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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Kovaos's Avatar


Kovaos
06.10.2013 , 01:44 PM | #3021
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
What's the point of having solo only if no one is in Que?

Matchmaking in the current build NEEDS to be implemented in some form or fashion. At least then there is some balance in team composition. An individual rating system is also desperately needed so the bads/goods can be evenly distributed....
None of that requires cross server....
It would be bush-league to implement a system that increases the queue time. I would love to see a matchmaking system in place, but I doubt we would see matches popping as often. Of course, this is just my speculation.

Hodor.
"my friend said he got a pack of level 50 armor and all i got was level 47 pants."

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
06.10.2013 , 02:11 PM | #3022
Quote: Originally Posted by Kovaos View Post
It would be bush-league to implement a system that increases the queue time. I would love to see a matchmaking system in place, but I doubt we would see matches popping as often. Of course, this is just my speculation.

Hodor.
The easiest way to do matchmaking without significantly impacting queue time is to greatly favor same side faction games. If we have 8 superheroes queue up on Republic side and 8 newbs on the Empire side, it'd be very hard to think of a way to balance this team. But if they're on the same side, the task is trivial. Obviously if you got the right guys from both side you should still use them, but it is way easier to have a balanced team when you can rearrange the ordering of all 16 players.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.10.2013 , 02:19 PM | #3023
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
L2comprehend I guess? I think I summarized the types of people who complain about premades well. There are other types of solo queuers, but they understand what is going on and don't blame everything on premades. Not to mention, I specifically told you how matchmaking would benefit each of these types of players whereas a solo queue would simply split up the population and increase queue times.

None of these were insults, in fact I specifically mentioned players with skill. The fact is, there is a wide range of skill levels that complain about premades, but they are a scapegoat for the real problems that exist. A tank/healer combo doesn't have to be in VOIP and have 500 games played together to be effective if they know what they're doing. So the bad players complain because the other team is too good and the good players complain because the players on their team are bad.

And there are plenty of terrible premades out there just looking to have fun and enjoy the game. Putting them in a queue with good premades certainly doesn't help them. Just like putting solo queuers in a queue with the best solo queuers in the game doesn't help them. The best players are the ones that know how to play as a team, even if they aren't queued as one. They can focus fire, peel, and use the right abilities at the right times in PUGs. That's why one queue with some sort of matchmaking is a far better solution. Let me know when we have 5 million people in one queue and we can have a solo queue, duo queue, trio queue, and every queue you can think of.
I love how you say you aren't insulting, yet, literally, the first word you typed is insulting.

Oh the irony.

Honestly you are better than this, I know you can provide some substance when you actually try. So come on...try getting into this discussion.

Wonder why PVP is in it's current state today? Because people aren't lured into PVP, when they join it's usually with people more familiar with the warzones/classes than they are. Then they run into organized groups that can easily spawn camp them, but the only response to that is "Well...that's part of learning".

You are afraid of queue times which would stay the same, even if you put in matchmaking. Why? Because you aren't luring in new blood. Matchmaking is more of the same, it's a cute label, but it's flawed. You aren't going to bringing in more people with matchmaking alone, since they can still get paired up with lopsided matches. Solo queue on the other hand, will offer a good taste of PVP for the new comer whom can eventually start doing group PVP.

So like I said, be a good boy, and try.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.10.2013 , 02:21 PM | #3024
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
While this game is an MMO, a player can go from 1-55 without grouping with anyone. That, in effect, makes the MMO a single player game for them.

In PvP, if a player does only what they want without regard to their team mates, objectives, or anything else, then it has essentially, became a single player game for them as well. While they might be playing against and with other players it is only their goals and how they want to play that they take into account.

They are concerned with the singular aspect of the game in what they want to do with everything else being secondary.

If their goals are hindered, for whatever reason, in this case premades, they take offense even though there are features within the game that would allow them to overcome this obstacle.

If they do not want to use those features, then that is on them and if a person refuses to use, or discounts, the MMO aspects of a game then that game has, essentially become a single person one.
So you were making things up and now agree that people aren't wanting a single player game.

Gotcha.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
06.10.2013 , 02:42 PM | #3025
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
I love how you say you aren't insulting, yet, literally, the first word you typed is insulting.

Oh the irony.

Honestly you are better than this, I know you can provide some substance when you actually try. So come on...try getting into this discussion.

Wonder why PVP is in it's current state today? Because people aren't lured into PVP, when they join it's usually with people more familiar with the warzones/classes than they are. Then they run into organized groups that can easily spawn camp them, but the only response to that is "Well...that's part of learning".

You are afraid of queue times which would stay the same, even if you put in matchmaking. Why? Because you aren't luring in new blood. Matchmaking is more of the same, it's a cute label, but it's flawed. You aren't going to bringing in more people with matchmaking alone, since they can still get paired up with lopsided matches. Solo queue on the other hand, will offer a good taste of PVP for the new comer whom can eventually start doing group PVP.

