Aren't these already playable on both sides?

Human unlocks a presence buff. Cyborg unlocks all Cyborg appearance options for all.

Letting players buy there legacey unlocks and not making them unlock them threw the legacey system is a complete joke. and its making me rethink about if i should keep playing. mmos are going down this boring road that just gives you everything with out really having to work 4 it. there is zero grinding in this game besides legacey points and now those points are pointless. as everyone and there lil brother can just do daily missions and pay for 95% of the legacey unlocks and not actually have to earn them. threw grinding and making alts.

whats next we can buy our pve marks with in game cash so we really dont even have to raid to have top end gear? im soo sick of mmos dumbing everything down and making everything so easy so bad players can think they have skill.

Letting players buy there legacey unlocks and not making them unlock them threw the legacey system is a complete joke. and its making me rethink about if i should keep playing. mmos are going down this boring road that just gives you everything with out really having to work 4 it. there is zero grinding in this game besides legacey points and now those points are pointless. as everyone and there lil brother can just do daily missions and pay for 95% of the legacey unlocks and not actually have to earn them. threw grinding and making alts.

 

whats next we can buy our pve marks with in game cash so we really dont even have to raid to have top end gear? im soo sick of mmos dumbing everything down and making everything so easy so bad players can think they have skill.

I think If I have a 50 Mercenary, I should be able to buy a 50 Powertech for 25 million credits, give or take.

Letting players buy there legacey unlocks and not making them unlock them threw the legacey system is a complete joke. and its making me rethink about if i should keep playing. mmos are going down this boring road that just gives you everything with out really having to work 4 it. there is zero grinding in this game besides legacey points and now those points are pointless. as everyone and there lil brother can just do daily missions and pay for 95% of the legacey unlocks and not actually have to earn them. threw grinding and making alts.

 

whats next we can buy our pve marks with in game cash so we really dont even have to raid to have top end gear? im soo sick of mmos dumbing everything down and making everything so easy so bad players can think they have skill.

With as easy as credits are to get in this game, leveling Legacy will be pointless. People will just stick with their slicing, daily, and chest camping activities.

i wont argue with a 25 mill price tag that not something you can earn in 1 days time. but the 200k - 1mill price tag on some of the stuff is a joke. if i put my mind to it i can make 1 mill in 1 day its not hard if you do your missions and sell your crafts. heck on my server 1 mastercraft implant is almost 1 mill for 50 min of crafting time.

but really i feel like this game is trying to drive away players that put in more then 2 hours a day.

You're not likely to have any significant legacy levels if you just play characters in the 20 to 30 range. You only unlock legacy levels once you finish chapter 1 ( ~ level 30) with a character in the first place.

 

And let me make this clear, since there's some confusion about it:

 

The system allows you to unlock things EITHER via achieving the unlock condition (e.g. reaching chapter 2 in a specific class, reaching a specific PvP rank, etc) OR by paying credits. It is not both.

 

The credit option exists so players can enjoy content that they know they would never unlock in regular play (e.g. 'I'd love a pureblood Smuggler, but no way I'll level a Sith Warrior just for that').

 

Some things (like legacy class abilities) cannot be purchased with credits while other things can only be purchased (not unlocked) but are gated by legacy level (e.g. the GTN for your ship requires you to have a high legacy level before you can purchase it).

So, you unlock things by EITHER credits or legacy levels and not both. Except of course for the things that are gated behind legacy levels and also require credits. But, don't you get through gates by unlocking them? There is no functional difference between an ability that is gated behind a legacy requirement and an ability that is unlocked by a legacy requirement. Using two different words to describe the same thing doesn't make the thing any different. So, when you say that nothing is unlocked by both legacy level and credits you're not really being honest with us.

A little piece of my soul died reading that. Seriously one of the worst answers ever. And the first time I've ever seriously considered being done with the game. Just tell the truth man, and I'll make my decision based on the quality of the game, and not whether or not I think the developers are deliberating try to deceive or trick me.

