Aint it neat how ALL OF THIS NONSENSE would be fixed if there were cross-server queues, with separate solo and group brackets?

Then, there would be no problems. None. No, everyone would not click "Enter" at the exact same time, every single time, and somehow cancel it all out and make everyone wait longer.

It. Would. Fix. All. Problems.

What a bunch of wailing and crying and lying over such a simple fix. And it would be a fix. (makes me think it's really about something else)

Also makes me wonder why one side really doesn't want this to happen. (guess which "side"?)

Actually, don't have to wonder much at all.

ps. if you're not sure which side don't want things to change, the next time you queue solo and go against a PreMade, isolate someone on the other side. Go 1 on 1. You'll find out real quick which side is frantically lobbying against a fix, and why.

So you want someone to join a guild. Alright to all you solo queuers out there, apply to the best or one of the best PVP guilds on your server.

 

Wait...they won't take you? Why?

1. You aren't the right AC

2. You don't have the Gear

3. We already got our people.

4. You are a commando.

 

Yup you offered some valid suggestions, it's a shame they don't actually work. I'm glad you admit that Gear> Skill as far as pvp goes though.

+1

Exactly doesn't matter how well I play, I see it in general all the time "Forming a group, must be well geared." Guess I should just sit on nodes to collect the max amount of comm's possible from the PUG stomping so I can have gear and be a ****** player if that's what it takes to actually join a group then I can build up my skills.

Tridus,

I pug 95% of the time because I absolutely despise pugstomping. The only time I do premade is occasionally on my pub chars since I know I will usually fight an imp premade during primetime.

I am not trying to keep the system as is. I HAVE PLAYED GAMES THAT HAVE HAD THESE SAME PROBLEMS AND THEN IMPLEMENTED THE SYSTEM I AM TALKING ABOUT AND GREATLY HELPED THE PROBLEM!

I don't premade often unless I know I will fight other premades. I prefer to premade since it is an mmo and teamwork is fun, however there is no teamwork needed to stomp recruit pugs and that bores even faster than getting pugstomped since at least then I can have some challenging fights and really work on my skills.

lol only thing killing regular warzones are the masses of bads.

LMAO, yeah, sure, keep telling yourself that, hero.

You're awesome.

Keep hiding behind your team. (you'd all prolly backpeddle, hiding behind each other)

Anyhow, to the adults, yeah, we know what it is, we know why it is, and so does the entire gaming world.

200 million, down the drain. The biggest fail in gaming history. And cowards are hiding in it. And doing every single thing they can to make sure their fantasy-land maintains. The only place where they matter.

Doing every thing possible to make sure they stay there. While pretending it's got something to do with them.

(wonder how many of them traded valor on Illum?)

Tridus,

 

I pug 95% of the time because I absolutely despise pugstomping. The only time I do premade is occasionally on my pub chars since I know I will usually fight an imp premade during primetime.

 

I am not trying to keep the system as is. I HAVE PLAYED GAMES THAT HAVE HAD THESE SAME PROBLEMS AND THEN IMPLEMENTED THE SYSTEM I AM TALKING ABOUT AND GREATLY HELPED THE PROBLEM!

 

I don't premade often unless I know I will fight other premades. I prefer to premade since it is an mmo and teamwork is fun, however there is no teamwork needed to stomp recruit pugs and that bores even faster than getting pugstomped since at least then I can have some challenging fights and really work on my skills.

I'm sorry if my post seem like I'm hunting you down and only you. When I usually call out people it's more of a broad stroke. I do admit solo bracket won't work without cross server queue's, so I am up for more than one option to solve this problem.

I am not sorry for debunking false ideas like only matchmaking would help. So I will gladly continue to utterly destroy any argument presented in that case.

Man people don't read these days. I said I look for anything that resembles the most basic of team compositions. If I have one or two PvPers that are online in my guild we are grouping since our ultimate goal is getting a ranked team. I don't log in and say well hey they're a few of us online and even though we joined a guild to socialize and do group for anything really...lets just solo queue and see what happens.

You missed the point. Re-read things and come again please.

*smacks self on the forehead, also know as *facepalm.*

 

Ya still don't get it.

