wow did they hire some new staff, havent seen a post like this in ages

I suppose it is just that only 5% of the players truly use the "report post" button (naturally, none of them actually post "/reported" as it has no additional value), and only 5% of them ever noticed you can write long scrolls in the justification and are not limited to the short line you are given, enabling the usage of "report post" as a backdoor to "report general forum behaviour".

Hopefully, this fine example of swift, non-botted responses will make people think twice before posting anything reportable [such as random rants and naming and shaming, even though neither was exactly the case here].

The button works, and so does BioWare!!

P.S: Can we get the same efficiency with in-game reports now? Several hackers and trolls are on the loose

P.S: Can we get the same efficiency with in-game reports now? Several hackers and trolls are on the loose

Yes please. Put some batteries into the in game droids too. I’ve identified 5 actual hackers in the last week.

Hi All,

 

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Happy Posting,

CommunitySupport

Don't know if anyone as caught on the significant of this.. but I have. Like the quick response in non_in game issues. In the meantime lets all continue dealing with the same grievances.

I main a fury marauder on darth malgus and after reading the 2 nerf mara troll threads, I decided to give Jugg dps a try, mainly the rage spec which is almost like fury.

 

Not having predation and force camo is making things interesting for juggs...

 

 

The damage output is massive. raging burst hitting up to 32k, but don't seem to stay alive long enough to make the most of it ?

 

I am a constructive person and I don't believe in nerfs the same way like this PVP community here does.

 

 

What could they do to make Jugg DPS more viable in PVP ?

 

What buffs does it need ? To me it seems like the self heals aren't 5.0 levels and the reflect saber is a joke. Reflect saber should be increased to 6 seconds or even 8 seconds and in my view the self healing needs a little tweak. Maybe modify some passive to give little heals over time or endure pain to heal me up to 60% and give heal over time for 5 seconds ?

 

Thoughts ?

Veng jug > Rage jug > Skank tank

Veng jug > Rage jug > Skank tank

This I believe is pure opinion. I run either skank or vigi spending on my team's composition. It's not entirely fair to compare a tank to a dps spec; obviously dps does better damage, but tank is substantially more survivable.

This I believe is pure opinion. I run either skank or vigi spending on my team's composition. It's not entirely fair to compare a tank to a dps spec; obviously dps does better damage, but tank is substantially more survivable.

Rage is fine, you just have to realise you are going to die more if you don’t have a healer.

Also I don’t think Rage Juggs are that weak. They may not be in the top 4 for ranked and if they were, people would be asking for them to be nerfed, the same as any class that ever falls into the top 4 preferred classes(specs) for ranked,

The only thing they need IMO is a little more mobility. It seems while every other class had some added, Juggs actually had a small nerf to it in 5.0.

Defence wise, I think they are still really strong. It’s not being able to get out of dodge city or to reduce some focus that seems to be the issue.

It still usually takes more than one person to kill my Rage Jugg in a stand up fight. Even if I’m defending a node, I can usually last long enough against 3 till back up arrives (if they respond at all ). It’s when you have more than 3 that you melt fast, but that’s the way it should be.

Rage is fine, you just have to realise you are going to die more if you don’t have a healer.

 

Also I don’t think Rage Juggs are that weak. They may not be in the top 4 for ranked and if they were, people would be asking for them to be nerfed, the same as any class that ever falls into the top 4 preferred classes(specs) for ranked,

 

The only thing they need IMO is a little more mobility. It seems while every other class had some added, Juggs actually had a small nerf to it in 5.0.

Defence wise, I think they are still really strong. It’s not being able to get out of dodge city or to reduce some focus that seems to be the issue.

It still usually takes more than one person to kill my Rage Jugg in a stand up fight. Even if I’m defending a node, I can usually last long enough against 3 till back up arrives (if they respond at all ). It’s when you have more than 3 that you melt fast, but that’s the way it should be.

I'm a tank main. I go vigi when i dps because it was easy for me to learn.

We do disagree a bit on the defenses of dps juggs, but as I told someone somewhere else, since I'm a tank, I think my toon is just expected to be tanking, so I get focused. Naturally on the chance I'm dps I'm not handling that focus like when I'm a tank. Still though, I spent over 8 months maining a vigi guardian in PvP, so it's not like my opinion on guardians under focus is meaningless either.

I'm a tank main. I go vigi when i dps because it was easy for me to learn.

 

We do disagree a bit on the defenses of dps juggs, but as I told someone somewhere else, since I'm a tank, I think my toon is just expected to be tanking, so I get focused. Naturally on the chance I'm dps I'm not handling that focus like when I'm a tank. Still though, I spent over 8 months maining a vigi guardian in PvP, so it's not like my opinion on guardians under focus is meaningless either.

Under focus, they melt. But all classes should, that’s the idea of focus. I feel Juggs are pretty balanced with actual defence abilities, like mitigating/absorbing damage and also self heal. What I think is missing is away to speed the Juggs up. What I mean by that is they are the slowest moving class in the meta. I don’t mean their actual run speed, but mobility. I often feel like I’m in quick sand on my Jugg, much more than any other class.

