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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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Oooh you're both on the Progenitor? What are your character names? I have both Rep and Imp toons. There used to be an LGBT guild on the Progenitor, Scions of Aurora on Rep and Scions of Penumbra on Imp, it was very active for a while ( we started off on Trask Ulgo and then moved to Progenitor in the first round of transfers) but between Secret World and Guild Wars 2 and the lack of any SGRA's most people left, so we eventually disbanded the guild a little over a week ago.
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My main is Rogan't and I've mostly only logged on for Ops with my guild, been levelling in Guild Wars 2, though I should really be working on this week's story prompts (in which Ro-ro-Rochester features heavily).

 

I recently rolled a Knight to experience the story, but I'm terrible at levelling Republic characters because the voice acting just seems so... bland. Monotonous. Boring. Forced.

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It's not really that I imagine I can change their opinion, but I really cannot fathom their reasoning. To me it's obvious why you'd have same-sex content in a game, I put it on par with having the option to play non-whites and women*, it's a matter of allowing choice. People say that it's some sort of "agenda", that it's all politics, but really it's more political to deliberately not allow player choice in a video game. There's a certain amount of airey-fairy-ness if people genuinely believe that the entertainment industry exists in a vacuum from the rest of the world - which is really how it seems some people are, when they call out for not having inclusion in their video games.

 

I'm reminded of something I saw on tumblr: This money has been handled by gay people, if that distresses you, please give the money away.

 

*I really have homophobia so tied up in my brain, I cannot separate it from racism and misogyny. I... really! honestly, I can't... they seem intrinsically linked somehow... you're discriminating against a person for an arbitrary reason... *shrugs*

 

P.S. I am the sexy male Agent in the Vendetta top and white boots :3

 

Never mind so many unpleasant things you can do in the game, SGRs are a special kind of evil! Oh noes! It will be as optional as picking a DS choice but I don't see anyone asking for those to be removed. You have a good point concerning understanding their reasoning. I'd love to know why some of these people think it's fine to have your character torture, steal and murder for a laugh but consider same-sex relationships in the game to be so awful.

 

P.S. I'll wave if I see you. I am The One of Many Alts.

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This is why I tend not to engage people who are like that. It's very unlikely someone who says that sort of thing is going to see your point of view and enter into a meaningful discussion of the issue. They are convinced it's "wrong" and nothing you can say will change that.

 

I try to reply to those making arguments that can seem reasonable and then demonstrating the flaws in the arguments not so much to try to change their minds but to show how their position is unreasonable or predicated on false assumptions. Particularly when the stance they are claiming to hold is "I am not saying I am for or against it either way" while all of their arguments are against, and those arguments are flimsy.

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My main is Rogan't and I've mostly only logged on for Ops with my guild, been levelling in Guild Wars 2, though I should really be working on this week's story prompts (in which Ro-ro-Rochester features heavily).

 

I recently rolled a Knight to experience the story, but I'm terrible at levelling Republic characters because the voice acting just seems so... bland. Monotonous. Boring. Forced.

 

I'll keep an eye out and send you a wave if I see ya :) My characters are Tygra, Elphie, Satoko, Ardenza and Tsuna on the imp side and Boq, Taden, Ardora and Wilykit on the Rep side.

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I try to reply to those making arguments that can seem reasonable and then demonstrating the flaws in the arguments not so much to try to change their minds but to show how their position is unreasonable or predicated on false assumptions. Particularly when the stance they are claiming to hold is "I am not saying I am for or against it either way" while all of their arguments are against, and those arguments are flimsy.

 

I usually try to just enquire as to why exactly they're opposed to the content....but I usually find it hard not to immediately dispute their reasoning since it's often ludicrous. Really need to work on my patience.

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I usually try to just enquire as to why exactly they're opposed to the content....but I usually find it hard not to immediately dispute their reasoning since it's often ludicrous. Really need to work on my patience.

 

I was born grumpy. Perhaps that is a better reason for me to stay out of debates. Currently running around as Eskran, Agent story was so good I made a second one.

Edited by Eleuril
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Sounds like it's time for a new LGBT Guild. I'm also on the EU servers and an Imp.

 

I've only recently started playing swtor. I had access to Early Access but was so angry over the clear choice to be exclusive of LGBT people that I simply refused to play. But the KOTOR games have been my favourite games and I recently played KOTOR2 again after I found the game in a box. Hence my curiosity got the better of me. I'm very displeased to see that my expectations of BW not implementing it (soonTM) have been true. And this forum and many users that have been posting since well before the game had been released I have not seen in this thread at all. That's a real shame.

