Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Jedi Shadow - DPS Rotation


Seratisak's Avatar


Seratisak
12.25.2011 , 02:00 AM | #11
So its a few days later...

Im finding top pve dps to be with balance spec.

Pvp would be a big yes to infultration.



i dont quite have a balance spec dps rotation yet but im working on one (it feels more proc heavy then infultration.) its alot of rng but with high crit you can chain a crap tone of dps.
Revren, SpaceSlug, Shadow

Halja's Avatar


Halja
12.25.2011 , 07:12 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
This isn't anything approaching a good rotation for Infiltration. First off, opening with Shadow Strike is simply bad play. When it doesn't have Find Weakness, it's better to just use Double Strike. Similarly, you never want to use Project without its applicable proc (Circling Shadows) for pretty much the exact same reason you don't use Shadow Strike.

If you really wanted to go with a fight starting attack string:

Stealth>Force Breach>Double Strike>Double Strike>Project

After that, you simply continue to keep Force Breach on CD, use Shadow Strike whenever Find Weakness is up, and use Project only after 2 Double Strikes (at 40+, replace Double Strike with Clairvoyant Strike). Saber Strike is, of course, used when you don't have the Force to use whatever your trying to use.

You never want to use TK Throw since it takes too long to do too little damage, and you're risking even less efficiency if you get hit and pushbacked during the cast. An Infiltration, the only regular force powers you use are Force Breach and Project.
I am getting really sick of hearing all the hate against using shadowstrike when find weakness isn't up.

Its a force Dump, essentially. Coming right out of stealth using breach, following with a setup for projects and following through seems great on paper, except that most fights you will end with 40-50 force left.

Opening with shadowstrike>low slash>Mind Crush>Breach is a lot more damage before an elite even has a chance to hit you, and you end the combo with around 80 force. (although you can only do this once you hit 30). Before this, opening with shadowstrike>breach is perfectly acceptable, as long as you arn't using the ability so much that you become starved of force.

The point is that it's useful to stop yourself from force capping, and people who don't use thier head and apply blanket rules to things just serve to confuse people.

Also, to the OP, make sure you are using blackout whenever its up as infiltration (After the initial 6 seconds of bonus force have ended).
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle"

Jaan'car Ashan - 50 Shadow - Swiftsure

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.25.2011 , 10:23 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Halja View Post
The point is that it's useful to stop yourself from force capping, and people who don't use thier head and apply blanket rules to things just serve to confuse people.
None of the abilities that a Shadow uses provide a net gain in Force so there's no threat of Force capping if you use the abilities as I said. If anything, using the Force cap defense is completely innane since no Shadow should ever play anywhere near full Force except at the start of a fight. It's for this exact reason that Vigor is functionally worthless.

The blanket rule is applied simply because *it's true*. There may, on occasion, be a situation that merits using Shadow Strike without Find Weakness, but, in a *vast* majority of the times, it's only useful to use it with Find Weakness. If anyone is confusing people, it's individuals like you that insist that Shadow Strike is useful outside of Find Weakness, citing groundless points and rare occurrences, when the entire point of the blanket rule is to give people a standard by which to operate. If there are exceptions, you don't need to include them because anyone capable of seeing said exception wouldn't need to be told a blanket rule in the first place.

And example of this would be the blanket rule for Kinetic Combat: Don't use Project without Particle Acceleration. There is very little reason to use Project as a Kinetic outside of Particle Acceleration so I'm not going to tell people that there are *some* exceptions and then expect them to remember them when they need to be told that Project is inefficient and terrible without the proc in question. Personally, I do, on occasion, use it outside of PA explicitly to save Harnessed Shadows stacks when I go through a PA proc dry spell. This is an exception. Never using Project outside of PA is the rule. They are not incompatible.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Seratisak's Avatar


Seratisak
12.26.2011 , 04:14 AM | #14
Kk no bull, Bal spec is far more dps sub 50 then anything else.

my recount told me so fyi
Revren, SpaceSlug, Shadow

Forkrul's Avatar


Forkrul
12.26.2011 , 08:10 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
None of the abilities that a Shadow uses provide a net gain in Force so there's no threat of Force capping if you use the abilities as I said. If anything, using the Force cap defense is completely innane since no Shadow should ever play anywhere near full Force except at the start of a fight. It's for this exact reason that Vigor is functionally worthless.

