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I get it!


Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.02.2019 , 04:20 PM | #11
To be fair, no ones perfect and you never know when someones going to mess up their DCD rolls etc....Mistakes happen and you saying the tank never guard swapping kinda irks me a bit lol.

RACATW's Avatar


RACATW
09.02.2019 , 08:23 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
pt is a little different, because a lot of time theirkolto is bursted through and it doesn't heal as much. also kolto missile on AP heals I believe up like 30k hp in total. it's not as good as some utility cause you won't really live long enough to notice it, but it will drop another 30k on your dmg taken before death

350k for jugg is because lets suppose you start bolstered. so 135k hp. now add 45k medpac. 175k. now take that down to 40k hp, activate ED. 175k - 40k = 135k. so you get 135k worth of heals here, and you are back to full. so now you have 175k + 135k = 310k. now you have only EP left. so for 15 seconds (I believe?) your hp doubles, then goes back. basicaly any dmg inflicted during this dcd is considered a "heal" because hp consumed during this, half of it is not real, and therefore treated as a heal. for EP to do the remaining 40k of 310k you'de have take somewhere around 80k dmg during EP. this is unrealistic honestly, you'll take more like 40-50k so your left 330-340k. you can take stun breaker heal (bad idea) and it'll buff you 350k but 9/10 (this is why you have to a "good" jugg, you need to either escape combat for a second medpac, or get another ED both of which require you to either escpae tunnel, and/or be good enough that people don't go you first by reputation
Yeah I was going low with the 125k number, to say why it isn't that hard to take that much damage as a jugg (obv though you're limited around that range like you said). Your hp doesn't double with EP, it's just 30% more and random tiny effects for everything but veng which gets 15% extra DR during it. It's 10 seconds for all jugg specs except tank which is 20. Interesting that it counts as a heal, never heard of that, but if that's the case it should still be HP to be eaten up as damage taken right or am I missing something? Also you take damage while getting attacked and healing, which means it usually works out to be a little more for ED which was why I did my math as if it doubles your hp (125k*2). In fact your ED can kinda sputter out halfway through healing you if enough people are bursting 20k + attacks on you eating thru the stacks. Ideally this doesnt happen if you're properly stacking power and crit which make the self heals higher but it still can sadly.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
09.02.2019 , 09:28 PM | #13
EP isnt so much a heal as much as it is recorded dmg taken. I dont think it counts toward heals... it wouldnt surprise however cuz swtor parse is dumb to begin with, considering it start at match start and ends not with death but with match end, also killing blows dont count. I havent been in endgame pvp for about 3 weeks now so I forget if you get a green hp flytext when you acivate EP, thats the only thing swtor parse reconizes as a heal, the green flytext

SushaBrancaleone's Avatar


SushaBrancaleone
09.03.2019 , 01:43 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
I finally get it!

in a dps with tank match, and this other mando is demanding guard. we lose both rounds and mando say, "yall are terrible" to ops and leaves.

I check the dmg taken. he's at 257k. he didn't get guard all game. the jugg dps had it. I didn't have it either. so I compare him to me. I took 345k. now that's not great for me, but the dude only took 257k and he's yelling at the tank. so I msg him on fleet and just say, "I know you don't want to hear this, but as a mando, you need to take at least 350k dmg without guard. a good mando takes 400-450k dmg before he dies without guard or healer. you took 257k. I only took 345k, but...well...you get the idea."

his reply was, "dont tll me how to play my tune id love to duel you." followed by, "duel?" etc.

like, I know I'm medicore, but I also know that there's a certain amount of dmg you should take per class and that directly affects how long you live and so on and so forth. so when I try to reach out as judiciously as possible and be slapped away, it's like...ok. I get it! this is why no one tries to help. it's not jealously guarding a secret. it's not even a lack of time. it's because you're met with rancor and bile.
without saying anything about you, however this is one of 2 scenarios usually and frankly the less frequent and less clarifying of the situation.
Namely in your case the 'player that needs schooling' was 'trying to school'. Normally its the hater in my experience that will go to the trouble of whispering people with tips - usually the solo ranked player that just lost 400 ELO while being matched with immensly lower ranked team mates (due to the low population deficiencies) keep in mind hes not in the best of moods usually when he approaches u with tips.
The fact that you have so "candidly" decided to do some ToK does in now way mean the other player has the time or interest to 'stay a while and listen'... Nor that that player has a sufficient interest in pvp to take it that far.. whatever be the reasons you must see that imposing your views on someone elses game is in no way polite or friendly?

