By far the vast majority of people here are saying you can't beat them if skill is equal. So which is it?

 

And please tell me, what classes have you beaten Operative's / Scoundrels with? And not the mediocre ones that we have all beaten, I mean the skilled ones. Please, do tell me.

Operative is by far the undisputed king of duels. If anyone tries to tell you otherwise they are wrong and I'd recommend ignoring entirely on the forums because they are so offbase they really have no idea what they are talking about.

With that said skill will always trump class differences. If you are an extremely good player it is possible to beat a good operative. However, it is always difficult and will require the player that is not an operative to always have more skill than the operative. Great mercs can beat good operatives. Both marksman and engi can put up a good fight. In the recent patch lightning sorc has arisen to become a close contender to operatives as well, but it requires an extremely high level of skill. Notably, deception sins have the capability to also beat operatives in 1v1s when executed perfectly and in the correct utilities, but imo all of the assassins that were able to do it consistently have quit the game.

There's been more than a few people here who have made it abundantly clear that Operatives / Scoundrels cannot be beaten if the player knows what to do. One guy said that if you get an Operative within 1DCD of dying then he's really bad. Another said that a rusty player could come back after 6 months off and still win every duel he plays. Another said that they are the Kings of 1v1. Not all on this thread mind, on other threads too. So are these people being stubborn too? You can't have it both ways. Either they are the unbeatable Kings of 1v1 or they are not. By far the vast majority of people here are saying you can't beat them if skill is equal. So which is it?

 

And please tell me, what classes have you beaten Operative's / Scoundrels with? And not the mediocre ones that we have all beaten, I mean the skilled ones. Please, do tell me.

It depends on the op/scoundrel's spec and his skill vs his opponent's skill. In the video someone posted earlier in this thread, the guy was in ruffian/lethaility. So stop trying to muddy the water. You keep saying #nerfoperatives, and that you play them, but you don't ever mention spec and what spec/class your opponent's are which makes me wonder if you're making it all up. And say what exactly you want nerfed and why/how, then maybe you can start an actual discussion.

PS - Don't play DoT spec versus a scoundrel/operative. It's a bad idea.

....

I don't think anyone is disputing scrapper/concealment is the most superior dueling class. The problem with the OP is that he is on a #nerfoperatives rant and he's upset that some operative 1v4'd his crew.

I find it pretty hilarious that someone who mains a skanktank is complaining about the survivability of a DPS spec that is one of the most squishy classes without DCDs up, as well as one of the highest skill requirements to play well out of any class in the game.

Yes, operative can be pretty tanky when played properly and smartly (IE, like 1% of DPS ops), even when exceedingly outnumbered. If you stack up all your DCDs with a warzone adrenal and take the right utilities, you can have around 70% damage reduction (although that's with the adrenal and I'm not entirely positive it stacks with everything else in this case because it doesn't show 70% on the character sheet, like someone else said though, you can definitely get up to at least 56%). Even still, I've been bursted down in a stun through that.

I hate to break it to you man, but I think the DPS you were with on that node were dummies.

You can spam them as much as you want.

But not while in stealth.... so what am I missing? As I said this Operative travelled half the map and back again in stealth with healing probes circulating him. It's something I see a lot. You see them in the waiting area before a PVP match begins, with probes circulating in stealth far longer then mine do.

But not while in stealth.... so what am I missing? As I said this Operative travelled half the map and back again in stealth with healing probes circulating him. It's something I see a lot. You see them in the waiting area before a PVP match begins, with probes circulating in stealth far longer then mine do.

That's just the animation. The duration is exactly the same. 18 seconds. Refreshes back to 18 seconds if you apply another one.

Just to clarify, I am fully over what happened in the original post when that Operative didn't die in a 6v1. Since then I have been playing Scoundrel to learn them, and I understand why they can do things like this. Also that occasion in my original post is far from the first time I have seen such things. So yeah, it's what it is.

You want spec.. ok. I'm playing Scrapper. I spoke to an extremely good Scoundrel on Darth Malgus who destroyed my Skank tank and she told me Scrapper is better for PVP. Although interestingly she plays Ruffian, but admitted that for PVP it requires a higher skill level than Scrapper, hence she advised me to go with Scrapper.

The classes I have already beaten amongst my friends are:

Telekinetic Sage

Guardian Skank

Vigilance Guardian

Plasmatech Vanguard

Gunnery Commando

Concentration Sentinel

All 250+ geared with me being 248 and using bolster in Rishi SH if they are 255+.

