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Why isn't there a WZ quitters cooldown?


bodhisattvasw

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If they had a warzone quiters debuff, then there wouldn't be any pvp in the game. lol

 

No it wouldn't, there are plenty of MMOs with quitter debuffs out there that have no problem fielding PVP teams. We also have a Debuff in place for the first person that leaves a FP, yet you don't see people QQing about that, the queue times might be slightly longer than they would be without, but you end up finishing more of them than you don't finish, and also you spend less time waiting for that first pop, than you would waiting for a replacement every 5 minutes because you keeping wiping and people can't stand not one shotting everything.

Edited by SuperGrunt
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At least quitting is taking more responsibility for your own desire to not play with an undergeared player than just kicking them out of a group you didn't even bother to create yourself. Yes, suggesting he go fix his gear and come back later would probably be more productive than just quitting, but if he's determined to challenge himself by trying to fight undergeared, there's not really much you can do about it, nor should be able to do about it, other than quit and/or stop letting Bioware pick your teammates and make a pre-made with a minimum gear requirement. Although one would hope someone who wants to challenge themselves being undergeared would test it out in duels rather than warzones, and you could tell them as much. However, being undergeared isn't technically against the terms of service, nor should it be.

 

The Terms of Service are not a shield to protect you. They are there to establish rules under which you can be punished outside of the game. IE Not just a slight debuff for being a total jerk and saying, "F everyone else, I helped you lose and don't care, bye."

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Actually I wasn't the one who brought Pre-mades into this discussion, and I shut him up by pointing out that fact to him. Yet you continue to go on about it.

 

Point of the matter is that if you want to go up against pre-mades then you wouldn't be in unranked PVP ROFLstomping PUGs in Recruit Armor. You would nut up get a 8 man group and go ranked. My ideas to improve WZs are as follows.

 

1. Pre-made groups in WH/EWH have no business in PUG WZs. If you want to group up, there is a queue for that, it's called Ranked WZs, get a bigger group, grow a pair and earn your victory, or accept your defeat.

2. Ranked WZs need to be able to have smaller groups so that people that can only get a 4 man group together have something that they can do other than Solo Queue for unranked WZs.

3. Leaving ANY group content for ANY reason that is not due to other people kicking you should result in you being prevented from doing that same activity for a period of time. I personally feel that 30 minutes is reasonable, if you don't then obviously the Dev team would take both opinions into consideration, and get more feedback than just ours, and make a decision, that we would both have to deal with, and likely neither one of us would be happy with.

4. People that join an WZ or FP or Ops in-progress should get some added incentive for joining it, and should also know before hand that they are joining it in-progress.

5. People complaining that if such and such happens they are leaving, in my opinion just need to leave. That is childish and not progressing the discussion.

 

I feel that all of these would help to alleviate the Quitter epidemic that we have, but at least 2 of them are really not on topic for this thread.

 

Actually, having work to do shut me up, not you or your comments.

 

I brought up "premades" as a reason I leave, hence my desire for not having a debuff, so I was 100% on-topic. I don't quit when I'm losing, but I do play this MMO (any MMO) to be with the people I want to play with. Removing my ability to group up in an MMO makes this more like a console shooter where you get split up into teams. That's stupid.

 

Your idea that I should be penalized in any way for grouping with other people in an MMO is laughable. Whether we drop from a HM FP or NiM Ops or a WZ that my friend didn't make it into, NO penalty should be imposed because all that would lead to is LESS people doing said activity. But...I think your real reason for wanting punishment is because you despise premades (judging by all that you've written).

 

I'll offer you similar advice to what you posted for #1 - "grow a pair" and start a group. You're welcome.

 

#4 of your "ideas" is the only one I agree with. I'd love to know if I'm joining a WZ in progress because I do solo queue probably 40-50% of the time. I think that rather than punishing quitters, the better idea would be to reward the people who stay. Not unjustly, but fairly. And the people who are fill-ins, deserve a reward as well - something like the average of the teams medals at the time seems fair. If the team has 28 medals total, I'd get 4 just for joining. This is something I'm 100% in agreement with you on.

