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UI Feedback: Amplifier and Amp Rerolls


EricMusco

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Hey folks,

 

One of the things you may have noticed is that with the Onslaught expansion we are making a number of UI improvements. Some of these are improvements on existing systems, others are completely new interfaces for new systems. Reminder that all of this is still a work in progress so don't focus your feedback too much on visual fidelity and focus on functionality. Also, please avoid gameplay feedback as we are really seeking thoughts about the interface only in this thread.

 

Please share your feedback on Amplifier display and the Amplifier reroll window. The types of feedback we are looking for:

  • Do you understand how amplifiers are displayed on gear? On mods?
  • Do you know how to access the amplifier reroll window?
  • Do you understand how to reroll amplifiers?
  • When rerolling amplifiers, is it clear what choice you are making and how much it costs?

Those are just some examples, share any thoughts you have!

 

Thanks.

 

-eric

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  • Do you understand how amplifiers are displayed on gear? On mods?
  • Do you know how to access the amplifier reroll window?
  • Do you understand how to reroll amplifiers?
  • When rerolling amplifiers, is it clear what choice you are making and how much it costs?

 

Yes to all the above.

 

My biggest issue with Amplifiers right now is the tool tip and Gear Amplifier Window.

The tool tip in the Recalibrate window doesn't always like to show the correct tool tip. The top part shows right, but the bottom part with the description doesn't match.

The Gear Amplifier window doesn't automatically update when an amplifier is updated. You need to close the window and reopen it to see that the amplifier has been updated.

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After testing this on the PTS I have come to the realization that I will NEVER reroll any amplifiers on anything other then my end game modifiable 306 gear.

 

I have found the whole thing to be a waste of money when it comes to unmodifiable Green, Blue, and Purple gear. All that will be replaced sooner or not much later with the modifiable 306 gear which is what you will be wearing till the next expansion. Why waste your money on rerolling something that is gonna be upgraded 19 times? I'm just glad I got to figure this out on the PTS rather than figuring it out on LIVE later and losing a ton of money.

 

I do like them though. And can't wait to use them (with my end game gear). I think their descriptions can be a bit more specific. Some are very vague.

 

I do hope you come out with an official list of all amplifiers and their percentages so we know if we have the highest version or not. If I got Weapon Expertise +1.40%. How would I know if there is a +1.50% or higher?

 

I'm sure this was brought up a while ago but when rerolling, you shouldn't get a lower percentage for the same thing you already have. I should not get Weapon Expertise +0.75% if I already have +1.40%.

 

Also, I reported this a while ago but when you click on the Amplifiers Button on the Character window, it shows all amplifiers for everything on your character AND in your inventory. It really should only show what you have on your current character. I had a ton of gear in my inventory and it was impossible to know which piece was currently equipped with what amplifier and which piece was in my inventory. Just make so it only shows what your currently wearing.

 

Cheers

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I do hope you come out with an official list of all amplifiers and their percentages so we know if we have the highest version or not. If I got Weapon Expertise +1.40%. How would I know if there is a +1.50% or higher?

 

I'm sure this was brought up a while ago but when rerolling, you shouldn't get a lower percentage for the same thing you already have. I should not get Weapon Expertise +0.75% if I already have +1.40%.

 

Yes, a full list of the levels and types available needs to be added or posted somewhere so players know and don’t have to guess.

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Yes to all the above.

 

My biggest issue with Amplifiers right now is the tool tip and Gear Amplifier Window.

The tool tip in the Recalibrate window doesn't always like to show the correct tool tip. The top part shows right, but the bottom part with the description doesn't match.

The Gear Amplifier window doesn't automatically update when an amplifier is updated. You need to close the window and reopen it to see that the amplifier has been updated.

 

This, that issue is going to make it a real pain to understand the mechanics behind each amplifier.

 

I do hope you come out with an official list of all amplifiers and their percentages so we know if we have the highest version or not. If I got Weapon Expertise +1.40%. How would I know if there is a +1.50% or higher?

 

This as well, they should release a list somewhere so we have an idea. Either that or have the amplifier have something like "*Insert name Rank 1 out of 3".