He seems like the kind of guy that has heart attacks over things he can't control.

Nah, I just channel my rage into positive pursuits, such as telling people on the Internet that they're wrong.

So, you unlock things by EITHER credits or legacy levels and not both. Except of course for the things that are gated behind legacy levels and also require credits. But, don't you get through gates by unlocking them? There is no functional difference between an ability that is gated behind a legacy requirement and an ability that is unlocked by a legacy requirement. Using two different words to describe the same thing doesn't make the thing any different. So, when you say that nothing is unlocked by both legacy level and credits you're not really being honest with us.

 

A little piece of soul died reading that. Seriously one of the worst answers ever. And the first time I've ever seriously considered being done with the game. Just tell the truth man, and I'll make my decision based on the quality of the game, and not whether or not I think the developers are deliberating try to deceive or trick me.

They don't teach reading comprehension in schools any more, do they?

By frackin' definition, you need LEGACY levels to unlock LEGACY features. It's like saying, "Why do I need to be a level 50 mercenary to have level 50 mercenary powers? Huh? Why, huh? Tell me that, mister lying gamer designer! Huh? You can't, can you! I win!"

SO:

LEGACY levels are needed for all LEGACY options. This is known as the "Like, duh." requirement.

If your "soul died" because you found out you need to earn LEGACY levels to unlock LEGACY powers in the LEGACY system, I think your soul was probably not long for this world, and it's a mercy that it died quickly and relatively painlessly. (Souls are overrated, anyway. Haven't used mine in decades. Never missed it.)

Here's the rules (as I understand them; I suppose I can admit to the possibility I'm misreading George. If so, well, I'll be suitably embarrassed, and then, I'll be happy, because I will have learned of an error and corrected it, making me better than I was before.):

a)You can unlock them, once you reach the legacy level, by meeting a SECONDARY condition -- 50th level in a class, 50th level with a race, a particular Valor level, etc. In some cases, there is no secondary condition, you get the unlock solely for reaching the legacy level.

b)If you don't wish to meet that secondary condition, you can usually just spend credits.

c)For some abilities (only one has been mentioned so far: Legacy class powers) there is no credit option, you must meet the secondary condition, and the legacy level.

IF(legacylevel>=legacyability.legacylevelrequirement )

{

}

HTH.

(If there's weird spacing in the middle of the words above, I don't know why. BBCode weirdness, I suppose.)

Alright, then I was correct the first time. Yep, don't like that one bit. Oh well.

OK, one of us is crazy.

Or I'm having reading comprehension problems, myself.

Or both.

From what I can tell, you DON'T want to be level 50 with a race to unlock it. Having to be level 50 with a race is what upsets you.

This is precisely what you DON'T HAVE TO DO.

Unless I am utterly and totally misreading what seems to be very, very, straightforward, you need to be legacy level 8 with ANY character of ANY race, and then, you can unlock ANY OTHER RACE YOU WANT by shelling out the appropriate credits.

Please note:LEGACY LEVEL. LEG-UH-SEE LEVEL. Not character level.

If you want to unlock races without reaching a legacy level in the legacy system, sucks to be you, I admit. The whole point of having the system is to reward people who level alts by giving them more options. The whole point of the credits system is to NOT force people to level races/classes they hate to get a legacy option they want.

This strikes me as an eminently sensible design, though of course we'll know for sure only when it's implemented. It might suck giant sweaty donkey balls, but we'll burn that bridge when we're on it.

The sole acknowledge exception, so far, is unlocking legacy class powers, and it seems logical to me that if you want Sith powers, you ought to actually have a Sith somewhere in your family/clan/gang/whatever.

At this point, I'm going to have to put on my best Fry face and start pondering if I'm being trolled. If so.... good on ya, mate. You got me.

With as easy as credits are to get in this game, leveling Legacy will be pointless. People will just stick with their slicing, daily, and chest camping activities.

