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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
09.11.2014 , 01:56 PM | #7521
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
Fair enough.







I'm not....
Dat thread consolidation...

But ya, last page you said players who want to group with friends from 10-54 should do flashpoints. Sounds like your comments are a little contradictory in places.
I have opinions and stuff

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Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.11.2014 , 02:01 PM | #7522
Did that other thread just get merged? lol....Moderators must have been bored lol.

Ridickilis's Avatar


Ridickilis
09.11.2014 , 02:05 PM | #7523
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
Did that other thread just get merged? lol....Moderators must have been bored lol.
Or padding the mod hits for forum conquest. Each post moved counts as a hit so merging a 40+ page thread on day one of the new conquest sets him/her up nicely.

Vember's Avatar


Vember
09.11.2014 , 02:09 PM | #7524
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
Dat thread consolidation...

But ya, last page you said players who want to group with friends from 10-54 should do flashpoints. Sounds like your comments are a little contradictory in places.
hahaha was a little sarcasm for jammyjams

Jimmajamma's Avatar


Jimmajamma
09.11.2014 , 03:28 PM | #7525
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
Ok, first simple tenant: Don't drive away the majority by catering to the minority. Two things will drive people away from pvp quicker than anything else: imbalanced classes, and premades in pug queues, the two biggest hot topics on every pvp forum of every mmo that's ever had instanced pvp.
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Where do I sign up?

Also, if you have a recommendation for the Steelers - Ravens game tonight I am all ears. I have a feeling B-more will come together despite all of this Ray Rice nonsense and cover the 2.5 at home. Thoughts?
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Vember's Avatar


Vember
09.11.2014 , 03:39 PM | #7526
Quote: Originally Posted by Jimmajamma View Post
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Where do I sign up?

Also, if you have a recommendation for the Steelers - Ravens game tonight I am all ears. I have a feeling B-more will come together despite all of this Ray Rice nonsense and cover the 2.5 at home. Thoughts?
Not a fan of the Steelers and I don't think they're all that good, to be honest. As for Baltimore, Pierce didn't do well last week covering for Ray Rice, and last I heard they weren't sure if he would start or Justin Forsett...either way i'm predicting the Ravens to win.

My team is pure crap this year. Again.

Anyakaschala's Avatar


Anyakaschala
09.11.2014 , 04:19 PM | #7527
Quote: Originally Posted by PloGreen View Post
So what you want is better matchmaking?

Random is random though. If, for instance you remove groups of 4 from the the unranked queue you are leaving yourself at the hands of rng. This won't make the game fairer you would effectively make grouping up with one friend, casual or pvp groups obsolete in unranked pop. I don't see that as particularly healthy for the game at all.

Half a pre is beneficial to the team of pugs they get put with if it has a balanced comp, so there is a big clue to people that complain about premades ruining their experience. Shock/horror teaming up with people - be it another player or several is a good idea in this game. So I would say to those people do it then. But don't complain about other people if you insist on leaving yourselves to the mercy of random matchmaking. That is just so stupid.

The whole game content encourages people to group - it's an mmo. You are meant to do this, 4 man premades are helpful to pugs as much as they can face roll the opposition. It puts matchmaking in the hands of the players if more people actually chose to do it instead of ************ about it on the forums. Regs serve as a casual playground with no penalty for leaving and rejoining. There is no issue, if people can't win a single warzone they are simply awful and there is no amount of queue adjustment bioware can make to make **** people better at the game. That is down to the player and the choices they make.

If people refuse to use the same tools and options EVERYONE in the game can use what can you say to that? That is their choice. These threads are just ridiculous and nothing will ever change simply because they are so redundant and silly.
as a sports guy, and one that frequents open gyms, there have been similar issues at different gyms. In one gym, it's a king of the court, winner stays, loser moves down, for about 6 courts. Another gym likes to count off, stand in a line. Basically, grouping vs random luck of the draw competition.

