I don''t see this information anywhere in any of the stickies. Most of it deals with Shadow tanking which I have no interest in. Just DPS.

 

I have my current rotation , that seems clunky and I run out of Force quite a bit as well but does "OK" dmg.

 

Is there is an article anywhere or other Shadows willing to share their rotation with me?

 

EDIT: JUST realized their a dedicated Shadow section now. Phancy! What will they think of next.

Edited December 22, 2011 by VoXPCS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Jedi Consular > Shadow

 

it is in the forum location above and varies so I recommend Reading on the class a bit.

My rotation: Stealth, Stun, Shadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow StrikeShadow Strike

lol..

 

Post of the week right thurr.

Dont listen to infiltrate. That would be megasuperhorribleawful dps. Shadow strike is a bad dps skill. It should only be used if you have the find weakness buff otherwise the force to damage ratio is horrible.

 

A decent rotation for infiltrator spec is:

 

stealth (for force regen buff)

open with either shadow strike or force breach

project

double strike

 

if i have an aoe situation add your aoe knockdown and the channeled rock throw skill.

 

double strike is way better than shadow strike for dps if you dont have the find weakness buff. reapply breach as needed.

A decent rotation for infiltrator spec is:

 

stealth (for force regen buff)

open with either shadow strike or force breach

project

double strike

 

This isn't anything approaching a good rotation for Infiltration. First off, opening with Shadow Strike is simply bad play. When it doesn't have Find Weakness, it's better to just use Double Strike. Similarly, you never want to use Project without its applicable proc (Circling Shadows) for pretty much the exact same reason you don't use Shadow Strike.

 

If you really wanted to go with a fight starting attack string:

 

Stealth>Force Breach>Double Strike>Double Strike>Project

 

After that, you simply continue to keep Force Breach on CD, use Shadow Strike whenever Find Weakness is up, and use Project only after 2 Double Strikes (at 40+, replace Double Strike with Clairvoyant Strike). Saber Strike is, of course, used when you don't have the Force to use whatever your trying to use.

 

You never want to use TK Throw since it takes too long to do too little damage, and you're risking even less efficiency if you get hit and pushbacked during the cast. An Infiltration, the only regular force powers you use are Force Breach and Project.

Um no just no, split into two parts, your opener and your sustained.

 

Sub level 50.

Stealth

 

Opener:

Shadowstrike x2

Breach

Mindcrush

Blackout

Doublestrike x2

Project

Breach

 

 

 

Sustained:

Breach

Doublestrike x2

Mindcrush

Project

Rince and repeat.

 

Key thing about sustained is watch your procs, as a priority get the Shadowstrike in whenever you have Find weaknes.

 

 

PS till they start chaining the numbers this is about the best you can do.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Seratisak

Um no just no, split into two parts, your opener and your sustained.

 

Sub level 50.

Stealth

 

Opener:

Shadowstrike x2

Breach

Mindcrush

Blackout

Doublestrike x2

Project

Breach

 

 

 

Sustained:

Breach

Doublestrike x2

Mindcrush

Project

Rince and repeat.

 

Key thing about sustained is watch your procs, as a priority get the Shadowstrike in whenever you have Find weaknes.

 

 

PS till they start chaining the numbers this is about the best you can do.

 

Very Nice! Thanks for the contribution. I'm glad to see this thread get some useful feedback. There was zero direct DPS Rotation information that was current and/or realistic until now.

 

I'm going to give this a shot and see how it does.

Um no just no, split into two parts, your opener and your sustained.

 

Seriously? What's wrong with you? 2 Shadow Strikes as an opener is going to wipe out almost all of your Force for almost null contribution. As has been said repeatedly, Shadow Strike is terrible without Find Weakness reducing its cost and increasing its damage. By default, it simply costs too much to do too little.

 

Secondly, why are you using Mind Crush? The only spec that has any reason to do so is Balance and that's because it gets to use it for free and the spec lives off of DoTs. Infiltration finds it completely worthless because you're, once again, just better off using multiple Double Strikes (and, eventually Clairvoyant Strikes).

 

You also didn't allow enough time between Force Breaches. With the talent, the CD is reduced to 12 seconds. You only allowed for 6.5 seconds in between.