That said, I like so much about this game. It looks awesome, it works the way I expect BW games to work, and I like the story quite a bit so far (Sith Sorcerer now, in the tombs at Dromund Kaas). As a big Star Wars fan who has most of the EU literature it's been great seeing the stuff I've been reading about come to 3D life. And that's not been a disappointment. But I'm also disappointed. The first day I was already bothered by members in general and group chat talking about tinnies (hear the clear misunderstanding of Clone Wars ROFL). Huge colliflowers these babes seem to have. I'd love to comment on package sizes, but that would no doubt start some flames. And then there are the flirt options, I'm happy I've not seen many, but it's a slap in the face if I see heteronormal flirts up, and know that I'm not likely to see (soonTM) anything I'd respond to. And that bothers me a lot. It makes me feel like turning the game of and starting the Xbox and continue playing games where I am not denyed being my own non heteronormal person.

 

I'll at least be playing another 70 or so days until my subscription ends, but I have to see about later. Thanks for the heads up about the smuggler and trooper class, if I'd started there I probably would have uninstalled the game by now.

 

I'd much appreciate it, BW, if you could be clear about the when, and how of the inclusion. That way I can use this time to prepare myself for when it does happen. And as you've been treating me as a second rate consumer whose preferences don't matter as much as those of the heteronormal (you've clearly made that distinction by not including LGBT characters) male players, I do think it'd be a start of correcting this grave error on your part.

 

Another poster saw this as a Demo mode, that's very similar to how I've been experiencing it. It doesn't feel done. Some features are missing. But I'm exploring it, and can't wait for it to be ready so I can enjoy it's full features as well.

 

And I'm sorry to hear ladies that you can't be an equal evil flirt amongst hetero men. That's awfully sexist.

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Revenge. :cool:

 

I see that the Makeb thread got culled. That's a shame, because while the post I lost did in fact quote a post that was quoting a CAPS LOCK troll, I think I made some sound points with it which would be useful in keeping things on track there. But that's how it goes.

 

/beginrant

I saw your thread on the Community Forum got locked down. What kind of game is EA playing? Seriously, EA needs to start talking, or let BioWare talk about it. One or the other. This is EA up to their old tricks again! SICK AND TIRED OF THEIR GARBAGE!

/endrant

 

Now I feel a bit better. :cool:

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Sounds like it's time for a new LGBT Guild. I'm also on the EU servers and an Imp.

 

I've only recently started playing swtor. I had access to Early Access but was so angry over the clear choice to be exclusive of LGBT people that I simply refused to play. But the KOTOR games have been my favourite games and I recently played KOTOR2 again after I found the game in a box.

 

Good to have you here, Fabiyun, welcome.

 

I'm sure it's possible to mod KOTOR and KOTOR 2 to allow SGRs. I've been playing those two games a lot recently and I have been thinking...

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Good to have you here, Fabiyun, welcome.

 

I'm sure it's possible to mod KOTOR and KOTOR 2 to allow SGRs. I've been playing those two games a lot recently and I have been thinking...

 

Maybe that's why Bioware aren't allowing mods in SWTOR? I know I'd use a third party mod to romance a couple of people...

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sorry to be a little bit off-topic here...but I would like to be in a gay/lesbian guild...and I don't care which server or republic or Empire side...I would even make a new character...so far I am on the German server with characters on both sides...so if anyone will build a new Gay/lesbian guild please let me know, alright??

 

also back to topic...I usually drop by here once a week or so...and I am sad to hear that the mood has changed here about the same-sex thingie...I don't know why BW keeps ignoring us..and I still hope that there will be a same-sex realationsip here..I won't give up hope and also you shouldn't...please fight...

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Good to have you here, Fabiyun, welcome.

 

I'm sure it's possible to mod KOTOR and KOTOR 2 to allow SGRs. I've been playing those two games a lot recently and I have been thinking...

 

Oh I'm sure it's been done. You know in these older games it doesn't even bother me so much. Moreover in KOTOR2 I always think the Miraluka is actually a drag queen. I feel quite comfortable romancing her. But it's 2012, and I've spend hundreds of hours in DA2. And am running the current Game of the Year (I'm sure you know which, the one where we can actually get married, like in RL Europe) for hours as well now. So expect TOR to top what's been done, not to regress. Sure 8bits games are totally retro and so, but really, I wouldn't subscribe to them.

 

I'm on the prog as well, my toon's Kasesri (Sorcerer lvl 18). :)

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sorry to be a little bit off-topic here...but I would like to be in a gay/lesbian guild...and I don't care which server or republic or Empire side...I would even make a new character...so far I am on the German server with characters on both sides...so if anyone will build a new Gay/lesbian guild please let me know, alright??

 

also back to topic...I usually drop by here once a week or so...and I am sad to hear that the mood has changed here about the same-sex thingie...I don't know why BW keeps ignoring us..and I still hope that there will be a same-sex realationsip here..I won't give up hope and also you shouldn't...please fight...