 

Some solo players complain that the reason they can't be bothered to make 1-3 friends and play with them when available is a lack of "time."

 

Then their response is that Premade players should find 4 more people and do ranked, rather than play in non-ranked warzones. The same argument can be said for a Premade player, that they do not form exactly 8 people and do ranked because of time constraints.

 

The difference is that is the Solo player doesn't form into a group because of lack of time, they can still PLAY. If group oriented players can not form 7 other people (7 is greater than 1-3) for ranked (where ya'll say they should be) do to lack of time, that player CAN'T PLAY at all.

 

-.- in the age of equality, I think they forgot to tell people what inequality means.

Glad you admit ranked pvp is dieing, I guess that's par for the course since you did openly admit you want the game to die off unless you get your way. That being said...

So you are saying it's a issue for groups because they can't muster that one extra guy, hence the reason why they jump in normal warzones. Because that's the only reason why they are avoiding ranked pvp of course

Anyways,

So if you want to still be able to group with friends and join pvp matches and PLAY(since you like caps so much), how about a bracket for people like you....like 4 man or 2 man groups only bracket. Then you can actually PLAY while the solo queuer can PLAY and then everyone can PLAY.

Or we can stick with the current system, which does in fact let everyone PLAY but here is how it goes.

Premade PLAYS in a match

Pugs PLAY in the same match

Roflstomp happens.

Pugs STOP PLAY due to lack of further interest.

premades STOP PLAY due to nobody queueing anymore.

Hey but adding a solo queue bracket would only cause queue problems, unlike the current system which is "fine" according to most premades.

lol only thing killing regular warzones are the masses of bads.

The bads come in all flavors though. Seen them on PUGs and seen them on premades. It's fun when one on a premade team memebers thinks he is a ****** because he has a team holding his hand, and he decides to break off from a node and go after me as I am passing by in the distance thinking "it's a merc I killed him before when I had 2 healers healing me." then gets completely pwned inside of about 3 secs. Premades tend to hide behind one another which is fine by me (kind of the point) but as a PUGer I am use to throwing down with 3 players at once when it's just a 1 sided stompfest, so when that one guy thinks he is the **** cause he won last time cause he had 2 healers healing him and tries fight me one on one.... it's a rude awakening and I make it my personal mission to pick him out, suck him into the open and kill him over and over. Hell I might as well farm medals off killing that one guy 20 times, if the premade group is doing the same thing to my team.

Aint it neat how ALL OF THIS NONSENSE would be fixed if there were cross-server queues, with separate solo and group brackets?

...

 

It. Would. Fix. All. Problems.

Backfilling and filling for incomplete premades (2-3 players.) That logistical problem is not fixed by split queue's, therefore your answer doesn't fix all problems.

(Notice, a proper matchmaking that matches based on -some- criteria be it win/loss ratio, valor rank, or maybe highest average gear level ever equipped, would avoid the above issue, while serving the same purpose of the split queue system.)

What a bunch of wailing and crying and lying over such a simple fix. And it would be a fix. (makes me think it's really about something else)

 

...

 

ps. if you're not sure which side don't want things to change, the next time you queue solo and go against a PreMade, isolate someone on the other side. Go 1 on 1. You'll find out real quick which side is frantically lobbying against a fix, and why.

Won't ever happen. Even if you managed to get me "isolated" I wouldn't fight you. I'd either delay you till help arrives if I'm in a critical location, move to said critical location (and thus help), or simply allow you to kill me. Me fighting you in the middle of nowhere serves no purpose to team/objective play and I'd serve the team better by dying and redeploying to a critical location.

Glad you admit ranked pvp is dieing, I guess that's par for the course since you did openly admit you want the game to die off unless you get your way. That being said...

1. Never said ranked wasing dying.

2. My quote is "I would rather see ToR die and be remembered for going down trying, than become so easy that logging in rewards you." Has nothing to do about getting my way, (which btw -my- way -is- to make it easier for PuG's to have "fun." You just never seem to understand it.)

