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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?

Calimwulf's Avatar


Calimwulf
03.02.2012 , 02:05 PM | #1011
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
It's an MMO. Nothing is 'critical path'. You can make a character and then hang around at the starting point and RP if you really want. And yes, BW:A can ddo whatever they like withr omance. They can do whatever they like with anything. This isn't a democracy. It's their game. We're just paying guests.

Are you saying people can't disagree with a suggestion they find undesirable?
General game play bug fixes, ability to level, end game content, PvP and crafting are critical path, or seem to be because that is how BW has been setting their priorities. Even game play bugs as associated with companion affection take a back seat to those, which is more than likely why they haven't started working on homosexual romance arcs and flirting enough to talk about it yet.

Obviously, we can disagree. Also obviously, we do on the specifics of the way that BW might implement it going forward.

What has also become very obvious is that for what ever reason, this issue is being used by folks to push a very specific social agenda, which is every bit as distasteful as those who do not want the feature implemented at all for the opposing view points of those same social issues.
"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Elblai's Avatar


Elblai
03.02.2012 , 02:06 PM | #1012
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Hero-sexualism removes that problem. That way we, the players, decide whom we do and don't see as gay, bi or straight, and it means they don't have to add twenty-odd romanceable companions just to keep all bases covered.
I disagree that they'd have to add that many. Only one or two per storyline with a few current rewrites would still cover all the bases.

I favor story over Hero-Sexualism, and for that reason I do hope the devs keep the personality of a character more important than what a player wants their sexuality to be. Doc, for example, keeps talking about all the women he wooed, scandals he's been a part of, and how he looks forward to all the women that fall for him since he's famous. Or saved their lives. That to me claims a very heterosexual personality. I want s/s relationships, but I still want Doc to stay Doc.

That being said, I'm not against Hero-Sexuality. I just think it's a poor decision. Falls in the "Yeah, that's good, but you could have done better" department. And BioWare has proven to me that they do set sexuality better than Hero-Sexuality. Mass Effect and Dragon Age 1 felt a lot more convincing romance-wise than Dragon Age 2, for example.

Quote: Originally Posted by Krayna View Post
Oh heavens knows I would like to see that but I just have to point out one lil area of the forums at what headaches it would cause. Go to the Sith warrior forums and look up Jaessa romance and why only the dark side of her is romancable. If one of the characters is really really fun and limited while another preference is a perceived stick in the mud the rage on that posting will make this look like a match in a rainstorm compared to the firestorm that would be.
I really don't think that forum rage should be a drive for any content. There's a lot of forum rage about why can't female shepard be with Tali, too - there will always be forum rage about any decision made, ever.

A little closer on-topic: I really think they should add a ceremony cutscene for when you do the whole marriage thing with any companion, o/s and s/s.

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Calimwulf's Avatar


Calimwulf
03.02.2012 , 02:09 PM | #1013
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
I'm strongly in favour of hero-sexualism. I agree that the writers have probably got sexualities in mind but the problem with following that is the staggering number of companions they'd need to add to cover all sexuality bases for each class and each faction.

Hero-sexualism removes that problem. That way we, the players, decide whom we do and don't see as gay, bi or straight, and it means they don't have to add twenty-odd romanceable companions just to keep all bases covered.
One of the most disappointing aspects of previous BW implementations of romance arks was how 'shallow' they were. They were absolutely gender neutral, with the NPC not caring one way or another and even the way they address the player character was in gender neutral terms.

I'd rather see much more depth.
"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill."

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
03.02.2012 , 02:09 PM | #1014
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
I'm strongly in favour of hero-sexualism. I agree that the writers have probably got sexualities in mind but the problem with following that is the staggering number of companions they'd need to add to cover all sexuality bases for each class and each faction.

Hero-sexualism removes that problem. That way we, the players, decide whom we do and don't see as gay, bi or straight, and it means they don't have to add twenty-odd romanceable companions just to keep all bases covered.

why do they have to keep all bases covered?

In other Bioware games there are companions that are un-romanceable, some that are bi and some that are purely straight... if you don't like the selection then you just don't do the romance part of the game, thats how all of Bioware games are...

Personally I wouldn't have an issue with a purely hot lesbian companion I couldn't romance as a male toon, it actually adds realism to the RP....

I don't know why people want to keep watering down this game by removing any depth it might of had... It's like the whole companion consequence system being removed, that gutted the whole companion system IMO... all because certain players would QQ if they regretted letting a companion get killed or leave because of faction alignment...

Anyways I doubt you guys will get "Hero Sexuality" given Bioware has not done it in any of their other games.... Sexuality is always based on what the writers create in order to give some depth to that character...
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
03.02.2012 , 02:12 PM | #1015
Quote: Originally Posted by Calimwulf View Post
General game play bug fixes, ability to level, end game content, PvP and crafting are critical path, or seem to be because that is how BW has been setting their priorities. Even game play bugs as associated with companion affection take a back seat to those, which is more than likely why they haven't started working on homosexual romance arcs and flirting enough to talk about it yet.
I agree, that probably is why it hasn't been addressed yet. Which is fine with me, I just wish they'd communicate with us a little.

Quote:
Obviously, we can disagree. Also obviously, we do on the specifics of the way that BW might implement it going forward.
Which is all well and good. People should be able to disagree.