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Off the requested topic and pointless question I realize, but did they ever announce whether these things were;

 

A. So useless that theres no point in rerolling them because they make so minor an impact that they shouldn't be included in stat balance.

 

Or

 

B. Do make an impact and should be included in stat balance, but won't be.

 

They either matter or they don't Musco. If they make a statistically significant impact they should be part of the stat balancing; otherwise they're a stupid waste of your efforts and a dumb excuse for a credit dump and more RNG "excitment."

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Dear Eric and devs,

 

please have a look at my replies below. I think I might have some important points for you to consider.

 

  • Do you understand how amplifiers are displayed on gear? On mods?

 

I guess. When I mouse over a piece of armor, it tells what kind of amplifier (if any) is included in the piece. It states the name and a percentage. So far I saw green and blue amplifiers. I assume there will also be purple. Or golden?

 

But, WHAT EXACTLY DO THESE AMPLIFIERS DO?????

 

I know you wrote some information about it some months ago on the forum. I didn't read it (on purpose). I expect explanation INGAME. My questions are thus:

 

1. Where can I find information about amplifiers in the game? Is there a tutorial?

2. What do these amplifiers do? Does it explain somewhere what which amplifier means? If so, where do I find this information?

3. Have you considered how NEW players will be able to find - and understand - this information? I am completely puzzled by this amplifier system. And I play since beta. I can't imagine how a new player understands this.

 

  • Do you know how to access the amplifier reroll window?

 

NO!

 

I haven't been able to find that out so far on the PTS. Where does it explain INGAME how to do that?

 

  • Do you understand how to reroll amplifiers?

 

NO!

 

See above. Couldn't find that option yet.

 

  • When rerolling amplifiers, is it clear what choice you are making and how much it costs?

 

I wished I could tell you.

 

Seriously, if you add something new to the game like amplifiers, it needs to be properly - and easily - explained.

 

I have absolutely no clue about amplifiers. I didn't read your amplifier information in this forum on purpose. Because I wanted to test by myself how it works within the game.

 

Right now, I haven't found one single bit of information about amplifiers INGAME. If there is info, please make sure that players get shown / can find this info. If there is no info, then please immediately add it. And please, explain what those amplifiers do. INGAME!

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  • 1.Do you understand how amplifiers are displayed on gear? On mods?/

  •  
  • 2. Do you know how to access the amplifier reroll window?/

  •  
  • 3. Do you understand how to reroll amplifiers?/

  •  
  • 4. When rerolling amplifiers, is it clear what choice you are making and how much it costs?
     

 

 

1. I see something written in very tiny letters, barely readable. Was not aware it concerns gear shells AND mods!

 

 

2. By curiosity I clicked on some button, only to be greeted by big gray pop-up with some mumbling. Honestly did not understand much what is it for and what is the outcome

 

 

3. eee.. no, not at all. First i would like to understand WHY do I need to re-roll them?

 

 

4. NO, NO and NO. The cost is the least important, the MOST important is information what are they for, what impact they may have and what will happen if I reroll.

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Some feedback on the Amplifier UI after the latest PTS patch:

 

The tooltips in the calibrate window still do not work properly.

 

When I click on Update there is still no indication that anything has happened - the type/value showing in the Amplifier window will not change until said window is closed out and re-opened. There is no indication/message in the Recalibrate window that the update has occurred - i.e. if I change a 3.5% Life Steal to 4% the header will still read "3.5% Life Steal" even if the recalibrate window is closed out and re-opened. The header in the Recalibrate window will not change until the Amplifier window is closed out and re-opened.

 

There is still no real way to tell what you can possibly get - please put a min and max value in the recalibrate

window. For example, if I click on a 4% life steal amp, when the recalibrate pops up under the "4% Life Steal" header put Min: 1% Max: 6% (or whatever the values are).

 

Still no way to sort Amplifiers on the Amp window.

 

Still no way to see Amp totals anywhere that I can find.

 

Still no Codex for Amplifiers.

 

Thanks for listening!

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just for the record…

I have absolutely no clue about amplifiers. I didn't read your amplifier information in this forum on purpose. Because I wanted to test by myself how it works within the game.

 

Then, why are you here in the first place ? :confused:

 

Right now, I haven't found one single bit of information about amplifiers INGAME.

