I've been playing a Hybrid Heal/DPS Sage and a Tank/DPS Guardian starting back from Beta.

 

I HATE being shoved into the box of "you can only be X play style"

 

It is F'ing boring. It is precisely what KILLED SWG for me when they left the awesome "pick your style" system and went to the "everyone is basically the same" NGE. Which as you are well aware nuked that game.

 

This is almost as bad. Talk about downgrading, dumb'ing down and catering to the simpletons.

 

Removing dot cure and making it CC purge is destroying the last bastion of hope for us players who hate the cookie cutter system. If you are going to destroy my preferred play style, shove us Hybrid players into a box... at least give Crowd Controllers some love.

 

And please, I reviewed and re-reviewed the Discipline system... you make it seem like there will be diversity, but there wont. It is chalked full of "you have to pick this utility for your cookie cutter template or you're screwed."

 

In summary Bioware... you are destroying diversity, you are destroying a beloved play style, and you are destroying any hope of being unique. Now it is going to be nothing but FOTM class + gear = win. That will completely destroy this game for me.

 

Can you PLEASE rethink this and give us a little Lizard Spock option in this new poodoo system? Give some REAL diversity to that utility system.

Edited October 8, 2014 by OrionSol

The game isn't balanced around hybrid specs. They are extremely problematic for the designers/developers because they are not an intention of the design.

 

Yes, low level skills from other trees were purposely available to make things interesting. Going half-way up two trees and collecting the best of both worlds was never intended. It also screws with PvE and PvP balancing.

 

There is nothing worse than a ranked WZ that looks like 4 DPS and its really 3 DPS and a healer. People have been abusing the hybrid spec to get placed in 4v4 DPS ranked match when in reality they can heal much too effectively.

 

Good bye hybrid specs. I, personally, won't miss you.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Arkerus

Enjoy the lack of diversity then. You're getting what you asked for.

Enjoy the lack of diversity then. You're getting what you asked for.

 

Sorry! What diversity? Most people all run the same FoTM specs that parse the best anyway. Path of least resistance is in human nature.

The perceived diversity never really existed.

 

There is nothing unique about your DPS/Heal Sage or your Tank/DPS Guardian. In fact, they are probably as popular as the other pure builds. And that means that there are probably all of 4 or 5 varieties of Sage and 4 varieties of Guardian. Actually, there are probably just 3 major varieties of Guardian, as I'm pretty confident there are far more Hybrid Guardians than Focus Guardians.

 

It's not like there are dozens of drastically, or even noticeably different builds out there. How many Tank Guardians opt not to get Guardian Slash? How many Vigilance Guardians opt not to get Plasma Brand? How many hybrid builds opt to go hybrid, but only for the utility abilities?

 

I'm a big fan of diversity. I want more of it. The Skill Trees weren't giving it to us, even though mathematically, it looked like they did. In truth, they gave you a small number of good builds, a couple imbalanced builds, and a large number of obviously bad builds. That might be diversity, but its diverse in a bad way.

Based on the Sorcerer livestream yesterday, you can go dps spec and add some nice healing abilities to be more of a kiting player or add damage abilities to be more brute force dps.

I may be mistaken, but from the stream yesterday, weren't there still choices to be made in your respective discipline specialties? I wasn't able to listen, but I did watch what I could...

I may be mistaken, but from the stream yesterday, weren't there still choices to be made in your respective discipline specialties? I wasn't able to listen, but I did watch what I could...

There are choices, it's not 100% cookie-cutter, but for those players who play full-blown Hybrid specs their preferred setup is indeed getting excised from the game.

 

I think, in the end, it is probably a worthwhile tradeoff for the game as a whole, but it is a tradeoff, and some players like OP are getting the short end of the stick. That happens sometimes.

 

(Personally I prefer the Skill Tree design over the Specialization/Discipline design, but the change isn't a dealbreaker for me - I'll adapt, but then I never played a hybrid in the first place.)