So you are saying it's a issue for groups because they can't muster that one extra guy, hence the reason why they jump in normal warzones. Because that's the only reason why they are avoiding ranked pvp of course

Basic principle of equality. 2 = 2, 3 =3, 4 = 4.

Premades consist of an individual who has found 3 other like minded players and grouped with them. The individual is known as Premader, and he plays in a Premade.

A solo'er (or PuG) is a single individual who doesn't group. Now, the Solo'er loses to the Premader more, because his non-group (or random) loses to the Premader's group. The Premader tells the Solo'er that if they found 3 friends (a task the Premader has -already- done) they would have better chances.

The Solo'er replies that the Premader should find 4 -more- friends and do ranked (with a witty attempt to insult their macho-ness).

No matter how you look at it, on the basic principle of equality, you as the solo player are insisting that the Premader do -more- work than you are willing to do. 4 isn't equal to 3, 7 isn't equal to 3.

(Fyi, if you and I were working together, I would not ask you to clean a toilet if I would not do so myself. Yet by the above example, you would have me a clean a toilet because you are unwilling to do so.)

So if you want to still be able to group with friends and join pvp matches and PLAY(since you like caps so much), how about a bracket for people like you....like 4 man or 2 man groups only bracket. Then you can actually PLAY while the solo queuer can PLAY and then everyone can PLAY.

In that example, a 3 man group can not PLAY. In that example, if there are 14 premaders (of what ever set up of premades) and/or 15 solo'ers in queue, a total of 29 people can not PLAY.

Also in that example, if someone D/C's (or omg, misses the queue) in the Group Queue, that group is gimped the entire match.

Or we can stick with the current system, which does in fact let everyone PLAY but here is how it goes.

Premade PLAYS in a match

Pugs PLAY in the same match

Roflstomp happens.

Roflstomp happens not because the Premaders are "Good" but because the PuG's are "Bad." A Good PuG group can atleast meanage a close loss against a Good Premade.

Pugs STOP PLAY due to lack of further interest.

premades STOP PLAY due to nobody queueing anymore.

 

Hey but adding a solo queue bracket would only cause queue problems, unlike the current system which is "fine" according to most premades.

I haven't said the current system is fine. You are refusing to hear and understand my words and the balancing system I advocate.

Also, please note the death of PvP in the above example (PuG's Stop Playing due to...) comes from the PuG's giving up first, not the Premades. <.< Wouldn't that mean PuG's killed PvP?

 

ps. if you're not sure which side don't want things to change, the next time you queue solo and go against a PreMade, isolate someone on the other side. Go 1 on 1. You'll find out real quick which side is frantically lobbying against a fix, and why.

 

I am about 85% PUG 15% group. Try and take me 1v1. I built my merc around being a target. People look at me and think "Hey it's a merc and I am blah blah" because mercs are the worst PVP class because of utility. that's where skill comes in. I enjoy finding that one guy that is basicly being carried by his premade and thinks he is so good and getting him to pull noob mistakes, like chasing me down. If I am going to get PUGstomped I am going to find that one or 2 idiots, and farm them just like the premades are farming my team.

Also, please note the death of PvP in the above example (PuG's Stop Playing due to...) comes from the PuG's giving up first, not the Premades. <.< Wouldn't that mean PuG's killed PvP?

No, It's like this Abraham Lincoln got shot in the head, Who's fault is it? Booth who pulled the trigger, maybe the gun or bullet?

Booth = premades

Gun = messed up PVP system

Bullet = PUG's

Lincoln = actual PVP

Premades use faulty system to dominate (Booth using a gun to get what he wants.) Eventually the majority of people will leave the game the majority are PUGS (The bullet leaves the gun because Booth pulled the trigger.) The eventuality of it is no more PVP for all because no one ques anymore. What once was good is no more because of a small group that wanted everything to be thier way (Booth (premade) wants it to be his way an no one elses because he doesn't like how the country is, he makes a plot gets a gun (the faulty PVP system) and uses it to his advantage. The bullet leaves the gun because Booth pulled the trigger forcing the bullet to leave (PUG's forced to leave because the PVP aspect is completely 1 sided and not worth playing.) Now Lincoln is dead because the minority got what they wanted (No more PUG's = longer Ques = the game bleeds out and dies.)

