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My problems with the Jedi Consular (extensive spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
My problems with the Jedi Consular (extensive spoilers)

Noctinyx's Avatar


Noctinyx
02.24.2012 , 10:01 PM | #31
First of all, thank you very much everybody for your replies so far. As far as agreements, thanks for the support. As far as the disagreements, thanks for explaining them along the way and being civil about the whole thing.


Since my original post, I decided to pick up the consular story again. I figure if Iím going to criticize the entire story, I should at least play through the entire story. I also managed to maximize affection with all of my companions so I could see their individual story arcs through to the end.

So now Iíll be posting what I think of the rest of the stories for the consular. Again, there will be no shortage of spoilers. You have been warned.

Noctinyx's Avatar


Noctinyx
02.24.2012 , 10:02 PM | #32
Chapter 3, the rest of it. (with lots of spoilers)


This chapter was probably the best overall, for me at least. Of course, compared to chapters 1 and 2 that is a pretty low standard to beat. Once again, the Belsavis arc was interesting except for the emperorís child being annoying throughout. The Voss arc was better because the emperorís child doesnít come out in the open until she ambushes you on the way back to your ship. Sure, I had already figured out who she was pretty much on first sight, based on how the story had gone so far.

The things that I liked about the Belsavis and Voss stories for the consular were the Esh-kha and the Voss. Both species were very interesting to me. Indeed, I would like to see a companion of either or both of those species available for the consular someday. I find it a pity that they were not among the companions gained so far, to be honest.

Anyways, youíve got your army of Esh-kha and your elite Voss strike force led by a new mystic that you helped through the trials. Youíve also got the Balmorra supply of war droids at your disposal. So, naturally, thereís some big threat that you need to go deal with.

Itís a dreadnaught. At first itís actually kind of cool going from point to point inside, calling members of your crew up on holo as they take down key systems elsewhere on the giant ship. But, remember, this is the consularís story. Which means youíve been outwitted. Again.

You run across a droid that seems very proud of the task he just recently completed. Setting explosives all over the dreadnaught. Itís a trap, and there isnít even a Mon Calamari there to tell you so. So you run around trying desperately to shut down at least some of the explosives so your own ship doesnít get obliterated.

As the dreadnaught starts to blow up, itís time to leave. So you tell your people to get out, but (in my case at least) Iresso is staying around just a bit longer. Seems heís got some sensitive computer files to download before the place turns to space dust. Your next mission then is to track down the escape pod he left in and rescue him where he crash-landed on Corellia.

It was made to seem all dramatic, but I really didnít feel much drama. I was tempted to look for a ďright, and who are you again?Ē option when Iresso was saying he had to stay behind for the data files.

Well itís a good thing that he did, apparently. Thanks to a bit of computer decryption by Holiday (and she was actually pretty competent in that cutscene), you finally find out the identity of the First Son. Master Syo, of all people. Sure itís supposed to be all dramatic again, but I just found it aggravating. Mostly because there are apparently a series of hidden fortresses on Corellia that he had been left in charge of. So guess what. The emperorís children have them now, and your entire mission on Corellia is taking them back.

So once more, you have arrived too late. Things are completely screwed up and itís up to you and you alone to fix them. And, as with the other emperorís children, even the wisest consular canít even figure out who they are ahead of time. Sure theyíre supposed to be the completely undetectable sleeper agents, but come on. After running into them how many times, you might at least be able to notice a pattern after a while. Never mind the force, why donít we just go with common sense even. But no, youíve been fooled yet again.

On the positive side, by about halfway through the story things do seem to be looking up a bit. Youíve got an army with you, after all, and although itís mostly indirectly implied, you do work with them and deploy them to aid your retaking of the various fortresses.

Of course thereís the end. Now I was seriously laughing out loud for this part. You have just retaken the final fortress and Syo is downstairs in a cave. Your army is depleted and otherwise tied up with holding objectives, so they canít help you anymore. You and ALL of your companions are standing around near the hatch to the cave below.