Edited October 8, 2014 by DarthDymond

Fk hybrids.

If the game couldn't "handle" a hybrid build, then that's a design flaw and shouldn't be taken out on the players because the Devs can't figure out a workaround.

 

Just so I'm clear here, we're going from three talent trees to one, somebody other than me decides the "base spec" (or whatever they're calling it) and this is supposed to provide MORE choice vis-a-vis character development?

 

Some folks on this board would defend EA /BW if the latter ate babies for breakfast.

If the game couldn't "handle" a hybrid build, then that's a design flaw and shouldn't be taken out on the players because the Devs can't figure out a workaround.

 

Just so I'm clear here, we're going from three talent trees to one, somebody other than me decides the "base spec" (or whatever they're calling it) and this is supposed to provide MORE choice vis-a-vis character development?

 

Some folks on this board would defend EA /BW if the latter ate babies for breakfast.

 

There are still three trees...

If the game couldn't "handle" a hybrid build, then that's a design flaw and shouldn't be taken out on the players because the Devs can't figure out a workaround.

 

Just so I'm clear here, we're going from three talent trees to one, somebody other than me decides the "base spec" (or whatever they're calling it) and this is supposed to provide MORE choice vis-a-vis character development?

 

Some folks on this board would defend EA /BW if the latter ate babies for breakfast.

 

You seem very confused about what is actually happening. I suggest watching the stream from yesterday or reading a summary (e.g., Dulfy's).

If the game couldn't "handle" a hybrid build, then that's a design flaw and shouldn't be taken out on the players because the Devs can't figure out a workaround.

 

Just so I'm clear here, we're going from three talent trees to one, somebody other than me decides the "base spec" (or whatever they're calling it) and this is supposed to provide MORE choice vis-a-vis character development?

 

No, there are still 3 per AC. If you missed that, you might go back and watch the stream again (I've watched it twice.) You get basic abilities as you level and then periodically you get to pick utility items (7 or 8 between levels 10 and 60.) There are several to choose from.

 

They are going to do blogs and streams showing the other classes and do some streams showing the changes to combat as well. Before you, or anyone else, explodes you might want to wait and see what those other streams and blogs show.

 

Personally, I'd love a chance to play in the beta so I could have input on how it all works and have a chance to have input on how to make things work. I expect those invites will be very limited however, so I don't expect to get the chance. But I'd rather hope for that than sit on the forum and gripe about something that we, so far, know very little about.

Apparently my definitions need some updating. I thought "hybrid" was when you put points in more than one skill/talent/expertise/whatever tree to get additional functionality and utility abilities... which it seems is exactly what the discipline system will do without me having to waste points on stuff I don't want or need. Alternatively hybrid means playing a class capable of assuming more than one role, which is allready possible for every single class barring Marauder/Sentinel. Seems I'm in need of a dictionary though to figure out what these things are if not playing hybrid.

If the game couldn't "handle" a hybrid build, then that's a design flaw and shouldn't be taken out on the players because the Devs can't figure out a workaround.

 

Just so I'm clear here, we're going from three talent trees to one, somebody other than me decides the "base spec" (or whatever they're calling it) and this is supposed to provide MORE choice vis-a-vis character development?

 

Some folks on this board would defend EA /BW if the latter ate babies for breakfast.

 

Not going to call this a defense. I have not seen or tried the new system myself so I can't objectively say it is better.

 

You are however incorrect in your assessment. The three trees of each advanced class are still going to be in the game (some shared trees may be renamed). At any given moment, you will be progressing or capped on one tree, but can change to the other within the allow respec windows (out of combat, outside of an active operations encounter).

 

I personally think this is a reasonable solution to the inevitable problem of the new hybrid specs that would have emerged as a result of having an additional 5 skill points. I would love to see the math that shows how many new permutations would have been available with just the existing skill trees and then see the speculated overpowered specs.

Not going to call this a defense. I have not seen or tried the new system myself so I can't objectively say it is better.