The issues that come up and arguments for grouping 1) people do want to play with friends and teammates 2) people DO want to win 3) people want to play in a style that's most comfortable for their playstyle 4) since it's a game, it's a ocmpetition, and people who want their game to be competitive, want to play at the highest level where they do compete.

in the count off system 1) people want more balanced teams 2) they don't want anyone to dominate 3) are uncomfortable with their own skill level or are afraid they aren't good enough to be picked for the better teams

The fallacy is with a count off or random system is that it doesn't really favor anyone or balanced teams. With a random draw system, who usually wins? the ones with the most healers. It seems common in 8's that one team has 3 healers, and the other team has none. thus, how is that fair? No different than a count of system in basketball and you get 5 centers on one team, and the other team gets 3 point guards, Think of it like your centers are your tanks, shooters, forwards are your melee close range, and your guard as your ranged, and the point guard as the healer. I know not quite accurate, but it's as close as I can come up with.

It just doesn't work with a random draw.

my point is that objective based pvp is a group activity. It's about teamwork, communication, and coordination to play at a decent level. Sure, you can play in random, but the quality of the game play will go down due to lack of consistency of team and the roles of said teams. 8 healers vs 8 tanks would suck, but it is a possibility in a random draw. And you have to ask, how does that actually benefit anyone?

Anyakaschala's Avatar


Anyakaschala
09.11.2014 , 04:22 PM | #7528
Quote: Originally Posted by SammuelSK View Post
What? I mean... props for your ability to spin a negative experiance into a positive... but that's simply not how it works. The net effect is people simply stop queuing up entirely, telling them to suck it up and learn not to suck isn't going to accomplish anything or convince them that they were having fun, getting teabagged those last 10-15 minutes.

That said, great spin..
the 2ndary spin though, is the reverse, you have a premade on your side. You see how things work, how coordinated they are, and you actually learn from it. You see how they move and react to situations and you get better.

Thus, the net effect on that side is positive.

Granted, I'm not in favor of an over-powered premade basically spawn camping and demeaning the other team, but you can't use the negative of going against the premade without reversing it because you are just as often on the side with a premade as against it.

Anyakaschala's Avatar


Anyakaschala
09.11.2014 , 04:29 PM | #7529
Quote: Originally Posted by Volxen View Post
But there are several four-man premade teams on the imp side on the bastion that play regular warzones for several hours a day and basically shred everyone they come up against without much effort. Are you saying that they are queueing for regular warzones because they want really easy matches, and that they wouldn't do 8 vs 8 ranked even if it were an option?
you know this for a fact? Or do you just see a guild tag? Are they all in 162's, or are their different toons, maybe alts switching in and out of the matches to they have 4+ alts to do their weeklies? Or rotating in other guildies in the process. Or is it jsut that it's a pvp guild so that whoever is on, they group and queue?

My guess is that you see a guild tag and you assume it's the same group. Pvp guilds pvp, that's what they made a guild for, that's what they like to do. e

I would also add that, even if it's the same people and the same toons, doesn't mean they don't have the right to queue for regs to finish their dailies and weeklies as well. They should also have the ability to get together and in a sense practice their craft. Just jumping into ranked, if there is even a queue for ranked, can be bad for your ranking.

Anyakaschala's Avatar


Anyakaschala
09.11.2014 , 04:34 PM | #7530
Quote: Originally Posted by SammuelSK View Post
Player have already learned to play the game by the time they hit level 55 PVP, they've done the same matches for the first 54 levels they have played nothing changes mechanic wise. Now though they are facing fully gear players (another flaw, gear has NO place in PVP, it should be skill only) running premades designed to farm easy wins(for conquest points, a huge flaw.. they should be part of ranked only). Hitting a wall does not teach them anything, it just causes them to not bother.

Edit: You are missing the point. You can have fun while winning or losing, they are not mutually exclusive. I am not advocating everyone needs to win. But getting steam rolled match after match, without respite burns people out. They AFK or just quit entirely, this has a negative impact on every subsequent game... why do you think we have so few players queuing up despite upwards of a million(Musco quote) logging in per month?
Completely false. Many players have not learned to pvp by the time they reached 55. You make a massive assumption that is just not true. I can positively say that, because I know I didn't. With my 1st toon, I was completely story focused. I never touched pvp until I hit 55. I had to learn the wz's on the fly.

I will agree that gear is an issue, but that's a topic for another host of threads.

If anything, conquest has brought in tons more people that have never pvp'ed before. That are doing it for 2 reasons, the conquest points for their guild and for the comms for decorations.