 

Punishments don't work...they lead to less people doing something and encourage worse behavior by people who would have otherwise left.

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Adding a debuff where you would be prevented from joining a WZ again for X minutes would not be anyone telling you what to, or not to do. It would simply be adding some consequence for you rage quitting a WZ. As I said in a earlier post in another MMO with larger groups where this wouldn't be such a problem there is still a debuff for leaving a PVP match, as is there in most other MMOs.

 

With the small size of groups in WZs in this game, 1 person leaving can swing a winning WZ into a losing WZ.

 

The problem here though isn't the rare, "Oh crap family aggro I gotta go," moments. I don't complain when I back fill a winning WZ. It's the "Oh well, we're losing, and I feel entitled to win, BYE!" ones that are the problem. You aren't entitled to anything other than life liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the US. You winning a WZ would be the end goal of that pursuit of happiness, but notice I said pursuit, not happiness. Winning a WZ might be happiness, but happiness isn't the right we where promised, it's the pursuit of happiness. Meaning you have to work for that happiness.

 

It isn't Bioware's responsibility to enforce consequences for poor gameplay decisions. In ops, Bioware doesn't stop you from doing hardmodes in Recruit gear; ops leaders refuse to invite you. If you really think you can do it in Recruit gear, you are free to start your own group and try to find people willing to test your theory with you. Bioware doesn't stop you with a screen saying "sorry, you aren't allowed here" if you try to run through an opposite faction city with defenders 25 levels above you on your way to a datacron; you should not however be surprised if your character dies in the attempt. And possibly makes it through after a medical probe or two. Bioware doesn't prevent sentinels from entering heroic areas after they deliberately try to out-aggro the tank; their group-mates may lose patience with them.

 

Yes, of course there's a huge difference between "my family needs me" and "I don't want to lose, bye". And yes, the people who leave far too late in the match for a backfiller to get even one medal are really annoying. (That late in the match, if you do genuinely have to go take care of family, please do just go AFK.) But it's not really a distinction you can ever expect a computer to make, aside from perhaps looking at how far into the match the person quit, but even then, a computer could never tell as well as a person. Which is another reason those sorts of judgement calls should be left to raid leaders, not computer servers. And a diversity of raid leaders allows for a wide variety of viewpoints on the matter to be represented.

 

And legal rights really have nothing to do with this, aside from legal rights not to be literally forced to do anything you don't want so long as you aren't under arrest by the police (pressured, yes, gun to your head, no), and to spend your own money as you choose (post-taxes). Which I don't think anyone is disputing, as no one has suggested any consequences of a legal nature.

 

I've never disagreed that one person leaving can swing the balance, turning a win into a loss. But it's besides the point. For one thing, in the grand scheme of things, whether it's a win or a loss has no impact on anyone's real life; failure to pay attention to one's family does. For another, many of the same people who do quit for all the wrong reasons have already declared that they would game the system, going semi-AFK and putting in just enough effort to stop any AFK detection methods from working. Better that they just quit early on rather than gaming the system or sitting there complaining about how we have no chance and demoralizing the rest of the group. Which is fine if the match is just about over anyway, but not so great early on, only a minute or so in when a backfiller would still have plenty of time to get medals and turn the match around. So any computer-imposed debuff should a) be sensitive to how far into a match the person quit (big difference between quitting a minute in, or before the match has even started, and 30 seconds before the end) b) never exceed 5 minutes, to reduce collateral against people who left to take care of family or simply have a faulty internet and c) the match you just left should be exempted (so you can backfill into your own slot after a disconnect).

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Lol. People are still posting even after the devs said nothing is going to happen? Lol. This is too funny. :D

 

They can choose as they wish, and I'll govern myself accordingly.

 

But there are other games coming that fix all of the problems with SWTOR's PVP. I'd rather do my PVP here in Star Wars, but every time I see quitters bolt from a warzone 30 seconds in, that becomes a little less possible.