tbh the distinction between unranked and ranked is the problem at this point. all Arenas should count towards ELO and wzs be part of the same GF but not give ELO, or something down those lines. That way not only will people stop filtering access to PVP but the GF will have consistent numbers on toons to play with when evaluating palyers (cos all matches would count towards assigning your elo/rating - and thus match u against equal players)

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
09.03.2019 , 08:44 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by SushaBrancaleone View Post
The fact that you have so "candidly" decided to do some ToK does in now way mean the other player has the time or interest to 'stay a while and listen'... Nor that that player has a sufficient interest in pvp to take it that far.. whatever be the reasons you must see that imposing your views on someone elses game is in no way polite or friendly? )
lmao. "imposing my views."
Krack

SushaBrancaleone's Avatar


SushaBrancaleone
09.03.2019 , 08:56 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
lmao. "imposing my views."
errrr "dont tll me how to play my tune id love to duel you." followed by, "duel?" etc.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
09.03.2019 , 09:08 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by SushaBrancaleone View Post
The fact that you have so "candidly" decided to do some ToK does in now way mean the other player has the time or interest to 'stay a while and listen'... Nor that that player has a sufficient interest in pvp to take it that far.. whatever be the reasons you must see that imposing your views on someone elses game is in no way polite or friendly?
They better have sufficient interest in improving at pvp if they're playing ranked.

Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
lmao. "imposing my views."
lol exactly. We are constantly told to teach people, but then when we try it's "imposing our views" apparently.

Quote: Originally Posted by SushaBrancaleone View Post
errrr "dont tll me how to play my tune id love to duel you." followed by, "duel?" etc.
What? If someone is playing demonstrably poorly and is getting killed far faster than they should be, they are playing badly. There are subtle style differences that can work in ranked, but there are also clearly wrong ways to play. You might think it's a great idea to try kicking the basketball into the hoop, but when an experienced player tells you that you should be shooting with your hands, you best listen rather than saying "fight me."

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
09.03.2019 , 09:17 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
You might think it's a great idea to try kicking the basketball into the hoop, but when an experienced player tells you that you should be shooting with your hands, you best listen rather than saying "fight me."
But I'm going for my 1000-kicked-basketball achievement, so don't tell me how to play! (Not sure that's really tongue-in-cheek... sadly. )

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
09.03.2019 , 09:19 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
But I'm going for my 1000-kicked-basketball achievement, so don't tell me how to play! (Not sure that's really tongue-in-cheek... sadly. )
lol well, thankfully there are no ranked achievements.

SushaBrancaleone's Avatar


SushaBrancaleone
09.03.2019 , 09:55 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
They better have sufficient interest in improving at pvp if they're playing ranked.

What? If someone is playing demonstrably poorly and is getting killed far faster than they should be, they are playing badly. ..."
my point is that denying access to someone cos they are not 'good' is not the way to go about it.
I dont want to hyperbole, but surely you see that 1 some may have impediments to their efficiency, others may just not be good...
My point is in a 4v4, and no draws at the end of the day 4 players get the pointy end of the stick no matter what. its unfair to expect the 'unskilled or inexperienced or whatever, to exclude himself.

- What I mean is
usually pvp rating systems which are based on the chess world matching rating SHOULD assign players within brackets. When this isn't possible it goes for the next best thing. If population is very low, the 'next best thing' becomes, 'whatever is available'

Now, would you agree with me if i told you that 30 mins PVP VIDEO GUIDE for a specific class is probably NOT sufficient time to cover everything and that to even keep it within 30 mins youd have to cram in a lot of info and renounce any idle talk...

Usually that amount of experience takes a lot of time to acquire, some things require practice aside from the knowledge. Take a sage, while easy to use the amount of options available are many and knowing about them is one thing being able to remember them ALL in a match is another.

Now about being asked to teach, (and tbh im not sure i agree but..) how do expect the above information (AND A LOT MORE OF IT) to be transferred in a conversation that is most probably spawned off a lost pvp match and the salt that derives. How such a socialization can go well is only up to godess fortune especially considering how long any such convo might be and considering the mood of both parties entering the convo (possible after having first insulted each other).

I agree with many of your points and would rather discuss those and how they could be solved (for example removing unranked and using wzs to acquire elo data for the system to use when assigning matches would help alleviating problems related to lack of data) than advocate in favor of the frustration that trying to transfer months (or more) of experience (and salt) brings to.