In WZ I am going to the opposing team's turret right from the start (unless a another stealthier is already doing it) with mixed results. Sometimes I am getting taking down quite swiftly. Sometimes there's 2/3 there and I last a good long while before they get me.

In WZ at turrets I've lost 1v1 to 2 Assassins (interesting what was said above about sins being able to take down Scoundrels) I usually beat sins on my Skank but I guess I need to find the right way with them on this Scoundrel.

By no means am I "skilled" with this class yet. And I make no claims about my friends being in the top 1% PVPers on the server or anything like that. But they are solid long time PVPers who taught me everything I know about PVP when I joined the game 1.5 years ago.

The point I am making is that whenever I have learnt a new class before, it has taken me a good long time to get the level of confidence with the class that I have now with Scoundrel. For example, when I learnt Sage, it took me months of training and experimenting with things to finally be a match for my friend's vigilance guardian. And even now, being no expert with Sage, it is a close battle any time we duel those two. The story is always the same. I start a new class, then go through months of being destroyed by my friends and squished in WZ before I learn it well enough to hold my own.

Not the case with Scoundrel. Just a few days of solid play and I am able to beat most of my friends' toons and hold up pretty well in regs. Its not me, you could hardly call me skilled. I have just a basic understanding of what the class can do, but its enough to make you decent with it. Sometimes I still need to stealth out to win a duel, which most Scoundrels don't, so that reflects my lack of skill, but its the class making me do this, not me.

So no, I'm not making anything up, and I agree completely with those that say it is the undisputed king of duels. Which means in the hands of someone mediocre like me, it still does pretty well.

That's just the animation. The duration is exactly the same. 18 seconds. Refreshes back to 18 seconds if you apply another one.

That explains why I only see this on Operatives and not Scoundrels, thank you.

Just to clarify, I am fully over what happened in the original post when that Operative didn't die in a 6v1. Since then I have been playing Scoundrel to learn them, and I understand why they can do things like this. Also that occasion in my original post is far from the first time I have seen such things. So yeah, it's what it is.

 

You want spec.. ok. I'm playing Scrapper. I spoke to an extremely good Scoundrel on Darth Malgus who destroyed my Skank tank and she told me Scrapper is better for PVP. Although interestingly she plays Ruffian, but admitted that for PVP it requires a higher skill level than Scrapper, hence she advised me to go with Scrapper.

 

The classes I have already beaten amongst my friends are:

Telekinetic Sage

Guardian Skank

Vigilance Guardian

Plasmatech Vanguard

Gunnery Commando

Concentration Sentinel

 

All 250+ geared with me being 248 and using bolster in Rishi SH if they are 255+.

 

In WZ I am going to the opposing team's turret right from the start (unless a another stealthier is already doing it) with mixed results. Sometimes I am getting taking down quite swiftly. Sometimes there's 2/3 there and I last a good long while before they get me.

 

In WZ at turrets I've lost 1v1 to 2 Assassins (interesting what was said above about sins being able to take down Scoundrels) I usually beat sins on my Skank but I guess I need to find the right way with them on this Scoundrel.

 

By no means am I "skilled" with this class yet. And I make no claims about my friends being in the top 1% PVPers on the server or anything like that. But they are solid long time PVPers who taught me everything I know about PVP when I joined the game 1.5 years ago.

 

The point I am making is that whenever I have learnt a new class before, it has taken me a good long time to get the level of confidence with the class that I have now with Scoundrel. For example, when I learnt Sage, it took me months of training and experimenting with things to finally be a match for my friend's vigilance guardian. And even now, being no expert with Sage, it is a close battle any time we duel those two. The story is always the same. I start a new class, then go through months of being destroyed by my friends and squished in WZ before I learn it well enough to hold my own.

 

Not the case with Scoundrel. Just a few days of solid play and I am able to beat most of my friends' toons and hold up pretty well in regs. Its not me, you could hardly call me skilled. I have just a basic understanding of what the class can do, but its enough to make you decent with it. Sometimes I still need to stealth out to win a duel, which most Scoundrels don't, so that reflects my lack of skill, but its the class making me do this, not me.

 

So no, I'm not making anything up, and I agree completely with those that say it is the undisputed king of duels. Which means in the hands of someone mediocre like me, it still does pretty well.