 

Besides, they said they WERE looking at part of it, so IMHO, the story isn't over on this yet.

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Actually, having work to do shut me up, not you or your comments.

 

I brought up "premades" as a reason I leave, hence my desire for not having a debuff, so I was 100% on-topic. I don't quit when I'm losing, but I do play this MMO (any MMO) to be with the people I want to play with. Removing my ability to group up in an MMO makes this more like a console shooter where you get split up into teams. That's stupid.

 

Your idea that I should be penalized in any way for grouping with other people in an MMO is laughable. Whether we drop from a HM FP or NiM Ops or a WZ that my friend didn't make it into, NO penalty should be imposed because all that would lead to is LESS people doing said activity. But...I think your real reason for wanting punishment is because you despise premades (judging by all that you've written).

 

I'll offer you similar advice to what you posted for #1 - "grow a pair" and start a group. You're welcome.

 

#4 of your "ideas" is the only one I agree with. I'd love to know if I'm joining a WZ in progress because I do solo queue probably 40-50% of the time. I think that rather than punishing quitters, the better idea would be to reward the people who stay. Not unjustly, but fairly. And the people who are fill-ins, deserve a reward as well - something like the average of the teams medals at the time seems fair. If the team has 28 medals total, I'd get 4 just for joining. This is something I'm 100% in agreement with you on.

 

Punishments don't work...they lead to less people doing something and encourage worse behavior by people who would have otherwise left.

 

Considering I only just yesterday finally got rid of my last Recruit piece and have more than my fair share of wins under my belt, assuming that 50% of the people in a WZ have to lose. I don't think I need your advice that I should form/join a group. When I do join a group for PVP it's for Ranked WZs only. I don't feel that Pre-mades have any place in our unranked WZs. So I guess I have more of a pair than you do, because I quite often get into WZs against Pre-mades, and I don't leave just because I am losing, I leave because the WZ has ended. I don't state things that I don't follow.

 

Your idea that you shouldn't be punished for punishing other people for being randomly grouped with someone who decides to leave is ridiculous. You choose to accept a Queue as soon as it pops and then leave b/c one or more of your group members didn't make it into the WZ, sorry but you should accept the consequences, or not accept the queue pop. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if you get a debuff for leaving a WZ that you wouldn't get it if you didn't go into the WZ.

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What they should implement most urgently, in my opinion, is if a certain amount of people have quit a warzone stop backfilling and end it right there. There is no point in playing it to the end anyway in this scenario, so everyone can move on to the next one and hope for better luck there

 

Just freeze an equal number of players on the opposing team until the other team has its back-filled members entering the warzone.

 

Fixes all of the problems. A few players on the other team get frozen for a minute or two, but hey, those are the breaks. If we're honestly pretending that warzones are at all equitable and that it's supposed to be possible for a team to win, then a few heads are going to get knocked one way or another.

 

If we ABSOLUTELY MUST refrain from debuffing any player for leaving a warzone, then it's time to equalize the warzone in another manner.... freeze members of the opposing team for the time necessary until the match is on equal footing again.

 

Done!

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The Terms of Service are not a shield to protect you. They are there to establish rules under which you can be punished outside of the game. IE Not just a slight debuff for being a total jerk and saying, "F everyone else, I helped you lose and don't care, bye."

 

The Terms of Service are the limit of what Bioware should get involved in. A computer server cannot tell if some said, "Goodbye, I can't stand to lose, but I only decided this 30 seconds before the end of the match, and I don't care about the poor backfiller who will join and not get a single medal," or "My wife is shouting! Bye!" Computers cannot tell if people are being jerks; that is for other people to attempt to determine. Hence why you should just make a pre-made and discuss in advance what your reliability expectations are.

 

And I doubt Bioware has ever sued a customer or otherwise punished them "outside the game". What happens in SWTOR stays in SWTOR, for the most part. Perhaps at most you might get a silence from speaking in chat channels or a ban. But they're not going to come after you and sue you, or at least I doubt it. If someone else wanted to sue you, Bioware might give them your information, but only in response to a legal subpoena; but generally people just ignore list you rather than resorting to that sort of thing.