 

You are however incorrect in your assessment. The three trees of each advanced class are still going to be in the game (some shared trees may be renamed). At any given moment, you will be progressing or capped on one tree, but can change to the other within the allow respec windows (out of combat, outside of an active operations encounter).

 

I personally think this is a reasonable solution to the inevitable problem of the new hybrid specs that would have emerged as a result of having an additional 5 skill points. I would love to see the math that shows how many new permutations would have been available with just the existing skill trees and then see the speculated overpowered specs.

 

I see the point, but I just have the lack of diversity in the new system.

I see the point, but I just have the lack of diversity in the new system.

 

The only real diversity lost is the untested and unbalanced hybrids.

 

The diversity added is that each discipline can choose PVE and PVP oriented utilities as needed.

I see the point, but I just have the lack of diversity in the new system.

 

There is more diversity in the new system actually.

 

Until skill trees there was only really one way to do each tree, and the utilities where locked into the trees. Under the new systems the utilities are no longer tree bounds so there are really more setups to be had.

What did your other thread get removed or something? Can't imagine why...

 

Edit: oh nvmd you just felt like making another one of the exact same topic... go away.

Edited October 8, 2014 by g_land

There is more diversity in the new system actually.

 

Until skill trees there was only really one way to do each tree, and the utilities where locked into the trees. Under the new systems the utilities are no longer tree bounds so there are really more setups to be had.

 

If by more you mean less.

If by more you mean less.

 

Well ok, I guess I can't force you to open you eyes and step out of ignorance.

If by more you mean less.

 

The only thing really lost are those hybrids that actually gained active abilities from other trees. Sorcs getting thundering blast and death field for example. Much if the allure of hybrids though were getting certain utilities from other trees. This would create a deficiency in your primary role. Now, for the most part you'll be able to get several of those utilities without the trade off.

 

No longer will you pretty much immediately know what toolset a player has when you come across them. With the different utilities two lightning sorcs will play quite a bit differently.

 

In my opinion, and I have a topic expressing this, there will actually be more diversity.

The only thing really lost are those hybrids that actually gained active abilities from other trees. Sorcs getting thundering blast and death field for example. Much if the allure of hybrids though were getting certain utilities from other trees. This would create a deficiency in your primary role. Now, for the most part you'll be able to get several of those utilities without the trade off.

 

No longer will you pretty much immediately know what toolset a player has when you come across them. With the different utilities two lightning sorcs will play quite a bit differently.

 

In my opinion, and I have a topic expressing this, there will actually be more diversity.

 

I believe you're right that the main thing being lost is the "unexpected" hybrid builds that players were able to achieve - the Devs simply can't be expected to test and balance every combination that 1 million players will come up with (some intentional, some through naiveness).

 

This new system seems to keep the option to choose unique abilities intact, allowing us all to be somewhat "different" if that's your goal, but it certainly doesn't add more diversity...it's less for certain...but it's (hopefully) a good "less" vs. a bad less...less mistakes by players who pick a little from all 3 trees and less OP builds from those who find ways to go above intended limits.

 

I'm very anxious to see how it plays out.

Edited October 8, 2014 by TUXs

I believe you're right that the main thing being lost is the "unexpected" hybrid builds that players were able to achieve - the Devs simply can't be expected to test and balance every combination that 1 million players will come up with (some intentional, some through naiveness).

 

This new system seems to keep the option to choose unique abilities intact, allowing us all to be somewhat "different" if that's your goal, but it certainly doesn't add more diversity...it's less for certain...but it's (hopefully) a good "less" vs. a bad less...less mistakes by players who pick a little from all 3 trees and less OP builds from those who find ways to go above intended limits.

 

I'm very anxious to see how it plays out.

 

Well said.

If the game couldn't "handle" a hybrid build, then that's a design flaw and shouldn't be taken out on the players because the Devs can't figure out a workaround.

t.

 

They did figure out a work around, they changed the system to stop it.