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Powerr's Jedi Shadow Tanking Guide

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Powerr's Jedi Shadow Tanking Guide

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Powerr
01.24.2012 , 02:10 PM | #21
lemme try to answer these questions since I can't make multi-quoted posts i dont think, ill respond individually to each

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Powerr
01.24.2012 , 02:11 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Kupke View Post
I'm curious how people think this stacks up to 23/0/18. I've tried slow time spec for a while after the patch hit and still prefer having FiB in my spec. Maybe i should try it again though.
That spec is not great, and gets surpassed by my spec in every manner, Utility, damage, and survivability.

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Powerr
01.24.2012 , 02:12 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
Looks good.

I'm currently playing a 23/0/18 spec, still in the process of gearing up and whilst I'm enjoying being a tank, I'm finding the build pretty underwhelming so might well try a full 31/0/10 spec. Instant mind-crush just doesn't proc very often and instant force lift, whilst sometimes nice, is more often fairly useless as most republic players have a tendancy to spam CC even if its not needed so most of the people I actually want to CC have full resolve.

What I'm finding in pvp though is survivability still isn't great. I'm currently running with champ stalker implants, mainhand and headpiece whilst everything else is either crafted tank gear or the daily tank gear. Have around 225 expertise but only 16.5k health, ~25% shield chance/40% absorb.

I still die a lot. Shield virtually never procs, only really works against juggernauts and marauders and my armour doesn't seem to count for anything. So, I'm still really squishy except when deflection and resiliance are up. When both of those are popped then yeh, virtually unkillable for 5-10 seconds, but they are short duration. Do you find the same, or is this simply because I lack gear?
you lack gear, i run all stalker gear with the survivor weapon and offhand and i get 24% absorb. With kinetic ward up, I deflect attacks like I'm a jedi in the movies

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Powerr
01.24.2012 , 02:14 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Baddmoon View Post
Thanks Powerr!

I love this spec. The utility is just awesome playing this way.

A couple questions though:

1. Why the shield as your offhand? Is it purely for the endurance? I was under the impression shields are broke for PvP (except for white damage). I find myself using a focus and ignoring KW all together for this reason.

2. Do you have specific key binds for this build? If so, can you please post them?


Thanks man!
1. I use the shield to get some form of shield absorbtion, I'm not a believer it is broken because the more I put on, the more beastlier I block, Maybe I can put together a short vid of full tank gear and you can watch me go around deflecting every single attack it seems.

2. I'm not allowed to talk about macros on the forums I'm sure

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Powerr
01.24.2012 , 02:17 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by oddmyth View Post
It's so you can watch CD's in the bottom bar.

You don't need to see the abilities that are GCD or so close to GCD bound that its irrelevant to watch..

Many of us have been doing this for years. Hell I'd love to be able to play with just one bar visible.
thanks for explaining my thoughts. for optimal play, you should set it up like I have.

Most important cooldowns right there in front of your face, all spammable attacks/buffs/non critical to be looking at skills belong on the side.

I used to play DAoC with one bar, kinda like you said you would like to

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Powerr
01.24.2012 , 02:19 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Archaar View Post
Thanks for the write up and video power, much appreciated. I've been running with this build and although I miss the raw burst from my old infiltration build, I'm loving the utility and survivability I get from this. I have never played any kind of tank spec in any other game, so this is all new to me, but it's a lot of fun. I've not lost a single 1v1 in either warzones or open world, I've come against 31 point Sins and won quite easily, since it's so easy to predict their rotation I just pop resilience after the second Clairvoyant and totally negate their burst. I am noticing more sins speccing this way though.

Couple of questions though, some already have been asked in this thread.

Harnessed Shadows, is this worth it? Telekinetic Throw just doesn't seem to have synergy with what I'm doing, I just don't like being rooted while channelling this ability. Plus it's duration seems quite short so I sometimes miss 3 stacks of it.

Offhand slot, I've read some people saying that shields are useless in PvP, is this the case? Should we just be using a dps focus?

Kinetic Ward, again this is another ability which people have questioned using, due to the state of shields in PvP, plus I keep forgetting to turn it on lol
Firstly, its duration is incredibly long, like a minute or something crazy I believe. It's also a nice snare so situational when you need to get some range from your target a heal a bit. (good to do this versus melee of course), or when your teams assist train is on a target you can keep the target slowed while you re-cooperate.

Kinetic ward is amazing, have it on always

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Zintair
01.24.2012 , 02:21 PM | #27
First I have a few questions before I break down why I feel this isn't a PvP tanking guide.

1) Why do you waste Battle Readiness? Are you not using Combat Technique? You dont mention what Technique you do use although I didn't watch the vid as the Guide didn't impress me.

2) You don't ever mention Force Slow or Pull...why not?

3) Opening with Spinning Kick is not always a good idea.

Many times your better off popping Resilience to resist CC, then Force Slow to set yourself up and then move to Double Strike for Particle Acceleration. Save Spinning Kick for when you need to interrupt or finish off your opponent at the tail end of their health.