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Just freeze an equal number of players on the opposing team until the other team has its back-filled members entering the warzone.

 

Fixes all of the problems. A few players on the other team get frozen for a minute or two, but hey, those are the breaks. If we're honestly pretending that warzones are at all equitable and that it's supposed to be possible for a team to win, then a few heads are going to get knocked one way or another.

 

If we ABSOLUTELY MUST refrain from debuffing any player for leaving a warzone, then it's time to equalize the warzone in another manner.... freeze members of the opposing team for the time necessary until the match is on equal footing again.

 

Done!

 

How many medals per minute does the frozen player earn while frozen? What if they get frozen right when they're about to get their first killing blow, or are in the middle of a 1v1 fight over a node, or are in the middle of planting a bomb in Voidstar? Have you really thought this through?

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The Terms of Service are the limit of what Bioware should get involved in. A computer server cannot tell if some said, "Goodbye, I can't stand to lose, but I only decided this 30 seconds before the end of the match, and I don't care about the poor backfiller who will join and not get a single medal," or "My wife is shouting! Bye!" Computers cannot tell if people are being jerks; that is for other people to attempt to determine. Hence why you should just make a pre-made and discuss in advance what your reliability expectations are.

 

And I doubt Bioware has ever sued a customer or otherwise punished them "outside the game". What happens in SWTOR stays in SWTOR, for the most part. Perhaps at most you might get a silence from speaking in chat channels or a ban. But they're not going to come after you and sue you, or at least I doubt it. If someone else wanted to sue you, Bioware might give them your information, but only in response to a legal subpoena; but generally people just ignore list you rather than resorting to that sort of thing.

 

Well according you your argument BioWare has no business banning people for exploiting unintended actions that don't violate the TOS. Guess what, they did just that, when they banned people for opening chests on Ilum near launch on lowbies. There was nothing in the TOS that states you can't take a lowbie onto Ilum and camp a chest spawn, but they still banned people for doing it. Also they didn't ban people but they fixed the unintended feature of faster leveling on Ilum by removing the bolster from the Western Ice Shelf, they stated it wasn't against the TOS, it wasn't an exploit but they still inserted themselves in the situation, which by your logic they shouldn't. TOS isn't the extent of their control, nor their responsibility. It is simply the extent to which they have the rights to end your access to the game servers, for what ever period of time. As I stated before a debuff which prevents you from queueing for a WZ is not preventing you from playing the game nor is it preventing you from quitting, it is simply giving you a consequence for quitting a WZ. No computer, nor any person should be deciding one way or another the merits of your reasons for leaving a WZ. If you leave for any reason before it ends you should get a debuff, it's fair and it's simple.

 

As for your second paragraph see my above mentioning of banning. While the TOS does allow for BioWare to sue people, it would only be used in the most extreme of situations, not in a situation where a ban would be appropriate.

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Considering I only just yesterday finally got rid of my last Recruit piece and have more than my fair share of wins under my belt, assuming that 50% of the people in a WZ have to lose. I don't think I need your advice that I should form/join a group. When I do join a group for PVP it's for Ranked WZs only. I don't feel that Pre-mades have any place in our unranked WZs. So I guess I have more of a pair than you do, because I quite often get into WZs against Pre-mades, and I don't leave just because I am losing, I leave because the WZ has ended. I don't state things that I don't follow.

 

Your idea that you shouldn't be punished for punishing other people for being randomly grouped with someone who decides to leave is ridiculous. You choose to accept a Queue as soon as it pops and then leave b/c one or more of your group members didn't make it into the WZ, sorry but you should accept the consequences, or not accept the queue pop. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if you get a debuff for leaving a WZ that you wouldn't get it if you didn't go into the WZ.

