Dev Post EricMusco Posted July 3, 2017 Dev Post Share Posted July 3, 2017 Hey folks, Below you will find the upcoming changes for Engineering and Saboteur coming in Game Update 5.3. Note: All changes below are currently in development and are subject to change before being released. Sniper Engineering Reduced the damage of Plasma Probe by approximately 10% and reduced the effectiveness of its slowing effect to 50% (down from 70%)Reduced Cluster Bombs given by Imperial Methodology from 2 to 1Increased energy generation on exploding Cluster Bombs given by Imperial Methodology from 5 to 6Reduced Electrified Railgun damage by 20%Added Takedown to Electrified Blast, yielding an Electrified Railgun stack from using Takedown Gunslinger Saboteur Reduced the damage of Incendiary Grenade by approximately 10% and reduced the effectiveness of its slowing effect to 50% (down from 70%)Reduced Contingency Charges given by Insurrection from 2 to 1Increased energy generation on exploding Contingency Charges given by Insurrection from 5 to 6Reduced Blazing Speed damage by 20%Added Quickdraw to Hot Shot, yielding a Blazing Speed stack from using Quickdraw DevNotes: To bring the Engineering / Saboteur discipline down to its DPS target, we made several changes. We changed skills that affect Cluster Bombs / Contingency Charges to both reduce damage output and overall energy regeneration slightly, because we found Engineering / Saboteur was swimming in too much energy and dealing more damage than intended. But those changes weren’t enough to bring them all the way down to their DPS target, so we also reduced the damage dealt by Electrified Railgun / Blazing Speed and Plasma Probe / Incendiary Grenade to finish the job. We didn’t like that Engineering / Saboteur players might sometimes need to choose between using Takedown / Quickdraw to deal damage or Snipe and Fragmentation Grenade / Charged Burst and Thermal Grenade to keep Electrified Railgun / Blazing Speed rolling on their target, so we added Takedown / Quickdraw to the list of abilities that can apply and refresh Electrified Railgun / Blazing Speed. There are also two more changes we’ve made not related to damage that affect Engineering Snipers / Saboteur Gunslingers. The first is shown in the notes above, where we reduced the effectiveness of Plasma Probe’s / Incendiary Grenade’s slowing effect because it now has an 8 meter radius (up from 5 meters prior to 5.0). We gave it a larger radius in 5.0 because it deals its damage over time, making it easier to avoid than other area of effect attacks like Death Field / Force in Balance and Smash / Force Sweep which deal their damage instantly and only have 5 meter radii. But with the new, larger radius for Plasma Probe / Incendiary Grenade, the old 70% slow turned out to be too strong, so we are toning it down in the 5.3 update. The second change isn’t listed in the notes above because it isn’t a change specific to Engineering / Saboteur. It’s not even a change that has any effect on PvE. For a very long time now, single-target damage over time effects have not interrupted characters from capturing PvP objectives, largely because if they did it would make capturing PvP objectives extremely difficult (nigh impossible, some might say). But until now, that hasn’t prevented all of the area of effect damage over time abilities in the game from interrupting a character who is trying to capture a PvP objective. In 5.3, this will be changing: all AoE DoT abilities, including Plasma Probe / Incendiary Grenade, will be joining Toxic Haze / Bushwhack as abilities that do not interrupt a character who is in the process of capturing a PvP objective. This change is intended to make it easier for attacking teams to capture PvP objectives and reduce the frequency of stalemates in certain PvP Warzones. It is a small change, and it affects few abilities. For example, abilities like Death from Above / Mortar Volley and Suppressive Fire / Sweeping Gunfire which require a character to actively maintain a channel and are not considered “damage over time” effects in SWTOR will still interrupt an enemy character who is trying to capture a PvP objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) In 5.3, this will be changing: all AoE DoT abilities, including Plasma Probe / Incendiary Grenade, will be joining Toxic Haze / Bushwhack as abilities that do not interrupt a character who is in the process of capturing a PvP objective. I think that you went way too far . RIP the best node defending ability. 2012-2017 btw maybe you should buff Orbital Strike instead? I think that you promised to do this a few years ago... Edited July 3, 2017 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schruby Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I think that you went way too far . RIP the best node defending ability. 2012-2017 btw maybe you should buff Orbital Strike instead? I think that you promised to do this a few years ago... What? That was badly needed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenariusJay Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Well, this is the sniper spec I play the most. The AOE movement slow nerf definitely was warranted, no complaint there. The 10% plasma probe nerf doesn't seem warranted, it seems like a "just cuz" type of nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkblubber Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 What are the target DPS you are aiming at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I think that you went way too far . RIP the best node defending ability. 2012-2017 btw maybe you should buff Orbital Strike instead? I think that you promised to do this a few years ago... Pretty much. About the only thing I have a problem with in this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyroman Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 They say that it's swimming in energy then provide a takedown change saying that we could use that instead of snipe. Well I'm not sure they even know the optimal rotation in this spec, because you never use snipe, and pretty much never use takedown (and still won't) because there isn't enough energy in the rotation to use them because a basic attack is required in the rotation. The only other place to use them would be where corrosive dart is used but that does way more damage for the same amount of energy. The need to replace a CD every couple rotations with a second basic attack will hurt so much more than I think they realize. I will edit this post once I can get on my laptop and do some calculations but my first thought is a pretty large nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabachthanus Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) Fix for the most problematic Engineering ability - plasma probe spam to prevent caps and slows. Moderate nerf to damage, but also an Electrified Railgun stack from Takedown. Perhaps slight slight energy problems, but manageable. All in all, I'd call this a good, fair nerf, done without nuking the class. Well done, devs! Edited July 3, 2017 by