And you wouldn't !

Don't you understand what the PTS server is ?

The game is in early alpha-preview-test-something state ! The help would be written and put in game sometime around October 20, 2 days before the launch. Nobody would create an in-game help during the testing stage we are on now ! That's why you have rely on forum posts.

So, please, stop going into each and every one thread with your "no in-game help" spam, thank you very much.

 

 

And, to answer the topic's question, no, I don't know anything about the amplifiers. And… I DON'T CARE !

Amplifiers are one of the worst ideas of the 6.0. If you won't get rid of them before launch… well, I just won't going to pay attention to their existence.

Edited by Solarmind
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Hey folks,

 

One of the things you may have noticed is that with the Onslaught expansion we are making a number of UI improvements. Some of these are improvements on existing systems, others are completely new interfaces for new systems. Reminder that all of this is still a work in progress so don't focus your feedback too much on visual fidelity and focus on functionality. Also, please avoid gameplay feedback as we are really seeking thoughts about the interface only in this thread.

 

Please share your feedback on Amplifier display and the Amplifier reroll window. The types of feedback we are looking for:

  • Do you understand how amplifiers are displayed on gear? On mods?
  • Do you know how to access the amplifier reroll window?
  • Do you understand how to reroll amplifiers?
  • When rerolling amplifiers, is it clear what choice you are making and how much it costs?

Those are just some examples, share any thoughts you have!

 

Thanks.

 

-eric

 

1. I under stand how the amps are displayed

 

2. How do you re-roll the amplifiers without googling it on YouTube first? Is it meant to be intuitive because I can’t see how it is. Neither my wife or I could work it out. I’m still trying to work out how to access this “screen”. ( I don’t want to google it because that’s defeating the purpose of your question).

 

3. Refer to point 2. Can’t find the screen, so can’t work out how to re-roll.

 

4. What does each amplifier do. There is no description of what each thing means, so we have to guess again because the naming policy and lack of description aren’t intuitive enough.

 

Edit: found the screen by accident. Will evaluate how it works tomorrow,

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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UI design (look) feed back :

 

Please make all the UI match the old style of windows or make the old style match the new UI windows.

 

At the moment they are so different, it feels extremely unprofessional and amateurish like I’m running multiple third party addons, like you would in games like World or Warcraft.

 

I know you guys are better than this. Please don’t release it live or you will get bad feed back from players and I dare say from industry reviewers in the gaming media. You don’t want it to be come a meme like Anthem’s disjointed systems.

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Then, why are you here in the first place ? :confused:

 

I stated this in my post: to test for myself.

 

And you wouldn't !

Don't you understand what the PTS server is ?

 

I was under the impression that it is for testing new functions and contents which are about to go live soon. And then provide feedback about my experience while testing.

 

And my feedback is: I didn't find out what amplifiers do, what they are good for, how to re-roll them, why I should re-roll them.

 

I think this is valid - and important - feedback. What do you think happens on live? I care enough to test, be active on the forums. Most players don't. They will log in 6.0 and might be highly confused. My feedback might help the devs understand that the system as it is now is not explained enough. Every player has to be able to easily get what this is about. If they don't, the system is not well made.

 

How do you know if the devs thought about adding a new ingame-help? After all, when did they add the last ingame-help to the game? I don't know if they have thought about that. So I give them my feedback.

 

The game is in early alpha-preview-test-something state !

 

Less than 4 weeks before going live? :eek:

 

The help would be written and put in game sometime around October 20, 2 days before the launch. Nobody would create an in-game help during the testing stage we are on now !

 

Yeah right. Oh wait, you're serious. :rolleyes:

 

My feedback is valid (and you can see in this thread that I am not the only one stating this): It's unclear how the system works. It has to be understood even without in-game help. How do I find out how to re-roll an amp? This is a simple question that should be on the dev's list: check if this function is easy enough to find out. If not, make it different. Now, if they say that it's just my stupidity, then so be it. But at least I voiced my feedback. Contrary to you, who is just being unnecessarily rude to me.

 

So, please, stop going into each and every one thread with your "no in-game help" spam, thank you very much.

