but they didn't even get green loot.

I do not like spending time and money on packs.

I do not like spending time and money on packs to play game.

I have about 10,000 U.S. dollars invested in this game and I can't bare to login anymore. I want to continue playing, but there is no reason to. There is no reason to continue playing if you are a veteran player who's done almost everything there is to do. In 2013 we had NiM raids to look forward to, something to progress towards. Now this game is a single player game in a MMO environment.

 

The devs HAVE to put out ENDGAME content. REAL endgame content. If they do, many of us will be back. If not, then enjoy paying $180 a year (full price obviously) for a single player game.

 

I agree with you. A lot players love to attack certain player types by stating the devs shouldn't, or don't cater to your style anymore, but what they all fail to realize is that they are shooting themselves in the foot by okaying poor dev decision making.

 

The game should cater to ALL player types, and not just one sub set. That is the only way you can have a healthy fully functioning mmo. All mmo's are made up of various player types/aspects, so when you tend to only focus in on one type, and ignore all others, then you really wind up hurting the overall product. We are witnessing that here to the point where the game is close to failing completely.

I agree with you. A lot players love to attack certain player types by stating the devs shouldn't, or don't cater to your style anymore, but what they all fail to realize is that they are shooting themselves in the foot by okaying poor dev decision making.

 

The game should cater to ALL player types, and not just one sub set. That is the only way you can have a healthy fully functioning mmo. All mmo's are made up of various player types/aspects, so when you tend to only focus in on one type, and ignore all others, then you really wind up hurting the overall product. We are witnessing that here to the point where the game is close to failing completely.

 

What you need to realize is what is behind the GC system.

 

They are probably underfunded now which you can see on the lack of communication, support, game bugs etc. The new ops is being released one boss AT A TIME! All that shows their money issues. This also leads to problems in game with people leaving.

 

Now what would you do? You have a very limited budget of where you cant introduce new content fast enough and people are leaving? What do you do in order to keep people subbed and invest minimal money? Simple you create events like the DvsL which only require the people to again play the game and content that there is.

 

GC which again only requires the people to play the game as it is, nothing new added. GC was a way to add a system that would force people to be subbed and save Development time and money. Overall from a managers point of view this move was very good as it cost little to make something "new" and try to keep people subbed.

 

Having said that the system did fail as the idea was good but only on paper as most people cant be bothered with it. The only other choice Bioware has is to bargain with EA for more money and this is what is sad about Bioware, they cant get funds for swtor.