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[Guide] Assassin Tank Compendium

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
[Guide] Assassin Tank Compendium

Alratan's Avatar


Alratan
12.28.2011 , 10:23 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by theonepanda View Post
The drain from death field is fairly worthless. It does not significantly increase survivability.

Wither is far greater still for aoe survivability, I would say more so than single target boss survivability.
Agreed; will amend this in a moment.

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Also while lacerate is good, for aoe spam, it may be worthwhile to shock at least enough to keep melee crit buff up. I dunno if anyone's modeled this yet, but it is something to consider.
We haven't modeled ES sufficiently, which your post has highlighted the need for quite well.

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Your rotation is a bit too simple.

Firstly, dark ward is off gcd and always available to use. Just remember to use it at 1 stack or 1 second.
Keeping a neatly formatted rotation which is sufficiently complex to accommodate everything is proving a pain, so I am grateful for all feedback on this one. It's precisely why I'm sticking to rotation in this update.

Is Dark Ward's placement a problem for the rotation?

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A lot of assassin tanking is timing your buffs and procs, and Thrash is nowhere on your priority list.

IMO, thrash should be highest priority unless wither/discharge debuffs are not on target.
Mea culpa; this was accidentally removed when copying over from the original.

Without further modeling of ES at present, I think that DF has a higher dpGCD versus two targets.

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Raze should be 2nd when not in danger of force capping.
Well, except in buff-upkeep. You're right, though, this needs more iff statements.

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Afterwards, you should be spamming thrash until you get energize. Then, save energize and pool force by saber striking/discharge until

1. Melee crit buff is about to fall/has fallen and you will saber strike/thrash in the next gcd.
2. You are about to cap force.

This maximizes melee crit usage, which maximizes raze (if you have raze) and does not clip any energize procs.

This is also why introducing force lightning (instead of raze) into the rotation results in very clunky rotation that is easy to force cap or mistime buffs.
And wither, I assume. My concern about delaying Shocks is that doing this will reduce the number of FL uses due to the delayed Shocks. Need more about the opportunity cost of delaying FL compared to ES dropping. In principle you have a point, however, as a delay of Shock for a moment to recover enough force to at least begin another Th->Sh combo.

Yes, FL is always going to be problematic, hence the caveats I have mentioned in the guide.

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Assassinate should be lower than thrash in priority if you do not have the melee crit buff.
Are you sure of that? With 75% higher dpGCD than Thrash and 33% higher dpGCD than a Th->Sh->FL combo, as well as a mere 6s cd, I'm sceptical that delaying Assassinate use for the ES buff is truly worth it. If the cooldown was much longer, I would agree, but it's short enough that the dpGCD from it is simply incredible. If we were interested solely in survivability, on the other hand, then its use is more difficult to place due to wanting to maximise FL use.

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None of those "stats of interest" should be stats of interest for an assassin tank until it is shown that you require accuracy to hold threat, or that you do not need maximum mitigation.

Feel free to use the approximation graphs from sith warrior, or the breakdowns I provided in my compendium. They are up to date with the formulas posted.
That's why threat and survivability stats aren't listed in the same priority, as without more experience of issues either way, codifying them is not worthwhile. The stats are worth listing if just to demonstrate their lack of use - although this could be more clear. I intend to incorporate more survivability data in the near future, but my priority with this update was simply ability priorities, as the old one was proving insufficient.

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EDIT: gear wise, I'm fairly certain stacking endurance is not the way to go.

We already have an overabundance from mod/enhancements for tanking.
Agreed, and even stated as such - but this section was written a little while ago, before how ludicrous it is was completely apparent. I want a little more hands-on feel for the threat before I remove the mention of high endurance gear entirely, however.
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theonepanda's Avatar


theonepanda
12.28.2011 , 10:33 AM | #12
Are you modeling the crit buff and how thrash has 2 chances to crit(for proccing raze at least, this is significant, i am unsure about nonraze benefits), and that thrash has +50% crit damage buff?

Furthermore this will net you more shocks as well (lower damage as you stated yes, did you model chain shock as well though, and its crit?), which benefits lightning specc'd tanks.

As for delaying shock...this doesn't delay shock buildup.

As I stated, as soon as you will thrash again, use the shock beforehand. You lose 0 shocks, but you gain maximum crit buff uptime.

Furthermore as you don't use any cd abilities (besides discharge and wither, which you should keep up on cd - debuff cd, not skill cd), so as long as you don't focus cap this maximizes use of crit, maximizes its uptime, and also does not delay shocks. Shocks only proc off of thrash, as long as you use the last energize before it runs out and before you thrash again, you lose nothing.

EDIT: i'm also inclined to agree that DF is good for 2+ targets.

However...ugh. You cannot queue this ability if you're on the GCD. This means that between lag and the fact it takes 2 clicks to place, and reaction time, it uses at least 2 seconds worth of your time to place. Also its clunky and I hate using it. Maybe I should just go FL and ignore it =X

Alratan's Avatar


Alratan
12.28.2011 , 10:51 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by theonepanda View Post
Are you modeling the crit buff and how thrash has 2 chances to crit (for proccing raze at least, this is significant, i am unsure about nonraze benefits), and that thrash has +50% crit buff?

