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Guide: How to build a gunship


MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
01.05.2014 , 09:23 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by verfallen View Post
I actually prefer using rotationnal thruster to barrel roll, since the move actually can outmaneuver scout, something barrel roll doesn't do (you are trying to beat them in their own field).

That build is extremely good if you have good teammates you can rely on, since they can cover your quick escape.

Its also useful when you realize something trying to flank you but still far away to greet them with a slug.


As for priority : dampeners to 3
Slug to armor ignore
Rotationnal or barrel roll to 2
Evasion shield I always forget the name off to 2.

Then master slug, then the shield for double duration or lock disable, then your secondary systems and then finally the lasers you sometime use.

I'll actually with rotationnal thruster be more of an aggressive counter to scouts 1 on 1.

A mastered scout can still kill me, but not easily and not immediately. Chance are I'll get a few hits in, and am better at delaying cap. A new scout has no chance.

But as stated, while some choice are no brainers, others are playstyle and preference.

Interesting thoughts on rotational thrusters. I may give them a shot again. I tried them in my first build and found myself constantly disoriented. Guess I just never put in enough time to get used to them.

One comment about your upgrade priority list: I'd max ions (at least to the aoe tier) before maxing slugs. Crippling groups of enemies seems to be a more useful ability (at least for team/objective purposes) than adding more punch to an already strong slug shot. Obviously they're both important, I'd just suggest getting ion done first.

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Slivovidze's Avatar


Slivovidze
01.05.2014 , 10:18 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by WiseStranger View Post
Nobody can boost forever. And the purpose of boost on a gunship is to keep out of weapon range until your Barrel Roll is off CD or your Distortion Field so you can get more distance or regenerate some engine power while distortion is up. Unless a gunship takes Barrel Roll - they will be a pile of flying debris because they have no way to avoid missiles.
You ever met a skilled pilot with mastered NovaDive (Blackbolt)? Forever is exaggeration, of course. But if you had idea of how long I can boost, you would know that if I find a gunship without support, they can not stay out of my weapons range.

Quote: Originally Posted by WiseStranger View Post
And a gunship with Fortress Shield turns into a little black cloud if opposing team has a gunship that is any good. That 3740 of shield arc (at best) isn't going to save you from two full blasts of Ion Railgun (also you won't have any engine power to run and weapon power to shoot at that point). You will have 40 shield left and 1500 hull which is about one shot of fully charged slug railgun.
Yes, if opposing team has a gunship that is any good. I am commenting on your guide from a NovaDive pilot's point of view. Fortress shield is what worries me more than Disto field. Also, I doubt skilled pilot will get shot 3 times in a row fith fully charged railgun blasts. On the other hand, that 3740 shield will hold for at least 3 seconds against me, even way more if I have my Concentrated fire on CD and am out of Rocket pods.

Quote: Originally Posted by WiseStranger View Post
If it's a scout with blaster overcharge - they are capable of doing very good burst. They will chew through your Fortress Shield in no time (also don't forget shield bypass - that makes total shield capacity less relevant) and when you'll try to hit them they will pop Distortion Field so you can't do anything to them and as soon as you move - your fortress buff is gone. After that you can't do anything once your engine power is low. When you slowdown and you don't have your Barrel Roll up - you will die. Good scouts will never fly through a gunship if they are trying to ambush them. They will force that gunship to move or kill it on the spot. If you're flying to a gunship head on and run through them - that gunship also need to turn 180 at much slower rate than you can do.
Again here, NovaDive has no booster overcharge. No burst laser. No very good burst damage. Fortress shield stops me for longer than Disto field.
I consider myself a good scout, yet once I start blasting fortress shielded one from medium range, even at the slowest speed possible, I quite often don't manage to chew through its whole mass and sometimes I fly through. I never fly to gunship head on. Who the hell goes head on with a gunship? If I screw and fly through, the gunship suddenly has upper hand. They can turn on me and try to shoot me, they can barrel roll to sat/team/spawn, they can try to escape, or they can accept that they are dead and shoot 2 more of my teammates before I turn around to make another sweep.

Quote: Originally Posted by WiseStranger View Post
As a gunship you don't need a bodyguard, all you need is to get to where your team is and let them deal with whoever is on your tail. And if you need a bodyguard 24/7 wherever you fly - you're either a liability to your team OR you're that dangerous that the other team decided to dedicate multiple people to chase you all game, every game. I queue solo most of the time and I don't find my survivability suffers from it.
If your team protects you, I consider them bodyguards even if they aren't in party or voice comm with you. If you manage to stick with competent team mates, you're mostly fine. But once you forget yourself and the mob of your teammates moves a bit away, there opens a window for a player like me.