You still need to gain legacy levels. You just don't need to meet the secondary conditions if you're willing to spend credits.

You MUST have the appropriate legacy level to gain POTENTIAL access to a legacy ability.

Once you have POTENTIAL access, you gain ACTUAL access by ***EITHER***:

a)Meeting a secondary condition (level 50 with a race, valor level 10, whatever)

b)Spending money.

People... this is LESS COMPLICATED THAN FILLING OUT A W2 FORM, which is something I assume 95% of all (American) players of this game have had to do at some point in their lives, and that non-American players have had to do the equivalent.

if(a) then (b or c).

NOT.

VERY.

HARD.

TO.

UNDERSTAND.

Look, people. I was, shall we say, not the best student in the world. I spent my academic career sc****** by doing the minimal work possible. Even so, when I was 16, I was playing games like Star Fleet Battles, Aftermath, and Traveller, whose rules were many times more intricate and complicated than the rules for any modern MMO. This really shouldn't be so hard to figure out. Unless you're all deliberately looking for the worst possible interpretation so as to justify some sort of nerdrage, it's a simple, straightforward, system. One "if" and one "or". NOT. HARD.

Sigh.

"Life is a comedy to those who think, and a tragedy to those who feel."

They don't teach reading comprehension in schools any more, do they?

 

By frackin' definition, you need LEGACY levels to unlock LEGACY features. It's like saying, "Why do I need to be a level 50 mercenary to have level 50 mercenary powers? Huh? Why, huh? Tell me that, mister lying gamer designer! Huh? You can't, can you! I win!"

 

SO:

LEGACY levels are needed for all LEGACY options. This is known as the "Like, duh." requirement.

 

If your "soul died" because you found out you need to earn LEGACY levels to unlock LEGACY powers in the LEGACY system, I think your soul was probably not long for this world, and it's a mercy that it died quickly and relatively painlessly. (Souls are overrated, anyway. Haven't used mine in decades. Never missed it.)

 

Here's the rules (as I understand them; I suppose I can admit to the possibility I'm misreading George. If so, well, I'll be suitably embarrassed, and then, I'll be happy, because I will have learned of an error and corrected it, making me better than I was before.):

 

a)You can unlock them, once you reach the legacy level, by meeting a SECONDARY condition -- 50th level in a class, 50th level with a race, a particular Valor level, etc. In some cases, there is no secondary condition, you get the unlock solely for reaching the legacy level.

 

b)If you don't wish to meet that secondary condition, you can usually just spend credits.

 

c)For some abilities (only one has been mentioned so far: Legacy class powers) there is no credit option, you must meet the secondary condition, and the legacy level.

Dude, nothing you said has anything to do with what I said.

Observe:

“The system allows you to unlock things EITHER via achieving the unlock condition (e.g. reaching chapter 2 in a specific class, reaching a specific PvP rank, etc) OR by paying credits. It is not both.”

AND

“Some things (like legacy class abilities) cannot be purchased with credits while other things can only be purchased (not unlocked) but are gated by legacy level (e.g. the GTN for your ship requires you to have a high legacy level before you can purchase it).”

So, like I said. You unlock things either by achieving the necessary rank or by spending credits, and NOT both. Except of course for the abilities that are gated, thus requiring an unlock by a different name AND credits. And there is no functional difference between achieving a gated condition and achieving an unlocking condition. Remember also Zoeller’s response was to my comment that I was unpleased that legacy unlocks seemed to require a legacy level condition and an amount of credits. His response starts off saying “absolutely not, that’s not true” and ends by basically admitting “yeah, that’s true”

That’s what bothers me, the deliberating misleading double talk.

Dude, nothing you said has anything to do with what I said.

 

Observe:

“The system allows you to unlock things EITHER via achieving the unlock condition (e.g. reaching chapter 2 in a specific class, reaching a specific PvP rank, etc) OR by paying credits. It is not both.”