The blanket rule is applied simply because *it's true*. There may, on occasion, be a situation that merits using Shadow Strike without Find Weakness, but, in a *vast* majority of the times, it's only useful to use it with Find Weakness. If anyone is confusing people, it's individuals like you that insist that Shadow Strike is useful outside of Find Weakness, citing groundless points and rare occurrences, when the entire point of the blanket rule is to give people a standard by which to operate. If there are exceptions, you don't need to include them because anyone capable of seeing said exception wouldn't need to be told a blanket rule in the first place.

And example of this would be the blanket rule for Kinetic Combat: Don't use Project without Particle Acceleration. There is very little reason to use Project as a Kinetic outside of Particle Acceleration so I'm not going to tell people that there are *some* exceptions and then expect them to remember them when they need to be told that Project is inefficient and terrible without the proc in question. Personally, I do, on occasion, use it outside of PA explicitly to save Harnessed Shadows stacks when I go through a PA proc dry spell. This is an exception. Never using Project outside of PA is the rule. They are not incompatible.
Here's a reason to use it without find weakness; mezz, you only have one hit before it breaks so it should do as much damage as possible, and you have (some) time to let force regen before attacking.
< The Unnamed > - Tomb of Freedon Nadd
Forkrul - Shadow

Anelyn's Avatar


Anelyn
12.26.2011 , 08:28 AM | #16
The point to not use Maul / Shadow variant without the proc, is that it's damage without the buff up as well as force cost are not worth, you will do more dmg with other abilities for same force cost.

Also from my experience, we don't have operative / smuggler burst out of stealth, we need to get some procs up to do serious dmg, so is better to save force for when they are up and we can unload.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.26.2011 , 08:51 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Forkrul View Post
Here's a reason to use it without find weakness; mezz, you only have one hit before it breaks so it should do as much damage as possible, and you have (some) time to let force regen before attacking.
That's a terrible reason, and I'm not even sure your logic is internally consistent. You're claiming that you should use Shadow Strike to break CC because it deals a lot of damage (with Upheaval and no buffs, Project does roughly the same damage as Shadow Strike for less Force, so your situation doesn't even logically apply) and then claim you'll have time to regen the force before attacking.

If you want to poke holes in what I'm now calling the "Shadow Strike rule", try to actually find something that makes sense and is internally consistent. Try doing some math. Shotgun attempts to poke holes in what has become a very well founded rule are not gonna work.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Amhartan's Avatar


Amhartan
12.26.2011 , 12:05 PM | #18
So this all makes sense to me from a PvE standpoint. But, rotation is also incredibly important in pvp as well. In as muc, I have to agree with Kitru. If we had any way to consistently crit with shadow strike its usefulness might see an increase.

No one is saying it is a bad ability, it just doesn't take priority over Project and force breach.

(what are your guys' pvp a methods with managing your GCD and your rotation?)
Aim to please... Shoot to kill...

DecimaPoiuytr's Avatar


DecimaPoiuytr
12.26.2011 , 01:17 PM | #19
Kitru is correct; generally you want to do the following in PvE with infiltration:

1.) Use Breach every cooldown
2.) Project only with two procs
3.) Shadow Strike only with Find Weakness
4.) Double Strike otherwise
5.) Whirling Blow if 4+ enemies (3+ with the talent)
6.) Use the saber strike with no force

Usually you'll do something like the following:

Breach
Double Strike
Shadow Strike (after proc)
Double Strike
Project

Then you get into a rotation where you do a Saber Strike/2x Double Strike -> Project which is interrupted only for shadow strike projs, breach, and spinning blow for low health enemies.

Your attack priority is something like this:
Whirling Blow (4+ Enemies/AoE Situation)
Spinning Blow (Enemy <30% Health)
Shadow Strike (with Find Weakness)
Breach
Project (with 2xprocs)
Double/Clairvoyant Strike
Saber Strike

This ignores all of the situational abilities of course.

Obviously PvP is more situational and complicated (for instance dumping focus inefficiently on shadow strike to get a quick payout is sometimes more useful here)

Let me know if I made any glaring mistakes.

Rootpane's Avatar


Rootpane
12.26.2011 , 02:22 PM | #20
Until we get Damage Meters, If we ever do? All of this is Hearsay and not Proven at all. No one can truly say, this is, or that is, the best DPS Rotation The numbers are not there to Support anyone's Claim at the Moment. I hope with up coming Patches, There is be some fixes on Adding Damage Meters and A little more UI Customizing. I play a Jedi Shadow still very low Lvl. So DPS, is not a factor Yet, but When it has a place i hope to have some way of Finding out how much Damage/DPS I'm doing with my Rotation and going from there.