Though, guess it needs to be said, there aren't many skilled pilot flying mastered NovaDives or Blackbolts. More of them are in Flashfires and you have those covered well.
Just a funny fact, I can outboost upgraded Flashfire with around 20% of my engine power left and Booster recharge ready (I'm quite sure about that as I often run from them - these psychos own me if I don't shoot first).

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
01.05.2014 , 11:54 AM | #23
Fortress shield is nice on paper and nice against some builds, but most mastered ship include massive shield bypass.

The fact you have to stand still with fortress shield makes you very very vulnerable. The move would need to be viable to be immuned to bypass effect.

But your rocket for one have both armor ignore and shield bypass (unless you are a masochist running Thermites), a strike fighter has proton torps, gunships slug deals a good chunk to hull regardless of shield. I actually can oneshot other gunship with bypass and a crit, regardless of the ammount of shield you have.

So a distortion field used right will be the better choice imo.

As for ion...the aoe is nice to ramp up numbers, but nothing can survive two upgraded to armor pen slugs. Regardless of crit and shield so I'd consider getting slug upgraded to its crit damage at the very least more important.

Again, shields are a bit lacking due to numerous upgrades and abilities, so nuking them isn't that vital.


Upgrade your nova dive blaster to nuke shields while spamming rockets that bypass, and fortress shield will go down in a flaming heap.

WiseStranger's Avatar


WiseStranger
01.05.2014 , 01:46 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Slivovidze View Post
You ever met a skilled pilot with mastered NovaDive (Blackbolt)? Forever is exaggeration, of course. But if you had idea of how long I can boost, you would know that if I find a gunship without support, they can not stay out of my weapons range.


Yes, if opposing team has a gunship that is any good. I am commenting on your guide from a NovaDive pilot's point of view. Fortress shield is what worries me more than Disto field. Also, I doubt skilled pilot will get shot 3 times in a row fith fully charged railgun blasts. On the other hand, that 3740 shield will hold for at least 3 seconds against me, even way more if I have my Concentrated fire on CD and am out of Rocket pods.


Again here, NovaDive has no booster overcharge. No burst laser. No very good burst damage. Fortress shield stops me for longer than Disto field.
I consider myself a good scout, yet once I start blasting fortress shielded one from medium range, even at the slowest speed possible, I quite often don't manage to chew through its whole mass and sometimes I fly through. I never fly to gunship head on. Who the hell goes head on with a gunship? If I screw and fly through, the gunship suddenly has upper hand. They can turn on me and try to shoot me, they can barrel roll to sat/team/spawn, they can try to escape, or they can accept that they are dead and shoot 2 more of my teammates before I turn around to make another sweep.


If your team protects you, I consider them bodyguards even if they aren't in party or voice comm with you. If you manage to stick with competent team mates, you're mostly fine. But once you forget yourself and the mob of your teammates moves a bit away, there opens a window for a player like me.

Though, guess it needs to be said, there aren't many skilled pilot flying mastered NovaDives or Blackbolts. More of them are in Flashfires and you have those covered well.
Just a funny fact, I can outboost upgraded Flashfire with around 20% of my engine power left and Booster recharge ready (I'm quite sure about that as I often run from them - these psychos own me if I don't shoot first).
There is a big fundamental difference between your view and what I've described in the guide. You're trying to suggest what will be good or better against a NovaDive scout while leaving that gunship to be slaughtered by any other ship in the game. I've killed plenty of gunships with fortress shield and rotational thrusters because after first fully charged Ion, they have no engine power to run away and a debuff that prevents them from regenerating it for 6 seconds. And it's not that difficult to give them another blast of Ion refreshing their helpless state. And after that it's just a matter of time before they die.
Any other ship that ambushed a gunship with fortress shield and rotational thrusters has an upper hand as well as the effective range on gunship's primary weapons is 4000 while other ships have it at 4001+ So you won't even be hit. Unless the gunship crits you with fully charged Slug Railgun + Bypass, they will need 2 perfect shots to kill you (which requires at least 7.2 seconds). If you can't kill them or make them run in that time while they're sitting still - you should not have ambushed them in the first place. (and if you have distortion field with extra 3 seconds - it's 6 seconds of that gunship not being able to do anything to you)
Ultimately what I'm getting at (as I also have a decently leveled NovaDive) if your ship is not cut to hunt gunships - don't hunt them. It's the same as if gunship is not cut for a dogfight - they shouldn't dogfight. On my NovaDive I concentrate on dropping beacons near satellites and move on to another satellite that is being contested or started loosing turrets all of a sudden. I decided for myself that my job is to capture satellites and prevent them from being taken. If I manage to do damage while doing that and kill something - good, but I leave hunting gunships to other gunships and flashfires.