This isn't anything approaching a good rotation for Infiltration. First off, opening with Shadow Strike is simply bad play. When it doesn't have Find Weakness, it's better to just use Double Strike. Similarly, you never want to use Project without its applicable proc (Circling Shadows) for pretty much the exact same reason you don't use Shadow Strike.

 

If you really wanted to go with a fight starting attack string:

 

Stealth>Force Breach>Double Strike>Double Strike>Project

 

After that, you simply continue to keep Force Breach on CD, use Shadow Strike whenever Find Weakness is up, and use Project only after 2 Double Strikes (at 40+, replace Double Strike with Clairvoyant Strike). Saber Strike is, of course, used when you don't have the Force to use whatever your trying to use.

 

You never want to use TK Throw since it takes too long to do too little damage, and you're risking even less efficiency if you get hit and pushbacked during the cast. An Infiltration, the only regular force powers you use are Force Breach and Project.

 

 

The reason i said Shadow Strike is it hits pretty hard for an opener. When you have the bonus force regen from coming out of stealth I find using SS I still barely use enough force to not be full after a SS/Breach. So to me that isn't a waste. And the burst is pretty high.

 

Also, I wouldn't say it isn't even close to a good "rotation". The only difference in mine and yours is you prioritize double strikes over project. Which is fine. I use project a lot for a stun rather than damage. On an elite mob I agree project is probably a waste.

 

Lastly this information is for lower to mid levels. I haven't hit high levels of play which is true for most people that would be asking advice anyway.

So its a few days later...

 

Im finding top pve dps to be with balance spec.

 

Pvp would be a big yes to infultration.

 

 

 

i dont quite have a balance spec dps rotation yet but im working on one (it feels more proc heavy then infultration.) its alot of rng but with high crit you can chain a crap tone of dps.

This isn't anything approaching a good rotation for Infiltration. First off, opening with Shadow Strike is simply bad play. When it doesn't have Find Weakness, it's better to just use Double Strike. Similarly, you never want to use Project without its applicable proc (Circling Shadows) for pretty much the exact same reason you don't use Shadow Strike.

 

If you really wanted to go with a fight starting attack string:

 

Stealth>Force Breach>Double Strike>Double Strike>Project

 

After that, you simply continue to keep Force Breach on CD, use Shadow Strike whenever Find Weakness is up, and use Project only after 2 Double Strikes (at 40+, replace Double Strike with Clairvoyant Strike). Saber Strike is, of course, used when you don't have the Force to use whatever your trying to use.

 

You never want to use TK Throw since it takes too long to do too little damage, and you're risking even less efficiency if you get hit and pushbacked during the cast. An Infiltration, the only regular force powers you use are Force Breach and Project.

 

I am getting really sick of hearing all the hate against using shadowstrike when find weakness isn't up.

 

Its a force Dump, essentially. Coming right out of stealth using breach, following with a setup for projects and following through seems great on paper, except that most fights you will end with 40-50 force left.

 

Opening with shadowstrike>low slash>Mind Crush>Breach is a lot more damage before an elite even has a chance to hit you, and you end the combo with around 80 force. (although you can only do this once you hit 30). Before this, opening with shadowstrike>breach is perfectly acceptable, as long as you arn't using the ability so much that you become starved of force.

 

The point is that it's useful to stop yourself from force capping, and people who don't use thier head and apply blanket rules to things just serve to confuse people.

 

Also, to the OP, make sure you are using blackout whenever its up as infiltration (After the initial 6 seconds of bonus force have ended).

The point is that it's useful to stop yourself from force capping, and people who don't use thier head and apply blanket rules to things just serve to confuse people.

 

None of the abilities that a Shadow uses provide a net gain in Force so there's no threat of Force capping if you use the abilities as I said. If anything, using the Force cap defense is completely innane since no Shadow should ever play anywhere near full Force except at the start of a fight. It's for this exact reason that Vigor is functionally worthless.

 

The blanket rule is applied simply because *it's true*. There may, on occasion, be a situation that merits using Shadow Strike without Find Weakness, but, in a *vast* majority of the times, it's only useful to use it with Find Weakness. If anyone is confusing people, it's individuals like you that insist that Shadow Strike is useful outside of Find Weakness, citing groundless points and rare occurrences, when the entire point of the blanket rule is to give people a standard by which to operate. If there are exceptions, you don't need to include them because anyone capable of seeing said exception wouldn't need to be told a blanket rule in the first place.