 

D'aww... you make me want to load my rainbow cannons with cupcakes again :3

 

When Free2Play drops next week (I expect it next week) I'll start pestering them again. Perhaps I should make a collection of rainbows and kittens? I *********** love kittens.

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Seriously, if I was a community manager I would have this huge urge to pull a Sam Kinison and start screaming "SAY IT!! SAY IT!!!". Of course I would shortly lose my job, but man it would feel good.

 

Talk to us. We have waited this long, we're not going to go all postal on you. Just give us a few simple answers to a few simple questions. You're not guarding the Queen's Jewels here, it is a bit of info on how SGRA will work. Time to break down that wall of silence.

 

Any news you get wont suffice. This is the sentiment i would take from the thousands of pages of post here. Clearly for some subscribers its an End all Be all issue (its a game, grow up). From a marketing stand point, they wouldnt be stringing along subscribers if they told you exactly what was really going on....

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Oh I'm sure it's been done. You know in these older games it doesn't even bother me so much. Moreover in KOTOR2 I always think the Miraluka is actually a drag queen. I feel quite comfortable romancing her. But it's 2012, and I've spend hundreds of hours in DA2. And am running the current Game of the Year (I'm sure you know which, the one where we can actually get married, like in RL Europe) for hours as well now. So expect TOR to top what's been done, not to regress. Sure 8bits games are totally retro and so, but really, I wouldn't subscribe to them.

 

I'm on the prog as well, my toon's Kasesro (Sorcerer lvl 18). :)

 

I know it's been done for Bastila/female Revan. I'm trying to work out if I can tinker with the save files to allow it for male Revan somehow. Computer literate I am not, so it's a slow process and I couldn't properly mod it myself.

 

We know it's going to be in SWTOR at some point. It's the lack of information that's been driving us all mad. I really do hope it's not going to disappoint when it's implemented.

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/beginrant

I saw your thread on the Community Forum got locked down. What kind of game is EA playing? Seriously, EA needs to start talking, or let BioWare talk about it. One or the other. This is EA up to their old tricks again! SICK AND TIRED OF THEIR GARBAGE!

/endrant

 

Now I feel a bit better. :cool:

 

It got locked? I hadn't seen that yet. Thanks for the heads up.

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sorry to be a little bit off-topic here...but I would like to be in a gay/lesbian guild...and I don't care which server or republic or Empire side...I would even make a new character...so far I am on the German server with characters on both sides...so if anyone will build a new Gay/lesbian guild please let me know, alright??

 

also back to topic...I usually drop by here once a week or so...and I am sad to hear that the mood has changed here about the same-sex thingie...I don't know why BW keeps ignoring us..and I still hope that there will be a same-sex realationsip here..I won't give up hope and also you shouldn't...please fight...

 

You may want to ask about LGBT guilds in this thread on the Check-Ins subforum of Community. The only guild I know of personally is Taint (Imp) and Rough Trade (Rep). Personally, I am in a regular social guild where my orientation has never been an issue, but I think that's more common on RP servers.

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Any news you get wont suffice. This is the sentiment i would take from the thousands of pages of post here. Clearly for some subscribers its an End all Be all issue (its a game, grow up). From a marketing stand point, they wouldnt be stringing along subscribers if they told you exactly what was really going on....

 

They are milking us over this point, particularly when you consider that you can't access these forums if you aren't paying and these forums are pretty much the only way to get in contact with Bioware, although whether that's in a meaningful capacity is up for debate.

 

Any news would be insufficient? I suppose it depends on the news they provide, but acknowledgement would at least be nice. I get the feeling you're referring to individuals like myself, who have been quite vitriolic in the past. That's because I'm jaded against Bioware, not because the issue is so much of a game breaker for me. The game breaker is how Bioware treat their customers and that is not solely reserved for this topic. I don't appreciate their handling on the PTS (or PPS as it should be), how they seem to be so hesitant to admit bugs and faults, how they announced this new improved communication system which lasted all of six weeks, how when we complained about the quality of the Q&A they decided to destroy it completely. Hell, I don't even play PvP, but I can understand the anger and bewilderment at the new resolve system and how world PvP is not supported by the environment set-up itself.

 

No, same-sex content isn't the game breaker for me, but Bioware's attitude could be.

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I think Captain may be referring to the Question of The Day, not the one with Mr. Amatangelo. I wonder if Mr. Amatangelo is available for comment...

 

Oh! I need to read with more care. So he is.

 

And yes, it was.

 

That was the incident (both the highlighting of companion romances when we still have NO IDEA how or who this is going to work out) that put me in such an ugly mood the other day. (Courtney Woods was able to cheer me up a bit by accepting my nomination of Ixum's movie poster thread for the Round-Up. That was as a compromise as she couldn't persuade them to run the skimped male attire thread the week before.)