About bodyguards and being left in the open... it comes down to your situational awareness. If you don't have it - you bodyguards won't help you. When I run with a group - we usually don't need to use voice chat, and I don't stick to them like glue. I just have general idea where they are so I can kite to them, or I will kite to a satellite with turrets and give my pursuer a choice to keep trying to get me and be shot by turrets or shoot turrets and give me time to recover. That's not something I'd call having a bodyguard, because nobody babysits me all game. I run solo a lot as well and I'm not hindered that much by not having 3 carefully selected pilots with me.

Quote: Originally Posted by verfallen View Post
Fortress shield is nice on paper and nice against some builds, but most mastered ship include massive shield bypass.

The fact you have to stand still with fortress shield makes you very very vulnerable. The move would need to be viable to be immuned to bypass effect.

But your rocket for one have both armor ignore and shield bypass (unless you are a masochist running Thermites), a strike fighter has proton torps, gunships slug deals a good chunk to hull regardless of shield. I actually can oneshot other gunship with bypass and a crit, regardless of the ammount of shield you have.

So a distortion field used right will be the better choice imo.

As for ion...the aoe is nice to ramp up numbers, but nothing can survive two upgraded to armor pen slugs. Regardless of crit and shield so I'd consider getting slug upgraded to its crit damage at the very least more important.

Again, shields are a bit lacking due to numerous upgrades and abilities, so nuking them isn't that vital.


Upgrade your nova dive blaster to nuke shields while spamming rockets that bypass, and fortress shield will go down in a flaming heap.
I agree with you about fortress shield as it's exactly the flaw that I've described that makes it not relevant in building a gunship. But I have to point out that Ion is not for padding your numbers, but for helping your team to fight enemies, because those will have no shields, no engine power to run and no weapon power to shoot. It still takes you on average 2 shots of Slug to kill someone... Why wouldn't you use Ion for the first shot and help your team with 3 other enemies at the same time? But again, I place a support role on my gunship, while you probably like to do direct damage and kills. It's not that big of a deal, but definitely something to consider. If I were to level a gunship from scratch - I would not purchase T5 for Slug until I have T4 or even T5 on Ion because T5 for Slug is essentially RNG and the flat damage boost option won't help you to reduce number of shots you need to kill your target.

Kuciwalker's Avatar


Kuciwalker
01.06.2014 , 09:14 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by verfallen View Post
I actually prefer using rotationnal thruster to barrel roll, since the move actually can outmaneuver scout, something barrel roll doesn't do (you are trying to beat them in their own field).
You can prefer what you want, but it's still wrong.

1. Rotational thruster doesn't break missile lock
2. Rotational thruster doesn't give you the ability to easily and cheaply reposition across the map.
3. You can absolutely beat a scout at its own field if you are the tiniest bit aware of cover and how to use it.

Barrel roll is too good for any other choice to be acceptable.

DEATHICIDE's Avatar


DEATHICIDE
01.13.2014 , 07:34 PM | #26
My 2 cents(From a guy with a near completed GS minus the primary, including the 3rd railgun):

Shields:
*Feedback shield = only useful against a near death target with no shields, opting to use lasers on you when you have enough shields to take it, which = useless.

*Fortress = You move at all and it's gone, and while it is up, it still can't take a pounding, needs a pretty good buff from the devs to become viable against any sort of maxed out weapon, so again = useless

*Distortion = Evade lasers and a missle lock, = clear winner

Sensors:
*Dampening, to prolong your own survival, the rest are really only applicable when used in a specific strategy implemented by a premade, otherwise your team mates are unlikely to gain benefit from your increased range, and if you are the one who is broadcasting enemy IDs to your teammates who can't already see them, believe me, that means your life is about to end.

Engines:
*barrel roll = Evades a missile lock, boosts you forward, and is for sure the "good ol' trusty"

*Converter = You must be drunk if you think this one is a bonus.

*Interdiction = Where is all the love???
People poo-poo this choice but, once maxed out, it boosts your speed, and it decreases the speed of the enemy considerably. So scouts can keep on boosting after you?
Well, pop interdiction when someone/multiple enemies has the sights on you, jet out of sensor range, and yeah, they will have boost left when yours wears off, but by then you will be at a capital ship, or behind friendly lines, and in both cases the enemy will have to locate you again, and get around your new defensive location, giving you ample time to power back up and take your aim.
This thing coupled with high dampening and distortion field = not to be taken lightly when used by a pilot who knows what they are doing.