So your band of rejects has a sort of warm touchy-feely moment where they wish you good luck, BEFORE LEAVING. ďWeíll be on the ship. If we donít see you again, itís been an honor.Ē

It was meant to be one of those epic story moments, with the inspiring music swelling in the background and that last moment with good friends (most of whom I have grown to loathe and despise) before they send you off to your likely demise. I should have been annoyed, but at this point I had started to get used to these losers, so in the end it was just me and Nadia going down into the cave to confront our final fate. As an aside, in case anybody is wondering, I play as a healing sage, so Iíve found Nadiaís DPS to work well with that play style.

Well, being light side, I spared Syo in the end and got him to unmask all those hidden emperorís children. Of course he tells me to leave him alone to think about things in the cave for a while. The First Son who has caused all of this horror and misery, still conscious in his head, and probably quite thoroughly angry, and he wants to be left alone for a while. No option to do otherwise. Does anybody else think this is a stupid idea?

Anyways, Syo gets taken away eventually by the Jedi council. The Esh-kha go to start a colony somewhere and probably worry their neighbors just a bit in the process. The group of Voss goes to train the Jedi and exchange their understanding of the force, making the Jedi council distinctly nervous in the process. My consular gets put on the council, as the only Jedi that has shown the least bit of real competence throughout the entire story arc. So itís just me and my companions again, ready to go off and look into whatever seems to be wrong on Ilum.

Noctinyx's Avatar


Noctinyx
02.24.2012 , 10:02 PM | #33
Companion stories and how they end. (obviously lots of spoilers here)


Qyzen

While heís dealing with middle age, you uncover a plot where a wookiee is killing off middle-aged trandoshans. Turns out heís working with a trandoshan who wants to eliminate his rivals. So you kill this dishonorable lizard and then his ex-followers want Qyzen to lead them. I really didnít care about any of this. I was tempted to side with the wookiee, to be honest. One fun aspect of this story though, Qyzen used to hunt with Braden for a little bit. If you donít know who Braden is, run a bounty hunter through the first bit of Hutta. At one point we had a conversation with Mako via holo, as she apparently owed Qyzen a favor and so helped us track down this shady trandoshan. It was fun to see Mako from another class, but it kind of left me wishing the consular could have her as a companion rather than Qyzen or Tharan.


Tharan

He tries to make a super duper tech device of some kind to win at a symposium for elitist smart people. What does it do? Not sure and donít care. Most of his story has to do with his working on the device but, at the end, he realizes that he can use it to improve Holidayís mental capacity and overall sentience. But it has such a limited run time that he wonít be able to use it at the symposium if he does so. So he has to choose between his own ego and his electric girlfriend. In the end he chooses Holiday, and is laughed off the stage at the symposium when he doesnít fire up the technowhatsit. Touching, right? One problem. Why didnít he use it to improve Holiday while at the symposium? Activate it in front of all of these would-be colleagues as he uses it for Holiday. And here I thought he was supposed to be a genius. Personally Iím starting to think that Holiday actually does all of the thinking and technical work, and he just takes the credit.


Zenith

The further I got in Zenithís story, the more I came to despise him. He has an old journal from his mentor Gray Star, written in code. Apparently he wanted it destroyed after he died, but what does Zenith do? He starts decoding it. At the same time, he is working on getting elected to a position of leadership on Balmorra. The planet that doesnít want him around because heís too Imperial in his attitudes and methods. Probably every other conversation it seemed like my consular had to talk him out of some form of dirty trick to discredit his competitor. But the worst was near the end. In the journal, he finds out about a bunch of people that his old mentor smuggled off of Balmorra during the occupation. He can tell them itís time to come back, and they will vote for him. Later, he finds out why they were smuggled away. They apparently aided the empire in some small way during the occupation. Probably had no other choice, were starving et cetera, so his mentor decided they should be moved off world for their own protection. What does Zenith do? He has them all arrested. So first ďitís safe to come back, the occupation is ended.Ē And when they arrive ďyouíre under arrest.Ē There are words for what Zenith is, and they are all too pungent and foul for me to utter here. He wins the election because of this, and decides to stay on the ship with you and rule from afar. Why do I have to have this creep on my ship still?