 

I provide feedback after testing their new systems for this game. It's feedback that is important to me, because it reflects my experience on the PTS. What do you have to offer? Isn't your post the spam here? Because you contribute nothing to the topic. Proof:

 

And, to answer the topic's question, no, I don't know anything about the amplifiers. And… I DON'T CARE !

Amplifiers are one of the worst ideas of the 6.0. If you won't get rid of them before launch… well, I just won't going to pay attention to their existence.

 

Then, why are YOU here? :confused:

 

Just to muzzle me? To what purpose?

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  • Do you understand how amplifiers are displayed on gear? On mods?

 

On gear sure. On mods, no idea. Could be because I don't have any gear with the new mods? I only have gear with older mods, and on those I didn't find any obvious thing about amplifiers. I mentioned in another feedback thread that the main and off hand I got when I boosted are just empty shells. I suspect they were supposed to contain mods (and enhances and hilts/armoring), but they didn't.

 

  • Do you know how to access the amplifier reroll window?

 

Found that easy enough.

 

  • Do you understand how to reroll amplifiers?

 

Sure, just click the small icon in the amp window and then the recalibrate button on the screen that I *REALLY* hope is just a place holder GUI at the moment. Because as others have pointed out, it's really ugly right now.

 

  • When rerolling amplifiers, is it clear what choice you are making and how much it costs?

 

Yes, it's clear. I'm seeing the same bugs as others. Where the two choices for the new amps are listed, the pictures appear correct, but the text is often wrong. It looks to me like bottom the text sticks at whatever it is when that particular slot is first hovered-over.

 

Say for example, I have a "+40 Presense" amp, and I click to recalibrate it. The first time I click recalibrate I get the two choices of "Tech Wizardy" and"Residual Recovery". I hover-over "Tech Wizardy" to view its popup. From that point on (until I close and re-open the "Recalibrate" window) the bottom part of the popup hover-over for the first slot will always have the text giving a description of "Tech Wizardy".

 

Next I click "Recalibrate" a few times, and get "En Garde" and "Force Harmonization". Now if I hover-over "En Garde", as stated above, it will have the icon and name for "En Garde", but the text at the bottom will be for "Tech Wizardy". I hover over "Force Hamonization" (note is the first time I looked at a hover over from the 2nd slot) and it will be correct - all 3 things will be for "Force Harmonization".

 

But now from this point on, I can click to recalibrate, and both slots are stuck with the text as above. Slot 1 will always have the long description for "Tech Wizardy" and slot 2 will always have the long description for "Force Harmonization".

 

And I have the same complaint/request as I've seen here already. I don't know whether to bother re-calibrating anything because I don't know what's available.

 

Also I'm not clear on if recalibrating has the possibility to change the type of amplifier. That is, I have an amplifier that boosts say "treasure hunting". I *THINK*, it looks like, when I recalibrate that, I can only ever get amplifiers that boost some non-combat thing - either a different crew skill in some way, or quest XP in some way. Similarly, I guess I can't re-calibrate an amp that is giving me some combat boost and make it into something that gives me a crew skill boost. If that's true, I would also want to know which amplifiers fit into which categories, so that I'm not wasting credits (that I hardly ever have anyway) trying to get something that it turns out I can't actually get in that piece of gear.

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Now I’ve been able to work out what and how it works, I have some feed back. I know the UI is in flux and the white window is a place holder, but I hope a better description of each amp will be added.

 

1. We need a list of what each amplifier does and what types of pieces accomodate certain types of amps,

Ie, I noticed that some will only re-roll crafting or gathering amps (which is bad if you don’t craft), while others will only roll useful combat amps or QOL amps,

 

2. A list of what are the highest and lowest types of the same amps would also be useful to know.

Ie, if I see a +4 potent artifice amp on a roll, how do I know if that’s the highest of that type I can get?

Maybe they need to be colour coded on the recollections screen as well as the item once you’ve updated it,

 

3. The prices also need a cap of say 50,000 and you can keep rerolling even if you hit it, I easily spent millions of credits over a few Alts to look and explore the amps. When it got to 200,000? It locked the window and I couldn’t go no further or recoll anymore. The lock was good, but I think it was more a bug than by design. I also think if it was by design, that 200,000 is way too high and you should still be able to keep rolling because I was stuck with a useless amp on that item,

 

4. I would like to see the quality of the amp on a reroll go up the more you roll and spend the credits. When you are upwards of 50,000 and you start getting 0.10 gathering potency, there is something very wrong and annoying about that.