Also, please note the death of PvP in the above example (PuG's Stop Playing due to...) comes from the PuG's giving up first, not the Premades. <.< Wouldn't that mean PuG's killed PvP?

Classic "blame the victim" tactics. They're no more convincing here than they are anyone else. That's like blaming someone's head for getting hit with a bullet and not the one who fired it. Pure stupidity.

Backfilling and filling for incomplete premades (2-3 players.) That logistical problem is not fixed by split queue's, therefore your answer doesn't fix all problems.

 

(Notice, a proper matchmaking that matches based on -some- criteria be it win/loss ratio, valor rank, or maybe highest average gear level ever equipped, would avoid the above issue, while serving the same purpose of the split queue system.)

.

I'm of the opinion - and I realize I'm in the minority here - that there shouldn't be any back fill in WZs. furthermore, if there's more than a 2 player difference in the numbers, then the WZ will automatically shutdown. here's my rationale:

• you're never going to stop ppl from dropping for w/e reason - no penalties are gong to work. they never do, and they punish ppl for dcs.
  
• the person who back fills usually gets thrown into a bad situation, and he's not happy about it. he might just leave asap, which only hurts his team more and prevents/delays a shutdown
  
• if i'm on the team getting throttled, rather than a revolving door of back fills, I'd rather the WZ just end so I can get into a competitive wz
  

valor is easily cheatable with legacy gear. so that's not anymore valid than gear while queueing. probably less so. not sure how to make a criteria outside of wins/losses.

Classic "blame the victim" tactics. They're no more convincing here than they are anyone else. That's like blaming someone's head for getting hit with a bullet and not the one who fired it. Pure stupidity.

Nice, ignored all the other arguments I made and focused on the one off-hand comment. ^_^ you would do well in American politics.

As for blaming the victim, we're not talking about women who get *****, or people who get mugged walking down the street, or the husband who get's killed by his wife for cheating on her.

We are talking about people playing a game, who lose mainly due to a lack of effort (wether you like it or not, grinding, teaming, and "skill" are all measures of effort) and then give up.

I'm of the opinion - and I realize I'm in the minority here - that there shouldn't be any back fill in WZs. furthermore, if there's more than a 2 player difference in the numbers, then the WZ will automatically shutdown. here's my rationale:

• you're never going to stop ppl from dropping for w/e reason - no penalties are gong to work. they never do, and they punish ppl for dcs.
  
• the person who back fills usually gets thrown into a bad situation, and he's not happy about it. he might just leave asap, which only hurts his team more and prevents/delays a shutdown
  
• if i'm on the team getting throttled, rather than a revolving door of back fills, I'd rather the WZ just end so I can get into a competitive wz
  

 

valor is easily cheatable with legacy gear. so that's not anymore valid than gear while queueing. probably less so. not sure how to make a criteria outside of wins/losses.

We'll agree to disagree on the issue of backfill.

I said Valor rank as an example, which would be more fair then the current first 16 people in queue fight it out. I think either a win/loss ratio like ranked (just invisible) or... I think the matching should be based on the highest average gear level you've ever equipped. So if a person equips Full WH, they can't trick the system by wearing recruit, it will assume they have Full WH and try to match a person based on Full WH.

PvE gear might be an issue there, though it could either be wighed differently, or itcould be assumed Rakata is only slightly inferior to BM, BH is slightly inferior to WH, and Dreadguard... well that's Dreadguard.

We are talking about people playing a game, who lose mainly due to a lack of effort (wether you like it or not, grinding, teaming, and "skill" are all measures of effort) and then give up.

Lack of effort isn't always the case, i do agree there are some sloths on the game. They are on both sides though. The PUGer that expects everything to be given to him and when he gets into a match goes to node and sits on it never moving and rakes in the comms. Then you have the premader guy has absoulutly no skill but hides behind the rest of his group awith 2 healers healing him thinks he is a God among men, putting forth no effort by leeching from his team.