Iresso

I didnít take any romance options with this guy, so I canít speak to any romantic aspect of the story. Basically you find out that he was experimented on by the empire while he was their prisoner. He had the contents of a Sith holocron locked away into his brain somehow. He canít access them, but I was more than a little creeped out having that just walking blithely around my ship. No telling what would happen if that information ever crept into his conscious mind, after all. And this is the romance option for female consulars? I guess he is better than the other three guys you have as companions, all things considered.


Nadia

The only companion that felt appropriate for a consular. I didnít take any romance options with her, so I canít speak to any romantic aspect of her story either. Romance aside, her story is a combination of you training her and teaching her Jedi philosophy, her recovering from the grief of her fatherís death, and her acting as a sort of emissary between the republic and her home planet since her father is gone. I got a sense of her growth and progression as a character during all of this. Overall I thought it was a good story, and in the final conversation she talks about experiencing a force bond with you during a recent fight you were in together. She was apparently able to feel your injuries and your use of the force as well as her own. So that was kind of neat, but thatís pretty much where things are left. Not very exciting, but at least appropriate to what should be a fairly mystical and force-heavy class.

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Noctinyx
02.24.2012 , 10:03 PM | #34
To Finally Conclude


I found the consular story and companions to have their good moments and aspects, yes. Throughout the story there are moments where you can think or negotiate your way through obstacles, rather than fighting. Of course sometimes you just have to fight, but that seems reasonable enough to me.

However, the story felt reactive and was often unduly aggravating to me. How many times can you be there too late and be left to clean up a mess? I would think that a ďwiseĒ Jedi should be able to have enough foresight to not end up in this position most of the time.

I can tell that a lot of work was put into the companions and their stories, and I think a lot of them would go well with other classes. However, Nadia is the only companion I can see really fitting with a consular. People may bring up Han Solo working with Luke and Obi Wan back in ďA New Hope.Ē To that I would say that Han was their only alternative at that point. They were in hiding, on the run from the Empire, and they had to take what they could find. The consular is not in hiding here, and they would theoretically have the backing of the entire Jedi order (hidden emperorís children aside I guess).

So why does the consular end up with these rejects? Yes, I said rejects. Qyzen has a fall from grace on Tython, Tharan leaves his ďjobĒ on Nar Shadaa, Zenith is dumped on you because Balmorra doesnít want him, and Iresso joins up with you because other soldiers donít trust him thanks to that Sith library in his head. Even Nadia is feared and shunned by her people because they arenít used to people with force abilities. Thatís largely why she was traveling with her father off world in the first place.

Furthermore, Qyzen and Iresso were boring to me. Tharan was an arrogant idiot pretending to be a genius. Zenith was just vile in the end. Nadia was horribly traumatized, but at least her story had her recovering from that.

So in the end, for me at least, the consular story had more fail than win. But I still love the game, and intend to play SWTOR for a good long time if I can. There are things that I like about the consular, and in spite of all of the nonsense in the story, I do like how my character turned out. I hope that, at some point in the future, we have the chance to choose our companions a bit more. I would probably get rid of most of mine and take on a completely new set if the opportunity were presented, even after getting a full 10,000/10,000 affection for all of them.

It is also my hope that, whenever Bioware implements chapter 4 for their classes, they take the consular in a better direction. I would like the story to be more consistent with a Jedi that is wise in the mysteries of the force, and can foresee and prevent calamities rather than arriving too late and reacting to them all the time. I would also be very glad to see more of the Esh-kha and the Voss, perhaps even as companions. Until then, I guess there are other class stories to play through.

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livewood
02.25.2012 , 02:38 AM | #35
[As this is after page 4 I will probably not get a answer to this but I will try anyway]

Does anything you do ultimately matter to the ending. I went total light side and got the hero of the day blah blah blah speech but after watching some vids on youtube I'm starting to wonder if any of the choices made any difference at all to that ending and would I have got it had I gone completely dark can anyone tell me?