So like I said, be a good boy, and try.
I stated that nothing in my previous post was an insult to players. I did not say the same of the post you quoted. Perhaps you misunderstand what I call matchmaking (which would be hidden ratings). Nice to know that you're fine with new players trying PvP only to get facestomped by good players as long as they weren't grouped up beforehand.

You don't even have to be average to stomp bad players in PvP (ask the two 50s that tried to jump my 48 VG on Voss yesterday). I'd like to see new players matched up with bad players at first to see how they do and if they are well above them in skill, continue moving them up until they get to their equilibrium in terms of matching evenly. Having a solo queue still throws you to the dogs.

I can't say it enough. There is no problem with groups mixing with PUGs provided everyone is at the same skill level. Solo queue does not stop bads from playing goods, therefore it does not solve the problem and only reduces that amount of players in each queue. Perhaps you should read what I write rather than focus on the fact that I think premades and PUGs in one queue is fine.
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L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
06.10.2013 , 02:45 PM | #3026
Quote: Originally Posted by Kovaos View Post
It would be bush-league to implement a system that increases the queue time. I would love to see a matchmaking system in place, but I doubt we would see matches popping as often. Of course, this is just my speculation.

Hodor.

I agree, but it is bush-league to even discuss this for endgame PVP in an MMO...

The devs already threw them a bone with bolster, but apparently that was not enough either.
If an individual rating system was introduced, then you would greatly reduce the amount of lopsided matches that take place... And if players encounter a lopsided one, its because there we not enough players to pick from.

Que times would stay about the same because the last resort would be to put together 16 bodies.....
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
06.10.2013 , 02:50 PM | #3027
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
So you were making things up and now agree that people aren't wanting a single player game.

Gotcha.
Not really sure where you got that out of what I posted because no where in it did I say anything even close to that.

Take a look back through out this thread at the responses people give as to why they do not want to form premades of their own to lessen the impact of premades on the other team. Most have phrases similar to "I don't want to do that.", or "Why should I have to do that?".

The simple answer is that they don't have to do it. But, in my opinion, them deciding not to do so removes from them any legitimate argument about them not wanting to face a premade when they could, very easily, form one themselves.

The key word, or letter, in both of those examples is the "I". They are focusing on themselves, the single player aspect, and they want a game where that is all that they want to worry about. Which, honestly, is perfectly fine if they want to do that.

However, in the process of doing so, they are leaving themselves open to the premades that play the game as a group.

iasion's Avatar


iasion
06.10.2013 , 02:50 PM | #3028
Finding myself logging in less and less often, From a couple of games each night down to a couple of games each week. Have taken me about 50 games to reach 8 wins.

I think I'm an average skilled player with average experience, but on my server Imps loose about 80-90% of the games during evenings. Nowadays I often find myself in lvl55 PvP with at least 2-3 persons with valor around 20 which makes me suspect that they are after the looks of the PvP gear. Not that many high valor (or skilled) PvP players queueing anymore. And this is a bad circle, with less and less skilled players and a higher percentage of inexperienced players which even more scares of the experienced ones.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
06.10.2013 , 03:01 PM | #3029
Quote: Originally Posted by iasion View Post
Finding myself logging in less and less often, From a couple of games each night down to a couple of games each week. Have taken me about 50 games to reach 8 wins.

I think I'm an average skilled player with average experience, but on my server Imps loose about 80-90% of the games during evenings. Nowadays I often find myself in lvl55 PvP with at least 2-3 persons with valor around 20 which makes me suspect that they are after the looks of the PvP gear. Not that many high valor (or skilled) PvP players queueing anymore. And this is a bad circle, with less and less skilled players and a higher percentage of inexperienced players which even more scares of the experienced ones.
Maybe the answer to this whole issue is Valor......

They could ship people to lowbie if they don't have the Legacy Valor requirement. That way, at least experience would be a prerequisite for queing @55.

But if they did it I know what the next tear session would be about.....
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
06.10.2013 , 03:06 PM | #3030
Quote: Originally Posted by iasion View Post
Finding myself logging in less and less often, From a couple of games each night down to a couple of games each week. Have taken me about 50 games to reach 8 wins.

I think I'm an average skilled player with average experience, but on my server Imps loose about 80-90% of the games during evenings. Nowadays I often find myself in lvl55 PvP with at least 2-3 persons with valor around 20 which makes me suspect that they are after the looks of the PvP gear. Not that many high valor (or skilled) PvP players queueing anymore. And this is a bad circle, with less and less skilled players and a higher percentage of inexperienced players which even more scares of the experienced ones.
This is why matchmaking is in most competitive games that have an active population. People don't like to play a game where they think they'll lose 90% of the time. It's not even very fun to play a game where you win 90% of the time (though better than losing 90% of the time). I see people always say there aren't enough people for matchmaking, but nobody ever thought that perhaps we don't have enough peopel because there is no matchmaking. I don't know if matchmaking will suddenly bring everyone back, but you sure aren't keeping the guys who are losing 90% of the time without matchmaking.