 

I am feeling a little more even-keeled right now. Not a great deal more happy, mind, but less angry.

 

I do seriously question the intent behind encouraging us to keep asking here. I mean, I could see if they can't say anything, that at least wanting us to know we are free to discuss it could be meant to send an encouraging message.

 

But given that this thread is so out of the way that new players routinely fail to find it and given that it has never in ten months, 7,500+ posts and 500,000+ views gotten an answer, being shunted back here seems, in a word, callous.

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But given that this thread is so out of the way that new players routinely fail to find it and given that it has never in ten months, 7,500+ posts and 500,000+ views gotten an answer, being shunted back here seems, in a word, callous.

 

Like with the Question of the Day, they're likely typing without thinking. Ignorance isn't exactly a defense, but I can't help but take a rather dim view of the Community Team at this point in time.

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Yeah, the QotD was just that, thoughtless.

 

Redirecting us here and encouraging us to keep asking? I don't know. There is a message there, but it's too subtle to read, or too distorted by the frustration and disappointment to hear. I want to give the benefit of the doubt. I think they're good people, I do. But really, in this day and age, it shouldn't have to be an issue at all.

 

There is no good reason why SGRs should not have as many threads as chat bubbles or hood toggles or paid transfers, across the forums. If there are hostile posts, so what? That is why there are policies against discriminatory or abusive speech. We don't need to be wrapped up in tissue paper and put aside in a little box like an antique china doll.

 

And if it is for Community Support's convenience that we are put in a disadvantageous position, well, who's getting paid for this again? Who's paying? Hm?

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I know it's been done for Bastila/female Revan. I'm trying to work out if I can tinker with the save files to allow it for male Revan somehow. Computer literate I am not, so it's a slow process and I couldn't properly mod it myself.

 

We know it's going to be in SWTOR at some point. It's the lack of information that's been driving us all mad. I really do hope it's not going to disappoint when it's implemented.

 

It would really help if they were clear about what we can expect. There's been contradicting information out there, that was often immediately retracted (ie deleted). To me that tells me that they're likely not sure yet on how they'll implement it. Which makes it all the more obvious that we are very low priority, and they'll do something sometime when it's convenient and easy to implement. But untill that time everything's subject to change. And that makes me feel like I'm being treated as a second rate person. Obviously not treated equally. But when pressed on it, they'll suddenly pretend to be waving our banners. Which is a double betrayel, a stab in the back. I was baffled at that post coming in my FB stream about companion romances. And the articles shocked me as well. For a second I thought I had missed it in the game somehow, but then it became obvious the information was simply wrong. Enfuriating how little consideration there is for our community. And of course they're unaware, I know that, they're only heterosexual living their heteronormal lives, they probably never meet lgbt people and they don't have a clue what our lives are like. So I'm upset, but I cool down. It's not anymore inconsiderate than regular encounters in life.

 

But BW do take a clue, this is hitting some sore spots here, and we really want to know what is going to happen. Currently we don't experience the game equally, this is hurtful. We're being held on a leash with some soonTM and some snips. But you do like us to keep paying for a game that we are excluded from. So at least have the decency to share what we can expect. It's not just about story, it's unfortunately about more than that. And that is so because you excluded us from the beginning. So you've created this point we're at now. Fix it.

 

What I like to know:

How will SGR be implemented? Will we see new companions? If so, for what classes? Companions now come at different levels, will we be seeing SGR companions at certain level points? At which then? Or will you add SGR for existing companions? If so for which? And will you be changing the levels for those companions? What will happen with NPCs and flirting? If a toon has passed the level for an SGR will it go retroactive?

 

I think these questions can be answered without spoiling any new companions or new stories. So why is it impossible to show some courtesy to a group you've clearly neglected and continue to ignore. I hope we'll be able to leave all this behind us when SGR has finally been implented. I hope most of your playerbase will still be with you at that point, I do, this game would be fantastic if it only had SGR inclusion.

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Hello Ms. Berryman,

 

Just a quick question. After Free2Play drops live (I am expecting next week, as apparently "fall" is US-English for November), can we expect to see more coverage of Makeb? I believe Makeb was slated for release in 2012, and following a six-week release schedule, I've estimated the next content patch to be in the second week of December (around the 11th).

 

And yes, given Mr. Amatengelo's statement that same-sex content will be with Makeb, this is related to the Same Sex Discussions thread. I also propose to change the name of the Same Sex Clarifications? thread to the "Same Sex Romances Discussion Thread", seeing as nothing has been clarified in that thread, nor has there ever been any movement by Bioware to post clarifications in that thread. The name is, therefore, inherently misleading, as it implies that Bioware has intentions of explaining the nuances of same-sex content with their player base.

 

Regards.

 

Eh. *shrugs* What's the worst that's going to happen? Thread's name gets changed?

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