 

And example of this would be the blanket rule for Kinetic Combat: Don't use Project without Particle Acceleration. There is very little reason to use Project as a Kinetic outside of Particle Acceleration so I'm not going to tell people that there are *some* exceptions and then expect them to remember them when they need to be told that Project is inefficient and terrible without the proc in question. Personally, I do, on occasion, use it outside of PA explicitly to save Harnessed Shadows stacks when I go through a PA proc dry spell. This is an exception. Never using Project outside of PA is the rule. They are not incompatible.

Kk no bull, Bal spec is far more dps sub 50 then anything else.

 

my recount told me so fyi

None of the abilities that a Shadow uses provide a net gain in Force so there's no threat of Force capping if you use the abilities as I said. If anything, using the Force cap defense is completely innane since no Shadow should ever play anywhere near full Force except at the start of a fight. It's for this exact reason that Vigor is functionally worthless.

 

The blanket rule is applied simply because *it's true*. There may, on occasion, be a situation that merits using Shadow Strike without Find Weakness, but, in a *vast* majority of the times, it's only useful to use it with Find Weakness. If anyone is confusing people, it's individuals like you that insist that Shadow Strike is useful outside of Find Weakness, citing groundless points and rare occurrences, when the entire point of the blanket rule is to give people a standard by which to operate. If there are exceptions, you don't need to include them because anyone capable of seeing said exception wouldn't need to be told a blanket rule in the first place.

 

And example of this would be the blanket rule for Kinetic Combat: Don't use Project without Particle Acceleration. There is very little reason to use Project as a Kinetic outside of Particle Acceleration so I'm not going to tell people that there are *some* exceptions and then expect them to remember them when they need to be told that Project is inefficient and terrible without the proc in question. Personally, I do, on occasion, use it outside of PA explicitly to save Harnessed Shadows stacks when I go through a PA proc dry spell. This is an exception. Never using Project outside of PA is the rule. They are not incompatible.

 

Here's a reason to use it without find weakness; mezz, you only have one hit before it breaks so it should do as much damage as possible, and you have (some) time to let force regen before attacking.

The point to not use Maul / Shadow variant without the proc, is that it's damage without the buff up as well as force cost are not worth, you will do more dmg with other abilities for same force cost.

 

Also from my experience, we don't have operative / smuggler burst out of stealth, we need to get some procs up to do serious dmg, so is better to save force for when they are up and we can unload.

Here's a reason to use it without find weakness; mezz, you only have one hit before it breaks so it should do as much damage as possible, and you have (some) time to let force regen before attacking.

 

That's a terrible reason, and I'm not even sure your logic is internally consistent. You're claiming that you should use Shadow Strike to break CC because it deals a lot of damage (with Upheaval and no buffs, Project does roughly the same damage as Shadow Strike for less Force, so your situation doesn't even logically apply) and then claim you'll have time to regen the force before attacking.

 

If you want to poke holes in what I'm now calling the "Shadow Strike rule", try to actually find something that makes sense and is internally consistent. Try doing some math. Shotgun attempts to poke holes in what has become a very well founded rule are not gonna work.

So this all makes sense to me from a PvE standpoint. But, rotation is also incredibly important in pvp as well. In as muc, I have to agree with Kitru. If we had any way to consistently crit with shadow strike its usefulness might see an increase.

 

No one is saying it is a bad ability, it just doesn't take priority over Project and force breach.

 

(what are your guys' pvp a methods with managing your GCD and your rotation?)

Kitru is correct; generally you want to do the following in PvE with infiltration:

 

1.) Use Breach every cooldown

2.) Project only with two procs

3.) Shadow Strike only with Find Weakness

4.) Double Strike otherwise

5.) Whirling Blow if 4+ enemies (3+ with the talent)

6.) Use the saber strike with no force

 

Usually you'll do something like the following:

 

Breach

Double Strike

Shadow Strike (after proc)

Double Strike

Project

 

Then you get into a rotation where you do a Saber Strike/2x Double Strike -> Project which is interrupted only for shadow strike projs, breach, and spinning blow for low health enemies.