 

5. I have some questions regarding the same amps being on multiple items. Do they stack to increase as a total percentage? What happens if I’ve 4 x “feeling lucky” Amos. Does that equal x4 or is each still counted as one.

 

6. Can we possibly have a summary screen that shows all the same grouped amps we have equiped so we aren’t going up and down trying to read each one. And if we have multiple of the same amps, can you show them stacked.

Ie if you have 4 potent artifice Amps, but each is a different number, can you just add those together and show them as a total? That’s assuming they work that way?

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Played around with the Amps again tonight and spent around 2 billion credits.

 

There needs to be a cap on how much a reroll costs, even if you keep rolling to find the one you want. I would suggest 30,000 credits considering how some have little or no affect on much.

 

I can not emphasis this enough, you need to make sure the rolls don’t start going backwards in quality. If I roll a +1 potent alacrity and then a +4 potent alacrity and I’m trying for a +6, the last thing I want to see is another +1 potent alacrity. Especially when I’m up to 100,000 credits,

 

I would also suggest that the costs be refunded if you choose not to upgrade, If you are looking for a specific amp and it’s just not rolling, you shouldn’t have to pay for each roll if you end up keeping the one you’ve got.

It’s too much like gambling on a slot machine and I found myself mesmerised while I was rerolling. Next thing I’d spent half a billion credits because I wasn’t too focused on getting the “spin” I wanted,

 

That’s definitely not a good feeling and I think it really is borderline gambling more than RNG. “Which will get you into trouble” with certain countries definitions of what gambling is vs RNG loot boxes. I know Australia is currently investigating the whole RNG loot box gambling influence on people, especially children (even free Loot boxes and RNG systems). I would hate to see them restrict swtor in our region because of it,

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Played around with the Amps again tonight and spent around 2 billion credits.

 

There needs to be a cap on how much a reroll costs, even if you keep rolling to find the one you want. I would suggest 30,000 credits considering how some have little or no affect on much.

 

I can not emphasis this enough, you need to make sure the rolls don’t start going backwards in quality. If I roll a +1 potent alacrity and then a +4 potent alacrity and I’m trying for a +6, the last thing I want to see is another +1 potent alacrity. Especially when I’m up to 100,000 credits,

 

I would also suggest that the costs be refunded if you choose not to upgrade, If you are looking for a specific amp and it’s just not rolling, you shouldn’t have to pay for each roll if you end up keeping the one you’ve got.

It’s too much like gambling on a slot machine and I found myself mesmerised while I was rerolling. Next thing I’d spent half a billion credits because I wasn’t too focused on getting the “spin” I wanted,

 

That’s definitely not a good feeling and I think it really is borderline gambling more than RNG. “Which will get you into trouble” with certain countries definitions of what gambling is vs RNG loot boxes. I know Australia is currently investigating the whole RNG loot box gambling influence on people, especially children (even free Loot boxes and RNG systems). I would hate to see them restrict swtor in our region because of it,

 

I swore that with the reactions to all of the "input" we've been offering that I was done even talking (like it really matters one way or the other !! )

 

1. Trixx … you're right. And I would like to add:

2. Here's my assessment thus far:

Between the RNG stuff ... and not knowing what you're going to get with a "re-roll" …(not to mention the expense of the re-roll) … makes working toward specific stats just about as big of a guess as it gets.

 

So what is the point of doing re-rolls. For the record I know what the point SHOULD be. But from what I can see there is no way to tell what to re-roll OR what to expect from doing the re-roll.

 

Does re-rolling improve stats? It should BUT IMO the simple fact is that unless you get a group of either 3 or 4 players on each team with specific stats... have them re-roll to "adjust" those stats … then see what happens the end results are open ended and ambiguous at best. In other words only an experiment under a wider range of controlled specific conditions would reveal specific results.

 

Frankly as it is … re-rolling is simply a waste of resources (namely credits) unless you have several hundred million to throw at the chance of getting it right.... maybe !