Quote:
What has also become very obvious is that for what ever reason, this issue is being used by folks to push a very specific social agenda, which is every bit as distasteful as those who do not want the feature implemented at all for the opposing view points of those same social issues.
See, that's all speculative, and it's another matter we disagree on. I'm not pushing any agenda myself, I simply want same sex flirts and see no conclusively convincing reason why a toggle should be implemented. Which is all fine and dandy but quite useless as I'm not a person who actually has any say in how the features will be implemented. And the people who do have a say (to whit: the developers) aren't talking to us.

In regards to people who don't want it implemented at all... Well, the feature is coming so I'm afraid it doesn't matter if you want it in or not. Only implementation is really in question.

And in all honesty I agree that people should be able to show support for a toggle. I disagree with it and oppose it but that doesn't mean I don't support your desire to voice your wish for it. What bugs me is that this discussion always devolves into name-calling, assumption and general hostility. That's why I think the pro-toggle thread should have stayed open.
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Krayna's Avatar


Krayna
03.02.2012 , 02:12 PM | #1016
Quote: Originally Posted by Calimwulf View Post
General game play bug fixes, ability to level, end game content, PvP and crafting are critical path, or seem to be because that is how BW has been setting their priorities. Even game play bugs as associated with companion affection take a back seat to those, which is more than likely why they haven't started working on homosexual romance arcs and flirting enough to talk about it yet.

Obviously, we can disagree. Also obviously, we do on the specifics of the way that BW might implement it going forward.

What has also become very obvious is that for what ever reason, this issue is being used by folks to push a very specific social agenda, which is every bit as distasteful as those who do not want the feature implemented at all for the opposing view points of those same social issues.
Okies for starters you have no idea as nor do i if they are or are not currently working on them. For all we know they may be part of 1.2 or they may not happen till after the next expansion. Until someone releases info we don't know, don't pretend you do know.

The only agenda alot of against a toggle do have is to be treated the same. Status quo is there is no filter, no toggle as of now. Why does there need to be a filter once SGRA's are introduced? We are not the one with a social agenda, we just want to be treated the same and to enjoy the game like you do.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
03.02.2012 , 02:14 PM | #1017
Quote: Originally Posted by Calimwulf View Post
One of the most disappointing aspects of previous BW implementations of romance arks was how 'shallow' they were. They were absolutely gender neutral, with the NPC not caring one way or another and even the way they address the player character was in gender neutral terms.

I'd rather see much more depth.
I didn't think too much of the romance arcs in Mass Effect (the original), I admit. Loved the DAO and DA2 implementations of them, though. They seemed quite fleshed out, I didn't find them shallow at all. That they were gender neutral really didn't bother me - though I know it bothered many.
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Xeres_Ajani's Avatar


Xeres_Ajani
03.02.2012 , 02:19 PM | #1018
It's almost time (I hope) for this weeks Q&A report. Here is hoping for a little tidbit. Prolly not given the track record but lets think positive! With ME3 out in a couple days including a possible M/M Shepard now would be the perfect time to let slip some details or even just a notice that it's nearing completion.

emusan's Avatar


emusan
03.02.2012 , 02:22 PM | #1019
Wow, I'm gone a few hours and now there's 10 pages of flames over the toggle, though I think it's died down somewhat now...

In the future, I recommend referring anyone trying to bring it up to the locked thread(here) and the thread on a toggle for all flirt prompts(here). Kindly ask them to read through those and as well as pages 80-100 of this thread and if they feel they still have something *constructive* to add to the discussion to post it then, and only then(again be kind though). If they refuse to listen then just don't respond to them...

These threads are getting mucked up in cyclical arguments that wont end any other way, we don't want them locked.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
03.02.2012 , 02:26 PM | #1020
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
why do they have to keep all bases covered?
So people have equal opportunity to pursue some kind of relationship in-game. Whether they cover those bases by using hero-sexuality or implementing more companions with defined sexualities they still need to keep people satisfied.

Quote:
Personally I wouldn't have an issue with a purely hot lesbian companion I couldn't romance as a male toon, it actually adds realism to the RP....
Okay, and I agree, it'd add more realism to the game. But for every class to have equal chance to pursue a heterosexual and homosexual (and, potentially, bisexual) relationship there needs to be a companion available for each of those options.

Here's the problem with set sexuality. Even if you take bisexuality out you need a heterosexual male, heterosexual female, homosexual male and homosexual female for every class in the game, for both factions. That means four per class. 16 per faction. 32 for the whole game. And that's only romanceable companions. Then there's all the unromanceable ones.

To add to that every time they add romanceable companions to the game they'd either have to pick and choose who gets the gay, who gets the hetero, or they'd need to add another 32 companions to the game.

Set sexuality is more realistic, I agree, but from a development point of view it means far, far more work.

And not just more work, but more money. Voice actors, from what I understand, aren't paid by the hour but by the completed project. With hero-sexuality they can have the same voice actor say a few extra lines. With set sexuality they have to hire all new voice actors and pay them for the projects they do. Realism is great but I'd prefer the company to not go bankrupt trying to cater for it.

Quote:
all because certain players would QQ if they regretted letting a companion get killed or leave because of faction alignment...
I do think we should be able to kill or evict companions, personally. I can think of a few I'd get rid of.

Quote:
Anyways I doubt you guys will get "Hero Sexuality" given Bioware has not done it in any of their other games.... Sexuality is always based on what the writers create in order to give some depth to that character...
Hero-sexuality was one of the primary relationship features of Dragon Age 2, actually. Merrill, for example, doesn't express any kind of sexuality at all until you start flirting with her.
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