 

Your attack priority is something like this:

Whirling Blow (4+ Enemies/AoE Situation)

Spinning Blow (Enemy <30% Health)

Shadow Strike (with Find Weakness)

Breach

Project (with 2xprocs)

Double/Clairvoyant Strike

Saber Strike

 

This ignores all of the situational abilities of course.

 

Obviously PvP is more situational and complicated (for instance dumping focus inefficiently on shadow strike to get a quick payout is sometimes more useful here)

 

Let me know if I made any glaring mistakes.

Edited December 26, 2011 by DecimaPoiuytr

Until we get Damage Meters, If we ever do? All of this is Hearsay and not Proven at all. No one can truly say, this is, or that is, the best DPS Rotation The numbers are not there to Support anyone's Claim at the Moment. I hope with up coming Patches, There is be some fixes on Adding Damage Meters and A little more UI Customizing. I play a Jedi Shadow still very low Lvl. So DPS, is not a factor Yet, but When it has a place i hope to have some way of Finding out how much Damage/DPS I'm doing with my Rotation and going from there.

Clairvoyant Strike x 2

Project

 

Force Breach on CD if over 3 stacks

Shadow Strike on proc

Spinning Strike on CD when target is under 30%

 

Doing this until a combat log tells me otherwise!

Here's a reason to use it without find weakness; mezz, you only have one hit before it breaks so it should do as much damage as possible, and you have (some) time to let force regen before attacking.

 

Bad Shadows use SS right off the bat.

 

Good Shadows understand how buffs/procs work and steer clear of SS unless find weakness is up because they know they can do the same amount of damage with other skills for less force.

 

Logic, some people have none.

Clairvoyant Strike x 2

Project

 

Force Breach on CD if over 3 stacks

Shadow Strike on proc

Spinning Strike on CD when target is under 30%

 

Doing this until a combat log tells me otherwise!

 

this is correct

 

when out of stealth.

 

if you are in stealth always open with spining kick so

 

in stealth

spinkick

clairvoyant strike x2

project

force breach

if target is not dead and i'm talking PVP cause this is pvp spec

force stun

tumult

 

personally i never get past force breach cause their dead by then.

 

reason for my rotation.

 

clairvonant strike always needs to be x2 and then force breach because of the 30% extra damge. force breach should only be used after you have done 3 to 4 dmg ablities because of exit stradagy.

 

the more stacks of exit you get the bigger the force breach

 

if you are useing this spec in PVE take out the force stun tumult. for PVE you basic rotation is

 

clairvo x2

project

hopefully backstab has proced

forcebreach cause you should have 3-5 stacks of exit stradagy

reapeat

now pop blackout cause your low on force and repeat.

if target is not dead and i'm talking PVP cause this is pvp spec

force stun

tumult

 

Tumult cannot be used on players. Ergo, your attack string is fundamentally flawed.

 

clairvonant strike always needs to be x2 and then force breach because of the 30% extra damge.

 

Clairvoyant Strike does not buff Force Breach's damage. It only buffs Project's. You got the order correct in your attack string, but you didn't get the reasoning correct.

 

force breach should only be used after you have done 3 to 4 dmg ablities because of exit stradagy.

 

Large amounts of math have been done to demonstrate that Force Breach is best used on CD rather than waiting for Exit Strategy stacks. Force Breach hits exceptionally hard and ignores pretty much every defense players and NPCs have, so the listed damage and real damage are substantially closer in practice than those of all of your other attacks.

 

Similarly, you forgot to mention Shadow Strike which *is* useful in PvP, moreso than it is in PvE simply because the additional armor pen it gets is substantially more useful and you're much more likely to get behind a target that has its attention on you. Spinning Strike (another one you forgot) should also be in there as your #1 attack priority: it's dirt cheap and hits like a *truck*.

 

For Infil, PvP and PvE attack strings should be largely the same: they both focus on heavily frontloaded damage and no fight that isn't a foregone conclusion from the beginning will last longer than the 10 seconds you seem to think fights last, especially if you're fighting a competent player rather than just jumping a random while they're questing.

If people are capping energy by opening with CS, then they aren't pushing enough buttons in the first place.

 

I tried messing around with opening with Shadow Strike. It's fine for 'weak' mobs because you can often times go Shadow Strike then Spinning Strike. For stuff that won't die in 2 hits... Never.

 

And I never cap my energy unless I'm pooling to burn adds.