 

So, because you have no ability/desire to join a group, you want to prevent ME from doing so as well? And how have those many ranked matches you've played turned out? Since you only do Ranked when you're grouped, I assume you've done many...in your Recruit gear?

 

What server are you on and what are your toon names? I'd like to verify that you a) group and b) only do ranked in that group.

 

Let's look at this another way ok? I get my queue pop, I enter, but my buddy is loading into Ilum at the time and misses the *pop*. Since, unlike you, I enjoy playing with others who aren't forced upon me by the server, I want to make sure my friend and I can do our next WZ together asap. Right now, I'd leave, leaving plenty of time for a replacement to take my spot prior to the match starting.

 

But you...you would rather have me leave and get a 30min debuff...or get the match over as fast as possible? My choice would be easy...I'd stand on the ledge in Huttball, pull the ball carrier closer to the goal, faux guard a node, not call incoming, sit in a corner and go fold my laundry, flip on Duck Dynasty and turn back just enough times to "engage" in combat. That's STUPID!!!

 

I hate quitters too, but I understand that I can win with replacements vs players who don't want to be there and I realize that sometimes, RL interferes with gaming. Sucks...but that's life. I don't ever queue with an intention to leave...I doubt anyone does. Punishing players is NOT the answer.

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How many medals per minute does the frozen player earn while frozen? What if they get frozen right when they're about to get their first killing blow, or are in the middle of a 1v1 fight over a node, or are in the middle of planting a bomb in Voidstar? Have you really thought this through?

 

You have a valid point there, if they where going to do something along the lines of what he suggests, they should freeze the entire WZ, the players, the objectives, everything, in addition to giving the back fills extra medals, based on the amount of time remaining in the match.

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How many medals per minute does the frozen player earn while frozen? What if they get frozen right when they're about to get their first killing blow, or are in the middle of a 1v1 fight over a node, or are in the middle of planting a bomb in Voidstar? Have you really thought this through?

 

You could assign some sort of an "average gift" of medals for the player that's frozen, similar to the amount of medals calculated to give to incoming players who are backfilling someone else's abandoned warzone.

 

I believe it can be tweaked to still be equitable, even to players that are temporarily frozen for a backfill.

 

You could also assign some additional filters so that the system would automatically look for a player that is NOT in combat to freeze, although eventually you're going to have to pick someone.

 

Besides, no one has any concern over how many processes a team has in progress when a few of their team members quit (due to no fault or ability to control said abandonment) by the players remaining on the team.

 

So at some point, being concerned about what the OTHER team is doing has to take a back-seat to insuring the game is a fair fight.

 

And yes, I've thought it through. Check the link in my Sig for the link to my full post with a full list of concerns as to how the system should proc through the list to find a suitable member to freeze. I think it's a valid system.

 

Show me any solution from any poster that is anywhere near as fair and equitable as a simple system to make sure that if a match becomes imbalanced, the system takes over to mitigate the imbalance until it is restored and balanced at least in terms of equal numbers of players on each side?

 

Seems to me like most people are just saying hit the quitter with a debuff or ignore it. Well, apparently BioWare is somehow scared crapless of attaching quitter debuffs. And ignoring this problem is just pure stupid. So what are the other alternatives?

Edited by Kubernetic
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You have a valid point there, if they where going to do something along the lines of what he suggests, they should freeze the entire WZ, the players, the objectives, everything, in addition to giving the back fills extra medals, based on the amount of time remaining in the match.

 

Freezing the entire match is excessive, and you'll most likely just lead to more people quitting a warzone.

 

Why not temporarily (30 seconds?) inconvenience one player on the opposite team for each quitter rather than punish the entire warzone and 100% of both teams at once?

 

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. The point is to make the match still fun and worthwhile to play for those remaining in the match.

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You could assign some sort of an "average gift" of medals for the player that's frozen, similar to the amount of medals calculated to give to incoming players who are backfilling someone else's abandoned warzone.

 

I believe it can be tweaked to still be equitable, even to players that are temporarily frozen for a backfill.