*hydro spanner = not the greatest in numbers, but consider that you boosted away after taking hits, you are smoking, you are now safe doing what gunships do, camping, you might be able to pop this baby more than once before taking fire again, meaning what would have been an easy no hull left-kill for your second assailant just became no different than dealing with a fresh spawn.

*Primary = Of course you want burst, don't be silly. Don't pretend you are using the primary at anything that is not right up in your face, and only in an emergency at that.

Secondary:

*Ion - I love this thing, it can easily turn the tide of battle for your team if you opt to take multiple shots with it on every enemy around a node, rather than the more greedy one shot then follow up with one of the other guns to get yourself the kill point, as in that time your teammates could have squashed several with your help, but either way, you want the shield/power eater.

*Bolt - good ol' faithful, nothing to be said(oooh a crit chance? WEEEE).

*Plasma - Underrated. Sometimes you want to apply that dot, sometimes your enemies do have great shields, sometimes your team would benefit from a quick love tap dot that lowers evasion, and plasma, like Ion, can turn the tide of a battle for those people willing to spam multiple targets vs go for the straight kill.
Plus the DOT does cause panic and confusion quite often(STOP HACKING THE GAME YOU TOOL! ), and it's damage really is nothing to snicker at.
I've said it before and haven't changed my mind; too many players have tunnel vision on scoring that crit and one shotting a scout.
Well love tap + full charge still = boom my friends, plus those evasion builds just got taken down a peg for the duration of your DOT which again, you can apply from a quick love tap.
Plasma does something the bolt doesn't, it packs team play utility, and it is also more fun if you are into the whole pyro thing.

Other than my contradictions stated above, I agree with the OP on everything else, and I do agree the OP has a perfect build, that is a great way to go if you are debating leveling your GS, my build however is a very viable alternative, the scoreboard doesn't lie, so don't be afraid to mix up a few components.

Gunships are thankfully not one size fits all.
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WiseStranger's Avatar


WiseStranger
01.20.2014 , 12:37 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by DEATHICIDE View Post
My 2 cents(From a guy with a near completed GS minus the primary, including the 3rd railgun):

[snip]

Other than my contradictions stated above, I agree with the OP on everything else, and I do agree the OP has a perfect build, that is a great way to go if you are debating leveling your GS, my build however is a very viable alternative, the scoreboard doesn't lie, so don't be afraid to mix up a few components.

Gunships are thankfully not one size fits all.
I don't see where you contradicted me aside from interdiction drive.
And about this selection... I said it before and will say it again - if you can't remove missile locks - you will die and that slow will not save you (say hi to cluster missiles with 1.3s lock time OR proton torpedoes with 10k range and 100% shield+armor bypass), furthermore - you will run out of engine power in no time and will die. (that 10% cost reduction will not save you and +10% to engine speed while the ability is active is worse than passive 10% speed boost from tier 3 option of barrel roll) Fully upgraded barrel roll costs little to use and is more efficient travel option than boosters, allowing you to slowdown at the end to regenerate your engine power.

I don't assume that the team I will be playing against is made of default scouts piloted people playing GSF for the first time, I assume that my opponents know how to play and have fully upgraded ships. This is a very big difference.

I played way too much on my gunship and have every ship component maxed so I don't just do theorycrafting. I actually tested all of those components.

dancezwithnubz's Avatar


dancezwithnubz
01.20.2014 , 01:00 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Slivovidze View Post
Yes, if opposing team has a gunship that is any good. I am commenting on your guide from a NovaDive pilot's point of view. Fortress shield is what worries me more than Disto field. Also, I doubt skilled pilot will get shot 3 times in a row fith fully charged railgun blasts. On the other hand, that 3740 shield will hold for at least 3 seconds against me, even way more if I have my Concentrated fire on CD and am out of Rocket pods.
i have almost the opposite experience in my blackbolt, possibly because I generally run Bypass as my co-pilot skill.

fortress shield users are toast. pure and simple. once I get to ~1,000m, hit bypass and start unloading on their stationary backsides they're goners. most fortress shield users will try and tank me, putting too much faith in those shields.

distortion field, which I (ab)use myself in my scout is a much, much better option for gunships.

Sadishist's Avatar


Sadishist
01.20.2014 , 02:48 AM | #29
Does anyone know the range of the interdiction drive that will slow enemy neaby? is it 3000m?

renegadeimp's Avatar


renegadeimp
01.20.2014 , 05:38 AM | #30
Interdiction is basically useless for a GS, unless you are desperate. Ive seen nothing for it to outweigh the bonus from barrel roll.

As for the inherent range, i think it was something like 2k.
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