AND

“Some things (like legacy class abilities) cannot be purchased with credits while other things can only be purchased (not unlocked) but are gated by legacy level (e.g. the GTN for your ship requires you to have a high legacy level before you can purchase it).”

So, like I said. You unlock things either by achieving the necessary rank or by spending credits, and NOT both. Except of course for the abilities that are gated, thus requiring an unlock by a different name AND credits. And there is no functional difference between achieving a gated condition and achieving an unlocking condition. Remember also Zoeller’s response was to my comment that I was unpleased that legacy unlocks seemed to require a legacy level condition and an amount of credits. His response starts off saying “absolutely not, that’s not true” and ends by basically admitting “yeah, that’s true”

That’s what bothers me, the deliberating misleading double talk.

There is no misleading double talk, UNLESS you think that having to reach a given legacy level as a precondition for ALL legacy abilities is somehow wrong.

ALL legacy abilities are, by definition, gated by legacy level.

MOST legacy abilities are unlocked by EITHER meeting a secondary condition, OR spending credits.

Of those abilities (again, only one known so far) that require meeting a secondary condition, there is NO CREDIT COST.

Calling "gated ability" an "unlock by another name" is somewhere beyond disingenuous; it requires willfully ignoring the entire idea that the legacy system is predicated on legacy levels, and you have to earn those to participate in it in any way -- but since you earn them entirely as a side effect of just playing your character, and they're not a sub-game or secondary grind you need to engage in, it's pretty much ridiculous for you to ***** about it, unless you want buy the game off the shelf, log in, and have access to legacy abilities via the ten million credits you bought from Mr. Happy Gold. Requiring legacy levels as a gateway means you have to play the game to get legacy features. Having the option to buy (most of) them INSTEAD OF meeting the SECONDARY conditions is a way to not force players to play classes/races they hate to get something they want.

Yeah, I'm being trolled. I can't think of any other explanation. Damn, I thought I was smarter than that. Live and learn.

So, let's sum up:

All legacy abilities require a minimum legacy level, varying by ability. Duh.

Some abilities automatically unlock when hit the legacy level.

Some abilities unlock if you meet a secondary condition OR if you spend credits.

Some abilities only unlock if you spend credits, but have no secondary condition to meet.

Some abilities only unlock if you meet a secondary condition, but do not cost credits.

NO abilities require you to BOTH spend credits AND meet a secondary condition.

This is what George said. I understood it perfectly. If you're seeing "lying" and "doubletalk", the fault is with you, not him.

Again, you are completely ignoring my point. I don’t know why you think that I’m arguing that legacy rewards shouldn’t be unlocked by legacy levels. I’ve never said anything of the sort. That is a complete straw man.

Zoeller, in response to my post that I wasn’t happy with requiring a legacy level unlock AND credits stated that for all abilities you need to reach either the requirement or pay credits, but not both. In the next paragraph he contradicts this by saying that certain abilities require a certain legacy level AND credits. And that is a contradiction, whether you call it a gated ability or an unlockable ability. They’re the same thing. That’s the point I’m making dude, and it’s right there for anyone to read.

And yes, you’re being trolled, but only by yourself, since you’re making up a straw man argument and then knocking it down.

Apart from the mailbox on your ship, reduced cooldown for instant travel, and the eventual GTN on your ship at 35 legacy the rest appears to be much of a non event for me.

Forget about unlockable races, having leveled a class once I wouldnt do it again so new races will make no difference to me. I cant help but feel that all the hype surrounding legacy is exactly that just hype. However 1.2 looks promising but time will tell

Again, you are completely ignoring my point. I don’t know why you think that I’m arguing that legacy rewards shouldn’t be unlocked by legacy levels. I’ve never said anything of the sort. That is a complete straw man.

 

Zoeller, in response to my post that I wasn’t happy with requiring a legacy level unlock AND credits stated that for all abilities you need to reach either the requirement or pay credits, but not both. In the next paragraph he contradicts this by saying that certain abilities require a certain legacy level AND credits. And that is a contradiction, whether you call it a gated ability or an unlockable ability. They’re the same thing. That’s the point I’m making dude, and it’s right there for anyone to read.