 

You could also assign some additional filters so that the system would automatically look for a player that is NOT in combat to freeze, although eventually you're going to have to pick someone.

 

Besides, no one has any concern over how many processes a team has in progress when a few of their team members quit (due to no fault or ability to control said abandonment) by the players remaining on the team.

 

So at some point, being concerned about what the OTHER team is doing has to take a back-seat to insuring the game is a fair fight.

 

And yes, I've thought it through. Show me any solution from any poster that is anywhere near as fair and equitable as a simple system to make sure that if a match becomes imbalanced, the system takes over to mitigate the imbalance until it is restored and balanced at least in terms of equal numbers of players on each side?

Interesting idea...

 

So you're suggesting that if 1 player quits on the Pubs, one Imp player is frozen until a replacement player is ready to go? If that's right, I'd suggest starting with the LAST person to enter the WZ be "frozen", as that provides incentive to take the queue pop sooner, rather than waiting until there's 1 sec left. Award a medal upon the 'freeze' and one for every 15 (or so) sec's a player is frozen.

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You have a valid point there, if they where going to do something along the lines of what he suggests, they should freeze the entire WZ, the players, the objectives, everything, in addition to giving the back fills extra medals, based on the amount of time remaining in the match.

 

That could actually work. But there would have to be some sort of mechanism to allow people to vote "we don't care about balance, we just want to get this over with already", otherwise people could easily get stuck waiting 5 minutes or longer for a replacement to queue up, especially during slower hours. Or if the match is about to end anyway.

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Please stop with this ridiculous idea of freezing players. If I became frozen for ANY amount of time because someone disconnected or rage quit, I would never pvp again. And no amount of comms would make up for the unbelievable frustration that would come from being frozen due to people quitting.

 

In fact, people would start doing it on purpose to grief the other team.

 

It's funny that we have at least 1 'WZ quitters" thread at least once a month since the game has been out and people still have no idea how to fix the actual problem. Everyone is focused on what to do with the players that quit instead of asking the important question - WHY are they quitting?

 

Fix that first.

 

And in case you don't know why people quit, it's because they feel like they don't have a chance to win. This is usually because one team has the most skilled players or a better group composition. If you fix this, you may not entirely fix people leaving, but people will want to stay if they know they have a decent chance of winning.

 

We need individual ratings for pvp so we match equally skilled players against equally skilled players. Then you'll stop the wz quitters posts. Then you will stop all the premade vs pug posts. Then you will stop the recruit gear vs ewh posts.

 

Stop trying to treat the symptoms instead of the actual problem.

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So, because you have no ability/desire to join a group, you want to prevent ME from doing so as well? And how have those many ranked matches you've played turned out? Since you only do Ranked when you're grouped, I assume you've done many...in your Recruit gear?

 

What server are you on and what are your toon names? I'd like to verify that you a) group and b) only do ranked in that group.

 

Let's look at this another way ok? I get my queue pop, I enter, but my buddy is loading into Ilum at the time and misses the *pop*. Since, unlike you, I enjoy playing with others who aren't forced upon me by the server, I want to make sure my friend and I can do our next WZ together asap. Right now, I'd leave, leaving plenty of time for a replacement to take my spot prior to the match starting.

 

But you...you would rather have me leave and get a 30min debuff...or get the match over as fast as possible? My choice would be easy...I'd stand on the ledge in Huttball, pull the ball carrier closer to the goal, faux guard a node, not call incoming, sit in a corner and go fold my laundry, flip on Duck Dynasty and turn back just enough times to "engage" in combat. That's STUPID!!!

 

I hate quitters too, but I understand that I can win with replacements vs players who don't want to be there and I realize that sometimes, RL interferes with gaming. Sucks...but that's life. I don't ever queue with an intention to leave...I doubt anyone does. Punishing players is NOT the answer.

 

No actually I have not queued for Ranked WZ's, as I did not want to do so while I had any recruit pieces still equipped. I also do not queue in groups. I will not now, nor ever will I reveal my toons names on the forums, it creates drama and it's not a situation I enjoy, so I guess you will have to take my word for it, unless you happen to be guilded with me in which case you already would know who my characters are.