Now onto why this seems more about bursting than tanking
1) I took out 1 you do mention taunting opposing big dps players
2) As I stated before you never mention our single target snare or Force Pull.
3) As a tank your priority is to interrupt and harass the key players on the opposing side, perhaps a brief explanation on how to identify the dangerous classes on opposing sides?
4) A tanks job isn't to always burst down targets. Sometimes interrupting healers for 10 seconds straight with stun/mind snap/spinning kick/force wave is more important that the measly 3-4k burst you can generate after 10 seconds of prep work and 5 seconds of execution.
Joriana Severblade - Jedi Guardian - Defense
Zintair Severblade - Jedi Shadow - Kinetic Combat
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Powerr
01.24.2012 , 02:33 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by zintair View Post
first i have a few questions before i break down why i feel this isn't a pvp tanking guide.

1) why do you waste battle readiness? Are you not using combat technique? You dont mention what technique you do use although i didn't watch the vid as the guide didn't impress me.

why didn't you watch the vid? Battle readiness makes my heals proc more often and because peoples main burst of damage is at the beginning of a fight when they pop cd's/biochem, that gives me the reason?


2) you don't ever mention force slow or pull...why not?

Both are situational at best. It's obvious you would pull people off healers, and snaring with force slow isnt viable because it's on the gcd. You could be putting out much more damage which is more beneficial.

3) opening with spinning kick is not always a good idea.

Many times your better off popping resilience to resist cc, then force slow to set yourself up and then move to double strike for particle acceleration. Save spinning kick for when you need to interrupt or finish off your opponent at the tail end of their health.

Popping resilience should only be used to counter their burst i.e an assassin who just popped biochem and has 2 stacks up ready to burst. Spinning kick gives you enough time to kick him and get a combo with snare in before he's able to fight back. It's the perfect and only opener you need, also helps teammates close distance. My guild melee assist trains, so its needed on the opener, obviously i use it for interrupts when its back up off its short cd


now onto why this seems more about bursting than tanking
1) i took out 1 you do mention taunting opposing big dps players
2) as i stated before you never mention our single target snare or force pull.
3) as a tank your priority is to interrupt and harass the key players on the opposing side, perhaps a brief explanation on how to identify the dangerous classes on opposing sides?
4) a tanks job isn't to always burst down targets. Sometimes interrupting healers for 10 seconds straight with stun/mind snap/spinning kick/force wave is more important that the measly 3-4k burst you can generate after 10 seconds of prep work and 5 seconds of execution.

This is a tank bursting guide, maybe you read it wrong. Tanking in pvp is not like other games, tanky tanky i can't die type gameplay loses games. The team with the most dps and pressure, wins, always. Sometimes not huttball, but thats huttball and its for scrubs


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Zintair
01.24.2012 , 02:57 PM | #29
why didn't you watch the vid? Battle readiness makes my heals proc more often and because peoples main burst of damage is at the beginning of a fight when they pop cd's/biochem, that gives me the reason?

Your telling me you use Battle Readiness for the Proc heals from Comabt Technique and not the burst heal from using? Really?


Both are situational at best. It's obvious you would pull people off healers, and snaring with force slow isnt viable because it's on the gcd. You could be putting out much more damage which is more beneficial.

Fair enough. With the addition of ST I guess the single target Force Slow is only effective on a kiting enemy when ST is down and they are in range. It should be buffed to 30M after 1.1 to make it useful.


Popping resilience should only be used to counter their burst i.e an assassin who just popped biochem and has 2 stacks up ready to burst. Spinning kick gives you enough time to kick him and get a combo with snare in before he's able to fight back. It's the perfect and only opener you need, also helps teammates close distance. My guild melee assist trains, so its needed on the opener, obviously i use it for interrupts when its back up off its short cd


Id rather Save Resilience for Sorcerers and BHs who are smart and CC off the bat. This puts their CC on cooldown and they are now vulnerable to everything in my arsenal to keep them from doing anything. Assassins don't have that many Tech or Force Attacks. Your wasting one of the best cooldowns in the game on a class that won't even really be effected by it.


This is a tank bursting guide, maybe you read it wrong. Tanking in pvp is not like other games, tanky tanky i can't die type gameplay loses games. The team with the most dps and pressure, wins, always. Sometimes not huttball, but thats huttball and its for scrubs


Well I agree with you on Huttball.

This isn't WoW however either (and I saw you played DAOC which gave yah some points in my book :P ). A Shadow is able to burst in this spec whenever they want as long as they have a Power Relic and Stalker gear (something we agree on based on diminishing returns). Burst isn't king however when you can harass and CC to prevent classes from performing their desired roles.

There are different roles a Shadow Tank can play in PvP. Running on the assist melee train is just one. There burst may work best to your advantage but that's hardly all the Shadow can do to aid teamplay. Locking down the Healers or Big DPS is another role. Defending points is another.

BTW why did you report me lol?
Joriana Severblade - Jedi Guardian - Defense
Zintair Severblade - Jedi Shadow - Kinetic Combat
DYNAMITE GUILD

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Stellars
01.24.2012 , 03:22 PM | #30
Just curious why you would take Shadow Sight or Mental Fortitude over more points in Technique Mastery. I would think the extra 6% elemental and internal damage resist would offer more mitigation.

Enjoyed the video!