My first Char hit level 50 and immediately I saved up enough comms to get all the BM visable gear and put augments into it all. I play smart and do what I can to better whatever class I am playing. I am constently checking out builds for my classes and seeing how other people play to see if I can learn something new. I however tend to lose a lot more then I win. It's not because I am a horrible player and it's not always because I am paired with horrible players. It's That i get outclassed when it comes to my PUG team VS the premade team. It's like any sport you can have a star player but it doesn't matter if the rest of the team is crap. (not saying I am the best of the best, far from it but I take pride in that I am good and get commented on it.) But to get in a decent premade isn't easy as you all make it out to be especially if you have only been playing for 2 months why you may be asking because most premades/guilds are set in how they are and you have to meet their criteria.

1. You aren't the right AC

2. You don't have the Gear

3. We already got our people.

4. You are a commando.

So I lose and drive on doing solo ques and maybe someday I will catch up with the "requirements" but it has nothing to do with lack of effort. has to do with elites being elites and wanting to keep it that way.

Lets get rational please.

Do you believe the current system will help sustain and grow a healthy pvp population?

Do you believe that the majority of people who have entered pvp matches are rather unhappy with the current system and that this could be one reason for lost money?

Do you believe at least a decent portion of their problems relate to getting destroyed?

If you answered these ...no, yes, yes then we need to do something to fix people getting stomped constantly.

The options are solo q or premade matching as far as I can see (open to suggestions).

Solo q will only work with cross server. Cross server I'm sure BW would love to do but for some reason can't (money/time/people/ability? idk and neither do you).

Premade matching is all that I see that is left.

Look I'm open to other suggestions as I love pvp and I love star wars but I don't LOGICALLY see another way.

I never said this is perfect but this is how the world works. Suck it up and help fix the game.

1. You aren't the right AC

2. You don't have the Gear

3. We already got our people.

4. You are a commando.

 

So I lose and drive on doing solo ques and maybe someday I will catch up with the "requirements" but it has nothing to do with lack of effort. has to do with elites being elites and wanting to keep it that way.

1. I am a Commando (Dps or Heals as needed, Grinded the WH being DPS)

2. I was Premading (and PuG'ing) since recruit. I managed it by being in a guild (leveled in it) and asking "Anyone for a group?

3. Sometimes there isn't a spot. Guild Groups atleast have a little loyalty to give you a spot over friends (sometimes.)

4. See 1. I am a Commando.

I do not mean that you in particular are "lazy" and I'm sure you put a good effort in while fighting, but there is -more- effort you can put in, and I'm sure you know it. The point I'm making is that we're not talking about victims here. PuG's are not victims. They are willing combatants (no one forced them to queue for pvp) and if they quit because the competition is too hard, then the fault for dying queue times can just as easily (if not more) rest on them, as it can on "overpowered" premaders.

1. I am a Commando (Dps or Heals as needed, Grinded the WH being DPS)

2. I was Premading (and PuG'ing) since recruit. I managed it by being in a guild (leveled in it) and asking "Anyone for a group?

3. Sometimes there isn't a spot. Guild Groups atleast have a little loyalty to give you a spot over friends (sometimes.)

4. See 1. I am a Commando.

 

I do not mean that you in particular are "lazy" and I'm sure you put a good effort in while fighting, but there is -more- effort you can put in, and I'm sure you know it. The point I'm making is that we're not talking about victims here. PuG's are not victims. They are willing combatants (no one forced them to queue for pvp) and if they quit because the competition is too hard, then the fault for dying queue times can just as easily (if not more) rest on them, as it can on "overpowered" premaders.

It's always "you can do more" everyone can always "do more" so that is a lousy excuse. Your right no one forces me to que. it's either that or quit. what would you like for me to do? hurt the que or continue to get smoked. Now imagine that on a larger scale. The reasons I listed are completely valid as I see it in general all the time "looking for WELL GEARED players for a group." I don't complain about anyone being OP or boo hoo this and that I simple say some people do not have the option for whatever reason. This thread wouldn' be this long if there wasnt a problem and everyone was happy.

I am curious as to how long you have been playing because I get the feeling you have been around for awhile back when everyone one was trying to make guilds and get people to join them.those times have passed the only guilds that form up are the random person that asks for people to join just so they can have a guild tag then they boot everyone or the established that want nothing to do with you unless you are topish teir.