 

In the case of leaving during prep, then no I would not institute the debuff, if you wait till the door opens and you can leave then yep you should get the debuff because you took too long to decide to leave there by creating a window in which during combat you created a disparity which granted the opposing team an advantage for a period of time. Accepting a queue for an in-progress WZ wouldn't be an issue if we did get a warning on those which I also suggested.

 

The problem isn't that people intend to leave a WZ when they queue for it. The problem is that, as soon as some people see 2 caps on Civil War, or any other time where a team starts out in a semi bad situation they say, "F this team bye." The problem also isn't people that have real world situation which cause them to need to leave a WZ, they would be what we call collateral damage. Yep it sucks but crap happens some times, and people that shouldn't be punished often are as a result of punishing those that do deserve it. In a perfect world no one would need to be punished, but we shouldn't spare all because a minority have legit reasons to leave. We should reward those who replace people who leave. Then we would have a more optimal situation where yes you would lose some small amount of access for leaving a WZ early, but wouldn't be punishing people who join to replace a quitter. Granted 30 minutes might be a bit extreme but I think the smallest amount of time that should even be considered would be the exact amount of time that the particular WZ would take from start to finish to complete, starting at the moment that you leave a WZ. Yes, real life happens and it does suck when it interferes with game play, but the fact that it does should not ever prevent anyone from handling a situation in which any one is preventing anyone else from having a fair shot.

 

I am not saying that my solution is the best, because the best solution would be for people to just stop leaving WZs and accept what comes out of them. But we don't live in a perfect world, we live in a dark, dirty world, and sometimes living in this dark, dirty world, everyone has to eat a crap sandwich. I got my share while I was getting rid of that Recruit gear, and every time someone left and caused me to lose a WZ, because they couldn't pull their weight. Yes, I blame quitters for losses, b/c a fair portion of the time, when there is still time to turn it around, we can pull off victories in spite of them leaving.

 

As to what you would do if they implemented my solution, that's just insane. Play the effn WZ or don't bother queueing. Trust me I would rather you not queue than to suffer the consequences of having you in a WZ with me.

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Please stop with this ridiculous idea of freezing players. If I became frozen for ANY amount of time because someone disconnected or rage quit, I would never pvp again. And no amount of comms would make up for the unbelievable frustration that would come from being frozen due to people quitting.

 

In fact, people would start doing it on purpose to grief the other team.

 

It's funny that we have at least 1 'WZ quitters" thread at least once a month since the game has been out and people still have no idea how to fix the actual problem. Everyone is focused on what to do with the players that quit instead of asking the important question - WHY are they quitting?

 

Fix that first.

 

And in case you don't know why people quit, it's because they feel like they don't have a chance to win. This is usually because one team has the most skilled players or a better group composition. If you fix this, you may not entirely fix people leaving, but people will want to stay if they know they have a decent chance of winning.

 

We need individual ratings for pvp so we match equally skilled players against equally skilled players. Then you'll stop the wz quitters posts. Then you will stop all the premade vs pug posts. Then you will stop the recruit gear vs ewh posts.

 

Stop trying to treat the symptoms instead of the actual problem.

 

And how do you determine these "individual ratings"? What's your exact solution, if mine isn't functional?

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this thread makes me sad. a dev came in and gave a definitive answer to one of the dozen major questions that constantly gets repeated and goes unanswered. result: nothing's changed. the topic is as hot as ever. I don't think they'll ever publicly address the bs resolve mechanics and the 1.4 changes at this rate.
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Interesting idea...

 

So you're suggesting that if 1 player quits on the Pubs, one Imp player is frozen until a replacement player is ready to go? If that's right, I'd suggest starting with the LAST person to enter the WZ be "frozen", as that provides incentive to take the queue pop sooner, rather than waiting until there's 1 sec left. Award a medal upon the 'freeze' and one for every 15 (or so) sec's a player is frozen.