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Invictos
03.16.2012 , 03:44 PM | #36
First, apologies for the necro. After a casual search, this thread seemed like the best place to discuss the Consular's story without touching too much on spoilers for other classes.

Second, thanks to the OP for posting such a thoughtful criticism of the Jedi Consular. I don't agree with the general thrust of your analysis, but I can see where you're coming from. FWIW, I started with the Consular in part because I'd heard it was an underwhelming story; I thought it'd be best to try it without having been spoiled by what are supposedly superior class stories. Long story short on my areas of disagreement: I enjoyed the Consular quest line as I went, and Qyzen was my favorite companion.

The Consular's is not a cohesive story though, and there are several cringe-worthy moments in it. The big plot twists (learning that Parkanas is the big bad guy in Act I, and learning that Syo is the big bad guy in Act III) are very predictable. If I had been in charge of the story, I would have at least added (or possibly replaced Yuon Par with) another prominent male mentor character, because the First Son's identity is blatantly obvious just from process of elimination. It sure ain't Satele Shan or Yuon Par.

(Come to think of it, if a female character turned out to be the "First Son" in disguise, that would be a devilish plot twist!)

What the Consular story did well, IMO, was in the details rather than in the design of the whole. Since the game is played over an extremely long time (relative to most any other story-based RPG), you can more easily put aside your misgivings with the over-arching plot and just enjoy each scene -- scenes like Force Persuading the entire leadership of Alderaan to make peace, or that scene on Belsavis when you have to convince the robot that you are a Jedi Master.

Maybe my standards are just low. Maybe I'm just a sucker, but I managed to have fun from beginning to end. And to the extent that I felt railroaded throughout my (Light Side) Consular playthrough, the following quote is making me wonder whether there were other options:

Quote: Originally Posted by Noctinyx View Post
Well, being light side, I spared Syo in the end and got him to unmask all those hidden emperorís children. Of course he tells me to leave him alone to think about things in the cave for a while. The First Son who has caused all of this horror and misery, still conscious in his head, and probably quite thoroughly angry, and he wants to be left alone for a while. No option to do otherwise. Does anybody else think this is a stupid idea?
I killed Syo. I didn't get Dark Side points for it either. There wasn't an explicit moral choice at all, and in fact until I read your critique I assumed that letting Syo die was the only option. I'm guessing that my dialog choices at the beginning of the scene set the tone for the end?

In any case, I was very happy not to be given the annoying you-must-spare-the-devil-to-keep-your-alignment choice with Syo. Merciful or not, it would have been extremely foolish not to kill or at least condemn him to prison. As far as I'm concerned (and as far as the story would have you believe, prior to Corellia, anyway), being a Child of the Emperor is not a matter of mind control or possession. Or rather, if there is mind control, the mind control is intended to make you believe that you're a good guy, not the other way around.

To me, Jedi Master Syo is the sham. The First Son is the real McCoy. Even if I'm wrong on that point, we're given no evidence that you can excise the First Son from Syo's mind.

By timely contrast, I experienced an annoying alignment-constraining choice at the end of the general Corellia quest line: there's a Corellian Councilman who feeds you crucial information as you try to retake the planet from the Empire. It turns out that the same council member effectively invited the Empire in the first place, and that only after he was bribed did he switch back to the Republic's side.

So when the time comes to decide the traitor's fate, the game gives me two choices - give the power-mad and greedy council member a free pass, or send him to jail with the rest. You can guess which choice gives you LS points and which gives you DS points, but I couldn't help myself; the dude had to be locked away.

It was the first time I chose a DS option in the entire game, and frankly that experience left a bad taste in my mouth as I (immediately thereafter) went on to finish off the Consular story. Too bad you can't accumulate alignment points above 10,000 to give you a little breathing room in situations like that one.