Furthermore this will net you more shocks as well (lower damage as you stated yes, did you model chain shock as well though, and its crit?), which benefits lightning specc'd tanks.
Pijinz, who worked on most of the modelling thus far, has primarily used a 31/0/10 build at present, although is amending to include other options, which may account for some of the issue - especially with regards to Thrash/ES differences. With regards to two chances to crit, I didn't even notice that in my playtime so far.

Chain Shock is assumed.

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As for delaying shock...this doesn't delay shock buildup.

As I stated, as soon as you will thrash again, use the shock beforehand. You lose 0 shocks, but you gain maximum crit buff uptime.

Furthermore as you don't use any cd abilities (besides discharge and wither, which you should keep up on cd - debuff cd, not skill cd), so as long as you don't focus cap this maximizes use of crit, maximizes its uptime, and also does not delay shocks. Shocks only proc off of thrash, as long as you use the last energize before it runs out and before you thrash again, you lose nothing.
Ah, I understand what you mean now. Yes, debuff cd.

Hmm, food for thought, and a more wordy priority order is again required.

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However...ugh. You cannot queue this ability if you're on the GCD. This means that between lag and the fact it takes 2 clicks to place, and reaction time, it uses at least 2 seconds worth of your time to place. Also its clunky and I hate using it. Maybe I should just go FL and ignore it =X
Oh... that's fun. If I encounter that also, I have a feeling that until that gem is fixed, I may follow suit.
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theonepanda's Avatar


theonepanda
12.28.2011 , 11:03 AM | #14
I actually am not 100% sure how thrash (and saber strike for that matter) crit works.

I know i have seen the second hit crit but not the first (like 300, then 630 in bold).

I have also seen the first hit crit but not the second (like bold 630, then 300). I do not recall seeing both crit.

However, I will mention that if either of the above means "both crit" , the crit damage should be 900 (as thrash has a base 100% crit modifier, and i have some surge, so it should do ~210% damage).

I have also seen 1/3, and 2/3 saber strikes crit (not 3/3 so far, though I think this is more that 3x the crit is unlikely rather than it being unable to crit independently).

So its odd. I haven't tested long enough to see if Raze has a higher chance to proc off these "individual" crits. Mostly because raze lags coming up (sometimes doesn't come up till the next gcd).

Alratan's Avatar


Alratan
12.29.2011 , 10:32 AM | #15
It does seem like they are independent in terms of the crits themselves, but I admit to being unsure how it relates to procs based off crits. We know that Thrash/Lacerate have a chance per use to activate Energize, so I'm curious if (not having tested it) Raze only has a chance to proc off one crit per ability use, or if it genuinely is a chance per individual melee crit.
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Warded_man's Avatar


Warded_man
01.07.2012 , 09:41 PM | #16
I just have a couple questions if you could answer them for me. The basic rotation really confuses me, why isn't thrash higher up and why is Force Lightning before shock on the basic rotation? In the rotation as it is now you don't even have a chance to harness darkness before FL. Next I just wanted some clarification on the defensive stats is the priority still 3:1:0 defenses/absorb/shield then 5:3:1? If that is the case what number should you be looking at for lvl 50 for each of the 3 stats (accuracy first until 10% right?). Lastly you think that willpower over endurance after a point is the way to go? If so what is that point?

Thank you in advance for your help and the guide I really appreciate them both.
Show no mercy. RWAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ellianshia's Avatar


Ellianshia
01.11.2012 , 07:06 PM | #17
One important thing to note. In your important stats, you list strength as useful for an assassin. While strength does indeed help melee attacks, willpower does too, and it increases them AND your force attacks, so it should be a no-brainer of what to stack. Any assassin with strength gear should be shot.

onefang's Avatar


onefang
04.29.2012 , 07:56 AM | #18
23/0/18
Death Field (-50% cost)
Free, instant Crushing Darkness on melee crit
+50% crit damage on Thrash
Instant activation for Whirlwind and 2 second stun on early break

i dont understand how raze can be used in pve tanking as lighting charge must be active
Raze
Melee attacks that strike a target affected by your Lightning Charge's Discharge effect have a 60% chance to finish the cooldown on Crushing Darkness and make your next Crushing Darkness activate instantly and cost 100% less Force. This effect cannot occur more than once every 7.5 seconds.

novakheng's Avatar


novakheng
04.29.2012 , 07:13 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by onefang View Post
23/0/18
Death Field (-50% cost)
Free, instant Crushing Darkness on melee crit
+50% crit damage on Thrash
Instant activation for Whirlwind and 2 second stun on early break

i dont understand how raze can be used in pve tanking as lighting charge must be active
Raze
Melee attacks that strike a target affected by your Lightning Charge's Discharge effect have a 60% chance to finish the cooldown on Crushing Darkness and make your next Crushing Darkness activate instantly and cost 100% less Force. This effect cannot occur more than once every 7.5 seconds.
That's because you bumped a dead thread that was before there was changes to Raze...

Achyuta's Avatar


Achyuta
04.30.2012 , 10:33 AM | #20
Your Consumables section needs to be updated. I have the Rakata Medpac and the description has changed:

Restores 3750 to 4575 health and increases maximum health by 15% for 15 seconds. Only usable once per fight.
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