 

And yes, you’re being trolled, but only by yourself, since you’re making up a straw man argument and then knocking it down.

I'm sorry, but if that's your point, I don't get your issue.

You get legacy levels just by playing, as I said in my prior post. There's nothing extra or special you do to earn them. If all legacy abilities were gated only by legacy level, then, pretty much, everyone would have every ability fairly quickly, and one of the main functions of a fluff system like this, which is to serve as a cash sink, would be lost.

I can see people getting upset by having to, say, play a Smuggler to level 50 in order to get an on-ship mailbox, or something. That would be a wretched design. But you seem to be upset that there's a cost other than the legacy levels you earn by doing anything at all in the game and without any special effort or focus, and I do not see how that's a reasonable complaint. Sorry. Nor do I see how George is lying or contradicting himself, as it's axiomatic legacy levels are the primary gate to abilities, and that the issue of concern for most people is the secondary gate -- non-legacy achievements and/or credits.

Dude, nothing you said has anything to do with what I said.

 

Observe:

“The system allows you to unlock things EITHER via achieving the unlock condition (e.g. reaching chapter 2 in a specific class, reaching a specific PvP rank, etc) OR by paying credits. It is not both.”

AND

“Some things (like legacy class abilities) cannot be purchased with credits while other things can only be purchased (not unlocked) but are gated by legacy level (e.g. the GTN for your ship requires you to have a high legacy level before you can purchase it).”

So, like I said. You unlock things either by achieving the necessary rank or by spending credits, and NOT both. Except of course for the abilities that are gated, thus requiring an unlock by a different name AND credits. And there is no functional difference between achieving a gated condition and achieving an unlocking condition. Remember also Zoeller’s response was to my comment that I was unpleased that legacy unlocks seemed to require a legacy level condition and an amount of credits. His response starts off saying “absolutely not, that’s not true” and ends by basically admitting “yeah, that’s true”

That’s what bothers me, the deliberating misleading double talk.

One possible explanation for these seemingly contradictory statements is, indeed, that he knows we know that Bioware is trying to charge us too much for the new legacy features, and he thinks we are so stupid that he can deliberately mislead us by assuaging our concerns in one sentence and then contradicting himself a few sentences later.

Alternatively, I think it might be possible that he really meant to say something like "In most cases, the system allows you to unlock things EITHER via achieving the unlock condition (e.g. reaching chapter two in a specific class, reaching a specific PvP rank, etc.) OR by paying credits. It is not both, except for one of two rare exceptions." Maybe he just assumed that we would be able to reconcile those two ideas without needing him to explicitly qualifying them.

It is also possible that he was simply thinking of legacy gating as a separate mechanic from the unlock conditions (which, in most cases, appear to have nothing to do with legacy level). They are different, after all; unlock conditions are sufficient and possibly, though not always, necessary, while gating conditions are necessary but not sufficient.

Other things being equal, I would probably assume it was an innocent case of miscommunication and not "deliberately misleading double talk." But that's just me.

Yeah, I don’t care if you think it’s a legitimate complaint or not. Since Zoeller answered me I’m feeling pretty comfortable that it is. And if you can’t look at those two sentences and see the contradiction then I’m not wasting any more time with you. However, it is nice to see after your several posts arguing with me that you’ve finally figured out what I was saying. Pretty funny since you started off trash talking about my literacy.

As for the next poster's point about reading his remarks uncharitably. Maybe, but I'm not inclined to think so. The specific point he was responding to was my remark that I wasn't happy with needing legacy levels and credits. So when he responds, nothing requires an unlock and credits I have to assume that's referring to the point he's quoted as being the point he's addressing.