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MadHobbit
03.25.2012 , 09:20 PM | #37
Well I am lvl 20 took Shadow,We all should keep in mind that the game is less than 6 months old. 2-3 years from now the game willhave a all new look and feel. I have been playing City Of Heroes for almost 8 years, I started one month after it opened, That game is almost totally different from when it started.

I rememeber the pains it had and I see the same for This Game, and they both have similar rough edges.I am sure that all the issues or at least most of them will be addressed in upcoming patches, by the time this game gets to version 1.5 a lot of this will have gone away.

I like the storyline, i just wish we could have prechosen our advance class. The crafting of our first light saber is great and awesome. I almost felt like a Jedi with the cutscene. then 10 mins later it is tossed asside and a new one (worn) is given to me . or at least a new quest to get the new double blade lightsaber.

And for the record half way thought the second planet ,I was getting tired of the hunt 40 of X, which lead to now go get 15 of Y. followed by 10 of Z. Looks like a bit of a grind is gong to happen in the future

Freesa's Avatar


Freesa
09.21.2013 , 12:55 AM | #38
I'm a level 16 Jedi shadow, and I don't seem to dishing out a lot of damage. I'm wondering at what level do I start dishing massive amounts of damage?

I love the jedi shadow, but as of late it hasn't performed very well in my opinion

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GrimAce
09.23.2013 , 06:49 AM | #39
I'm actually surprised at the hate for the companions. With a few exceptions, I found them to have quite decent stories within themselves.

Qyzen is, quite frankly, an underappreciated jewel amongst ALL the companions in TOR. However, where he falls down is that you need to understand a lot about Trandoshans - or at the very least how they have been represented in the past - to truly appreciate his character. If, like me, you've played and read a lot of EU content, then Qyzen's code of honor, and even his religious views, give Trandoshans as a whole a really great level of depth that they otherwise don't really have. Especially as his story progresses, exploring the idea that he is going through an identity crisis because he's reached an age that most Trandoshans don't live to see, and going with him to discover his new role in the galaxy and his own culture is actually really fascinating.

Theran is, at least initially, really annoying, and the constant -1s in dialogue can be a bit tedious until you get to know him...but the payoff is awesome down the track. At the very end of his storyline, where he has to decide between his pride and his scientific genius and his affectrion for Holiday, and the repurcussions of those actions is just great writing.

Iresso is another late bloomer, and my initial playthrough left me feeling really dissatisfied with him. However, on my second character - a male sage following a male shadow, where I instead chose for more rogueish quips while still going Light Side, he really came alive, and despite his somewhat lackluster personal arc, he really felt like a bro by the end.

As a Light Sider, my relationship with Zenith was difficult to build up, but as my interactiosn with him increased, I began to understand his perspective and relate to his character. His noo-nonsense, by-any-means-necessary attitude actually rubbed off on my Sage, and I took a few Dark Side options as a result of seeing things through his eyes, which in turn actually seemed to make my own character feel more complex. Though his demeanor and mannerisms will prevent him from ever being considered great or loveable, I found his role in the group to be a vital counterbalance to the bleeding hearts that made up the majority of the group, but not in a way that frustrated me like, for example, Lord Scourge.

Finally, Nadia. I'll be honest, I didn't like her. Not really necessarily through any fault of her character, but as the romance option for my characters as well as my Padawan, it was...actually kind of creepy. Now, I don't know what the canon ages for the characters (including my own) is in terms of the continuity, but I know that info is out there somewhere. That said, to me, my Consulars spoke like someone in their early 30's by the time Nadia was in my party...so the wide-eyed, naive thing was a good dynamic for a Padawan...but as a romance option? I just felt like I was robbing the cradle. On my second playthrough, though, I declined her advances, and she actually seemed to be more appealling as a result...almost like she was written with turning her down as the natural option. With the lack of alternative romance options, however, this probably wasn't intentional.
|-o-| <-o-> |-o-|
I HAVE YOU NOW

| Vrek | Siiras | ElliŲt | Kharoz | Bhalr | BhŠlr |

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Laphoon
06.28.2018 , 04:05 PM | #40
This was great !