 

This is not a rant. I'm simply trying to express the difficulties of stating specific results without having specific controlled testing.

 

3. Also: What happens if we re-roll and wish we had the original back ? Then what ? IMO... Something tells me that once you hit that "magic button to re-roll" there's no turning back. At least that seems to be what I've found thus far.

 

Edited … again ! (note: I'm still rethinking a better way to be more precise in what I'm driving at.)

Edited by OlBuzzard
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Between the RNG stuff ... and not knowing what you're going to get with a "re-roll" …

 

I was thinking about this, and realized... it's like going to Vegas and playing a "blackjack" type game, except they don't tell you what the target score is. "You are sitting at 33 sir. Do you want another card?"

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  • Do you understand how amplifiers are displayed on gear? On mods?
  • Do you know how to access the amplifier reroll window?
  • Do you understand how to reroll amplifiers?
  • When rerolling amplifiers, is it clear what choice you are making and how much it costs?

1. Yes, at least for the gear part, haven't had mods with amplifiers yet. But without equipping the item I don't have any idea what the amplifier actually does, some are self explanatory while others could be anything from their name. I'd prefer to know at first glance what a new item/amplifier might get me without doing various steps first or look up in a list what this or that does now.

2. No, I wouldn't have found the whole gear amplifier window on my own, I asked someone being longer on the PTS for where I could find out what the different amplifiers do with the intention to get some general information about them, he told me then how to find the window of what my toon has equipped. From there I simply tried out what the button at the end of the line in the gear amplifiers window does, from its look though it wasn't that clear that it's the reroll or even that it was actually a button to click, since hovering the mouse over there only shows the tooltip of the amplifier.

3. Yes, or at least I think so, having to close both the reroll and the gear amplifier windows to get the new type/value was quite confusing.

4. Yes, for the cost, as it is though a definite No for what I get, the tooltip does not change from the first offered recalibrate option, the icon and name/value changes, the descriptive text though stays the same as the first displayed options, without knowing by heart each and every amplifiers name together with what they do, I simply can't know what I get.

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Kinda digging the amplifiers, but... I want even say how much creds it took me to get mostly golds and purples.. being a non gtn guru, play the market type, my players are always low on creds.. not one of the 1% that have millions and millions of creds to blow on a chance for an upgrade. So not sure if amplifiers are even going to be an option for me. sad squirrel....
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Kinda digging the amplifiers, but... I want even say how much creds it took me to get mostly golds and purples.. being a non gtn guru, play the market type, my players are always low on creds.. not one of the 1% that have millions and millions of creds to blow on a chance for an upgrade. So not sure if amplifiers are even going to be an option for me. sad squirrel....

 

That's all this could possibly be, a giant credit sink. I'm still waiting on simple clarification of concept. Either these things make a significant impact or they do not. If they do, why are they not being included in balance totals. If they do not, scrap the concept and find some other giant waste of time and credits, preferably one that only affects their targetted credit spammers.

 

As a basic principle, a min maxing problem relies on independent variables (i.e. crit, alacrity, etc) affecting some dependent variable (i.e. dps). Ergo, using this amplifiers as a min maxing tool is a stupid argument if they do not provide enough crit/alacrity/whatever to impact dps. Thus, I conclude that their stated intent is inaccurate or worse, that they simply cannot be bothered to incorporate yet another variable into the already growing list of things they must now consider.

 

Thus my overarching conclusion, solidified by reading this thread, is that these amplifiers are a simple credit dump (that, I might add Musco, does not hurt your intended target).

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Kinda digging the amplifiers, but... I want even say how much creds it took me to get mostly golds and purples.. being a non gtn guru, play the market type, my players are always low on creds.. not one of the 1% that have millions and millions of creds to blow on a chance for an upgrade. So not sure if amplifiers are even going to be an option for me. sad squirrel....

 

LOL, Ive spent 5 billion credits across 4 characters and I still couldn’t get all the amps I was rolling for, if it goes live as it is, people won’t bother and others will end up being gambling addicts.

 

If they cap the cost at 30,000 and make it so rolls get better and not worse, then I agree, the amps are fun.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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