I

It is also possible that he was simply thinking of legacy gating as a separate mechanic from the unlock conditions (which, in most cases, appear to have nothing to do with legacy level). They are different, after all; unlock conditions are sufficient and possibly, though not always, necessary, while gating conditions are necessary but not sufficient.

This strikes me as self-evident; it's what I saw the first time I read it, and I think it takes a willful desire to find malice to read it in any other way.

Look at characters in general.

You have abilities, which you learn from trainers, and which cost money.

You have talents, which cost points, and which don't cost money.

You have a character level, which gates BOTH of them. (Abilities are tied to level, you only get 1 talent point/level.)

It's exactly the same with legacy level. Legacy abilities become available based on legacy level, and, once available, require EITHER a secondary condition OR a payment, but not both. (And some can only be aquired by one or the other, but, again, non require both.)

Legacy level is, as you note, a separate mechanic. It's the "outer shell", if you will, the enclosing system within which the specific abilities -- with their varied unlock conditions -- live. And, for the fourth time, since gaining legacy level is de facto automatic with normal play, it's not something anyone can whine about needing to "grind up" or "work on". BioWare said, "Hey, people are probably going to level a zillion alts anyway, why not track all of their accumulated work and give them cool ****? I mean, it's not like even the pathetic whiny ingrates we've somehow acquired as a player base can get mad when we give them a reward for doing what they would be doing even without getting a reward, right? No one could be that stupid, spiteful, and immature. It's just not possible."

Yeah, I don’t care if you think it’s a legitimate complaint or not. Since Zoeller answered me I’m feeling pretty comfortable that it is. And if you can’t look at those two sentences and see the contradiction then I’m not wasting any more time with you. However, it is nice to see after your several posts arguing with me that you’ve finally figured out what I was saying. Pretty funny since you started off trash talking about my literacy.

Yeah, I was assuming you had a semi-reasonable complaint (having to level grind AND pay money to unlock a singly ability) and were just having trouble understanding why your issue wasn't, in fact, the case. It didn't occur to me that anyone could be upset about what it turned out your real issue was. So, I do apologize. You clearly understand how the system works. You just want the system to be more poorly designed than it actually is, and you're upset the designers did a halfway decent job on the initial framework for the system. (I reserve judgment on the implementation until I see it.)

FWIW, assuming SWTOR follows the same pattern as most other MMORPGs, a year from now, you will be able to log in with a brand new account and get 50 legacy levels and a pony. I mean, a space pony. With photon hooves, or something.

fwiw, assuming swtor follows the same pattern as most other mmorpgs, a year from now, you will be able to log in with a brand new account and get 50 legacy levels and a pony. I mean, a space pony. With photon hooves, or something.

o m g ! ! !

I wannna spacepony!!!!

• Mailbox – Unlockable for 250,000 credits, legacy level 10
  
  
• Repair Droid – Unlockable for 1 million credits, legacy level 8
  
  
• Operation Training Dummy – Unlockable for 250,000 credits, legacy level 10
  
  
• Warzone Training Dummy – Unlockable for 250,000 credits, legacy level 10, valor rank required
  
  
• Black Market Trade Terminal – Unlockable for 5 million credits, legacy level 35
  
  

NPC Vendor for in a ship is just a repair droid???

Yeah, I was assuming you had a semi-reasonable complaint (having to level grind AND pay money to unlock a singly ability) and were just having trouble understanding why your issue wasn't, in fact, the case. It didn't occur to me that anyone could be upset about what it turned out your real issue was. So, I do apologize. You clearly understand how the system works. You just want the system to be more poorly designed than it actually is, and you're upset the designers did a halfway decent job on the initial framework for the system. (I reserve judgment on the implementation until I see it.)

 

FWIW, assuming SWTOR follows the same pattern as most other MMORPGs, a year from now, you will be able to log in with a brand new account and get 50 legacy levels and a pony. I mean, a space pony. With photon hooves, or something.

Proton hooves, you illiterate noob! Photons are with that other space game. Good lord, what is wrong with nerds and geeks these days?