The class is easy to pick up, but incredibly difficult to master. I can achieve far greater results on the scoreboard and general usefulness to my team by hopping on something like a merc, while having comparable survivability if done right. Operative is not overpowered. There's a reason you only see like 2-3 in the queue at prime time. If you fight against actual skilled players, you'll quickly learn that in 8v8, operative cannot stand toe to toe with the majority of other DPS classes in a group fight unless you have a lot of support on your team with a really good healer and tank. Hell, on my Marauder I can 1v1 like 90% of the ops that normally play on star forge, lmao.

The class is easy to pick up, but incredibly difficult to master. I can achieve far greater results on the scoreboard and general usefulness to my team by hopping on something like a merc, while having comparable survivability if done right. Operative is not overpowered. There's a reason you only see like 2-3 in the queue at prime time. If you fight against actual skilled players, you'll quickly learn that in 8v8, operative cannot stand toe to toe with the majority of other DPS classes in a group fight unless you have a lot of support on your team with a really good healer and tank. Hell, on my Marauder I can 1v1 like 90% of the ops that normally play on star forge, lmao.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that the class is easy to master, hope I didn't give that impression. Easy to pickup, hard to master is a fair assessment.

However everything else you're saying.... that's not my experience and seems to go against what the majority are saying here too. I see far more than 2/ 3 Operatives in a the queue a prime time. On Darth Malgus they are common as muck, and most of them are half decent too. They always survive well in groups battles, even I am finding group battle survivability to be good.

You can't really have people throwing around statements like "undisputed kings of 1v1" and you saying they are "not overpowered" at the same time. It's one or the other. Any class that is top of the tree is overpowered. In an ideal world we would have balance, but we don't, so the apex class will always be considered overpowered.

You say you can 1v1 90% of the Operatives that normally play on starforge? Are we talking killing in WZ or actual duels? If its anything short of an uninterrupted 1v1 at a turret then its not a duel.

You say you can 1v1 90% of the Operatives that normally play on starforge? Are we talking killing in WZ or actual duels? If its anything short of an uninterrupted 1v1 at a turret then its not a duel.

I don't duel very often, although if an operative opens on me, I don't panic. In fact, unless I recognize the name as someone who's actually a half decent player, I literally ignore 99% of the dps operatives I see in warzones. Even if they're delaying a node cap, it's very easy for 1 player to neutralize the threat by sapping or stunning them. The main issue comes when other players come along and break your stuns.

The main issue comes when other players come along and break your stuns.

Ain’t that the truth with every class. How people can’t recognise whirlwind is beyond me.

Ain’t that the truth with every class. How people can’t recognise whirlwind is beyond me.

Yeah, lol. I can understand the annoyance of a mediocre op running around rifle shotting people to stop caps, but really, education is the best defense against them. Do not bother trying to kill the freaking op, just stun them so you can cap and then you don't have to worry about it.

Seriously, 99% of ops don't even know what our abilities are called and will not be able to 1v1 you, much less 1v2 two decent players.

Seriously, 99% of ops don't even know what our abilities are called and will not be able to 1v1 you, much less 1v2 two decent players.

That's not my experience on DM. Good Operatives are dime a dozen in every WZ. I often find myself guarding a node because A) I like it and B) no one else wants to. I would guestimate that 7/10 Operatives / Scoundrels that come to my node, I lose the ensuing duel. Obviously yes I always call for help and can survive long enough for help to arrive no matter what class I am playing. But they are the only class I worry about when they turn up at my node.

That's not my experience on DM. Good Operatives are dime a dozen in every WZ.

Compared to you, maybe.

However everything else you're saying.... that's not my experience and seems to go against what the majority are saying here too. I see far more than 2/ 3 Operatives in a the queue a prime time. On Darth Malgus they are common as muck, and most of them are half decent too. They always survive well in groups battles, even I am finding group battle survivability to be good.

You have to be specific and clear what you mean by "half decent" ops.

If the ops just manages to postpone a node capture for a minute or two, that's fair but not all that awesome of an op. An average operative should be able to hold a node for a long time before losing it to enemies.

Personally I consider good ops the ones that not only can ward off attackers from a node for long periods of time solo, but who also can actually put out some decent DPS.

Yes, ops can put out some very nice and bursty DPS. With roots, interrupts, stuns, and decent burst they are very deadly and these are the guys that I consider good or even great. These types of ops are rare in my experience.

Usually ops are either good at doing DPS, good at being lords of control holding any node for indefinite periods of time no matter how many of the other team tries to take it, but extremely rarely do I see ops that can do both.

The class as mentioned has a very high ceiling, but is very complex and I just think most people end up perfecting only a part of what the class is capable of doing.