It's always "you can do more" everyone can always "do more" so that is a lousy excuse. Your right no one forces me to que. it's either that or quit. what would you like for me to do? hurt the que or continue to get smoked. Now imagine that on a larger scale.

Yes, there is the "you can always do more." Yet look at the average "successful" match as described by those pushing for a split queue. It is a premade with generally good composition, decent players and decent gear (and voice chat).

Of those 4 things, what can a solo queue change about their "playstyle" to be more "successful?"

Voice chat isn't available to all so that's out (I've noted this is using 3rd party software for an advantage). Gear comms with time, so while people who win more get gear faster, any "play style" will eventually get good gear.

So then you have decent players, and good composition. Self improvement is something that every one can work on. So the only thing left that you can do, and it's a small step... is class compositon. Coming down to once again, the best and easiest way to improve your chances is to fill your friendslist or guild list, and draw upon fellow players to form groups.

The reasons I listed are completely valid as I see it in general all the time "looking for WELL GEARED players for a group." I don't complain about anyone being OP or boo hoo this and that I simple say some people do not have the option for whatever reason. This thread wouldn' be this long if there wasnt a problem and everyone was happy.

Two things here:

Forming groups and building community is more tan just spamming in chat for 3 well geared players. It's leveling in a guild, adding good players you see to your friendslist, and at some point just sending one tiny whisper. "Hey, I got an hour, wanna pvp together?" Maybe it's a no, maybe it's a yes, maybe it's "We're full" but whatever it is, next time they have a spot open maybe they'll think of you.

Second thing:

I haven't said there -isn't- a problem, but the problem can't even be decided upon, nor can the solution. Some say it's premades, some say it's pugs, some say it's gear, some say it's class imbalance, some say it's al Jar-Jar's fault. Personally, I think the problem is many-fold (combination of gear, skill, and effort) and the answer is compitent matchmaking based on some criteria.

I am curious as to how long you have been playing because I get the feeling you have been around for awhile back when everyone one was trying to make guilds and get people to join them.those times have passed the only guilds that form up are the random person that asks for people to join just so they can have a guild tag then they boot everyone or the established that want nothing to do with you unless you are topish teir.

I played at launch, my first 50 was about a week after they split the 50's from the Pre-50's. I leveled 3 toons (Merc, Sin, Sniper) to 50, and had each of them full champion, with my merc beginning to gather BM when 1.2 hit. Due to some friends, I moved to a new server and leveled a 4th 50 (sorc) before leaving shortly before 1.3

I returned somewhere after 1.4 I think and the server mergers. My friendlist had been wiped, as had my guilds. My guild has disbanded/left/moved and so I rolled a Commando. I leveled her until I joined a guild mid 30's. From there I researched the current configuration of PvP, saved my comms and prepared for level 50. Along the way I grouped with both guildies, friends of guildies, and people I'd added to my friendslist.

I hit 50 about 2 weeks before Mk2 recruit (so I received Mk1, doubly screwed) and began the WH grind, using Premades when I could, and PuG'ing (or partial premades) when I couldn't or when I didn't want to. My friendslist on my new main is about 25 names long with an average of 5 people on. I've also gone through 1 guild disband (most of us reformed) and 1 guild merger on this character, and we sit at between 4-8 guild members on most of the time.

I did most of my WH grind as a dps at the popular request of guildies/friends (I had many healer friends), and then because I enjoy healing, switched to mainly healing for both our occasional raid and PvP (with the hopes of being the designated Commando Healer in ranked.)

I've started to regear my imps now, though they all almost restarted at recruit mk1, without the benefit of 2000/3000 saved comms. I'm personally a little too lazy to fill out their friendslist/guild, and accept that I get bad teams often from not doing so. I've also taken an interest in raising an Operative for a friends Imp-side Guild (whom I will send some gear from my commando via legacy).

So I don't know why you've experienced something else, but in the time between 1.4 (and mergers) and 1.5 I've had no trouble being social and establishing myself back from nothing.