Sabachthanus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthYun Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Good changes on the probe not interrupting anymore. Can you make shroud able to also purge the slow on plasma probe? Can't be slowed if you resist the probe right? Also commando electro net can't be resisted, kinda related I guess so a kind reminder to fix tha mirrort imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silense Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 " Engineering / Saboteur was swimming in too much energy" & "We didn’t like that Engineering / Saboteur players might sometimes need to choose between using Takedown / Quickdraw to deal damage or Snipe" Pretty sure whoever wrote these statements doesn't know how to play engi/sab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthanimus Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) Now you need to look at the immunities of melee classes. With the dps dropped on eng/sabo, classes that have superior mobility and stun immunity with be too advantaged now! Just in case you still don't know to what specs I am referring I shall spell it out! Concentration/Fury Scrapper/Concealment. A new approach to balancing PvP effectiveness would be Effectiveness = DPS/Time - Mitigation of damage taken/Time (Mobility + defenses + immunities + Self healing + Stealth + etc). Edited July 3, 2017 by Darthanimus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrith Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Now you need to look at the immunities of melee classes. With the dps dropped on eng/sabo, classes that have superior mobility and stun immunity with be too advantaged now! Just in case you still don't know to what specs I am referring I shall spell it out! Concentration/Fury Scrapper/Concealment. A new approach to balancing PvP would be Damage Taken/Time - Mitigation of DPS (Mobility + defenses + immunities + Self healing + etc). Concentration's damage is already lower than the target for it. Its not pitiful but its low. I would like to know how the three gunslinger/sniper builds parse now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthanimus Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Concentration's damage is already lower than the target for it. Its not pitiful but its low. I would like to know how the three gunslinger/sniper builds parse now. They can mitigate a lot of CCs, stuns and slows in PvP. That is the hallmark of an effective class. DPS is at target on the aforementioned specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthobbit Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Can you change the corruption/seer nerfs to something more reasonable like these ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrith Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) They can mitigate a lot of CCs, stuns and slows in PvP. That is the hallmark of an effective class. DPS is at target on the aforementioned specs. Were do you get they are at the right place? There is nearly a 5% difference between the two spec's. One might be at the right place, both cannot be. Espically since concentration is suppose to be 2.5% higher then scrapper but is currently 5% behind it. Edited July 3, 2017 by Sargrith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Hey folks, Below you will find the upcoming changes for Engineering and Saboteur coming in Game Update 5.3. Great and fair changes. Maybe 15% reduction on railgun would be more fair. 20% is too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XhrisShan Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) " Engineering / Saboteur was swimming in too much energy" & "We didn’t like that Engineering / Saboteur players might sometimes need to choose between using Takedown / Quickdraw to deal damage or Snipe" Pretty sure whoever wrote these statements doesn't know how to play engi/sab. Exactly. I have an Excel spreadsheet open right now showing a detailed breakdown of resource use for all DPS specs, and even with a basic attack in the Sabo/Engi rotation it's still a net loss (moreso if noone in your raidgroup can apply the Marked debuff, so you have to do it yourself with Vital Shot/Corrosive Dart). Seriously, especially after the other posted class changes, it's like these guys go out of their way to show how little they know about resource management. Once again, reposting an earlier suggestion I made for this aspect of the spec: Engineering/Saboteur has resource management issues; have Imperial Methodology/Insurrection be tied to Series of Shots/Speed Shot ticks, not Cluster Bomb/Contingency Charge detonations. THAT SAID, the other changes I consider good. Edited July 3, 2017 by XhrisShan Additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XhrisShan Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Also, they keep saying "dw guise, these changes aren't final" but not once have they responded to feedback in the threads. So devs, when are you gonna keep that promise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthanimus Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Were do you get they are at the right place? There is nearly a 5% difference between the two spec's. One might be at the right place, both cannot be. Espically since concentration is suppose to be 2.5% higher then scrapper but is currently 5% behind it. You obviously know some crap sentinels then, I know soem very talented ones and trust me the dps is not lacking, by any ones standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrith Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 You obviously know some crap sentinels then, I know soem very talented ones and trust me the dps is not lacking, by any ones standards. I know the actual numbers, not some random well I think they are ok feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menofhorror Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Good changes! I approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittyKat_Karrot Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) Plasma Probe nerfs are good, and the others are fine I guess. Not sure what you're talking about when you say the spec is swimming in energy. I have to worry about energy more in engi spec than in the other 2 sniper specs. But I only PVP so maybe it's different in PVE. Edited July 3, 2017 by KittyKat_Karrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Reasonable measured changes. Why the inconsistency with this round of balancing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthanimus Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I know the actual numbers, not some random well I think they are ok feelings. You missed the point, I have seen concentration preform amazingly, on dummy and in PvP with regards to dps. Trust me they are better than good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 it seems like a "just cuz" type of nerf. Yup, the next time people will cry for class balance they should remember these changes, all classes are getting nerfed quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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