 

I like this idea. I am shamelessly stealing it and adding it to my filter priority list. :)

 

I also don't know if medals are enough. I think maybe a +25 Comms bonus for a frozen player might be in order, especially since it's randomly selected, to encourage frozen players to hang on through the freeze and continue.

 

I do understand what it means to be sacked out of a match for no fault of your own in one of these "freeze beams", and I am not opposed to compensating them as needed.

 

I just want fair matches and for the quitters to stop harming either team as is currently happening. That's all. I just want the damned thing fixed.

Edited by Kubernetic
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You could assign some sort of an "average gift" of medals for the player that's frozen, similar to the amount of medals calculated to give to incoming players who are backfilling someone else's abandoned warzone.

 

I believe it can be tweaked to still be equitable, even to players that are temporarily frozen for a backfill.

 

You could also assign some additional filters so that the system would automatically look for a player that is NOT in combat to freeze, although eventually you're going to have to pick someone.

 

Besides, no one has any concern over how many processes a team has in progress when a few of their team members quit (due to no fault or ability to control said abandonment) by the players remaining on the team.

 

So at some point, being concerned about what the OTHER team is doing has to take a back-seat to insuring the game is a fair fight.

 

And yes, I've thought it through. Check the link in my Sig for the link to my full post with a full list of concerns as to how the system should proc through the list to find a suitable member to freeze. I think it's a valid system.

 

Show me any solution from any poster that is anywhere near as fair and equitable as a simple system to make sure that if a match becomes imbalanced, the system takes over to mitigate the imbalance until it is restored and balanced at least in terms of equal numbers of players on each side?

 

Seems to me like most people are just saying hit the quitter with a debuff or ignore it. Well, apparently BioWare is somehow scared crapless of attaching quitter debuffs. And ignoring this problem is just pure stupid. So what are the other alternatives?

 

I suppose one medal on freeze and more the longer the freeze continues would take some of the sting out of losing out on a killing blow and not being able to do things to earn more; however, there's a lot more to balance than equal numbers. If a computer starts freezing people without knowing what they might be in the middle of, defending a node, or taking one, or planting a bomb, or whatever, people's plans they they worked hard for go south for no fault of their own. And supposing the person who quit was an undergeared healer anyway who kept getting obliterated before they could hardly do any healing, but the one who gets frozen on the other side is their top healer? I'm sure you have a solution to that too, but 30 seconds of "inconvenience" can win or lose a match if you freeze someone who was in the middle of planting a bomb. And why should that person and their team be penalized for someone else's... whatever happened.

 

If you really want to ensure matches are a fair fight, why not give everyone the same gear? Either get rid of war hero and have everyone in recruit, or make war hero purchasable by everyone without commendations? Kiting gives people and unfair advantage over people who can't kite. Maybe we should find a way to stop that too. While were at it, why don't we make sure everyone has the same skills? So no unbalanced fights just because one side has more healers.

 

It's not supposed to be perfectly fair all the time. You can try to make classes balanced mechanically to classes on the other side, but you can't balance things where player choice is concerned.

Edited by Dawncatcher
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There are many games that already have match making systems for their pvp. I'm not a developer. If I was trust me, this would have been in place at launch. I don't care how the system is done, I just care that it gets done. And I realize that it would help with all these other things people love to complain about.

 

In regards to your solution of freezing someone, why not bolster someone instead? Nobody likes to be stunned is my only qualm with your idea. Instead of stopping someone from playing on the other team, why not bolster the damage and/or healing output of the team that lost the player that quit to compensate?

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Please stop with this ridiculous idea of freezing players. If I became frozen for ANY amount of time because someone disconnected or rage quit, I would never pvp again. And no amount of comms would make up for the unbelievable frustration that would come from being frozen due to people quitting.

 

In fact, people would start doing it on purpose to grief the other team.

 

Yeah, I expect that is how a lot of people would respond. And I couldn't blame them.

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