I feel Juggs are pretty balanced with actual defence abilities[...]

They need a "go away"-skill to be more balanced in ranked. Not something godly like the merc heal-reflect, but a general higher degree of toughness to better tank all the focus fire (this is all ranked).

And yes it's a pain to lumber through the sniper aoes

They need a "go away"-skill to be more balanced in ranked. Not something godly like the merc heal-reflect, but a general higher degree of toughness to better tank all the focus fire (this is all ranked).

 

And yes it's a pain to lumber through the sniper aoes

This is hardly just an issue in ranked. I stopped maining dps after dying 15 times in one match. I couldn't handle that so I went back to tanking. I only wish the 15 times was am exaggeration.

They need a "go away"-skill to be more balanced in ranked. Not something godly like the merc heal-reflect, but a general higher degree of toughness to better tank all the focus fire (this is all ranked).

 

And yes it's a pain to lumber through the sniper aoes

Oh, I agree there needs to be something that either allows the Jugg to escape massive focus or a go away feature.

Personally I’d prefer an escape that could be tied to mobility. It would mean you would need to evaluate it more and when to use it. Do you use it for mobility or wait in case you need it to negate focus. That way it’s not a simple god button.

This is hardly just an issue in ranked. I stopped maining dps after dying 15 times in one match. I couldn't handle that so I went back to tanking. I only wish the 15 times was am exaggeration.

But that was just one match. Perhaps you just got pitched against a trinity premade. I would understand your frustration if that was the norm. I am certainly not having that type of problem in regs, but then I also seldom play regs these days.

But that was just one match. Perhaps you just got pitched against a trinity premade. I would understand your frustration if that was the norm. I am certainly not having that type of problem in regs, but then I also seldom play regs these days.

That particular nightmare was just one match sure but I also wouldn't play without at least my healer buddy, and it came after a pattern of multiple such ~10 deaths a match matches. I couldn't handle it any more and went back to what I was good at - tanking.

But that was just one match. Perhaps you just got pitched against a trinity premade. I would understand your frustration if that was the norm. I am certainly not having that type of problem in regs, but then I also seldom play regs these days.

It’s because the quality of players in regs are extremely poor. That is the only reason people tolerate jug survival imbalances. If the majority of players had any basic pvp awareness jug dps would be dying 15+ every warzone. They are just so easy to kill and they have no real counter to being tunneled.

From a healer perspective, healing dps jugs is cancer. It’s just as bad as healing a ap pt. Once jugs stacks are gone they are basically dead if they are still being attacked.. Jug dps defensively are just trash and will continue to be so unless they get a real disengage like Force Camo.

This is hardly just an issue in ranked. I stopped maining dps after dying 15 times in one match. I couldn't handle that so I went back to tanking. I only wish the 15 times was am exaggeration.

I tried to restrain myself responding to this, but since you keep bringing it up every single topic, here it is:

Boo hoo.

Do you think you are the only one, ever who died 15 times? Do you think you are the only one that ever got farmed right at spawn? Do you think it makes you special?

We understand, you're used to play pocket tank-healer and as such a little out of touch with reality and truly expect not to die under any circumstance, but, newsflash, it's a normal part of any PvP experience. You could try playing some other DPS classes without a premade and see how they work out. Maybe except for a Merc, you'll want even your DPS Jugg back.

I tried to restrain myself responding to this, but since you keep bringing it up every single topic, here it is:

 

Boo hoo.

 

Do you think you are the only one, ever who died 15 times? Do you think you are the only one that ever got farmed right at spawn? Do you think it makes you special?

 

We understand, you're used to play pocket tank-healer and as such a little out of touch with reality and truly expect not to die under any circumstance, but, newsflash, it's a normal part of any PvP experience. You could try playing some other DPS classes without a premade and see how they work out. Maybe except for a Merc, you'll want even your DPS Jugg back.

This is completely false. On jugg there are very few if any on my server better than me but I can say that on a mara whenever a good premade focuses me in regs I die far less (4 is the most I have ever died) due to my escapes/anti focus etc; whereas on my jugg I take 3-4m damage and die upwards of 5 times by far (usually 8+ if they are voice chat focusing). I play it nearly perfectly during those games and know my DCD's very well. But juggs have no choice but to sit there and eat damage, they have no real anti-focus, the only other class like that is PT.

However, the problem with both jugg and pt is that if you give them a massive buff (like we saw with mercs in 5.0) there is a chance it could get ugly. People already love jugg and pt, even despite their current situation. And ap pt can pull great numbers still and put in a lot of pressure when not focused, along with jugg. So, I'm wary of more FOTM.

I guarentee if you look at your damage taken as a merc/sniper/mara etc (or even stealth like op/sin), your damage taken will be far less than a juggs/pts damage taken if you're vs a good premade and of equal skill as the jugg. Sorcs are often heals so them taking damage as well is a given. The problem is juggs/pts take as much damage as the heals at times.

I tried to restrain myself responding to this, but since you keep bringing it up every single topic, here it is:

 

Boo hoo.

 

Do you think you are the only one, ever who died 15 times? Do you think you are the only one that ever got farmed right at spawn? Do you think it makes you special?

 

We understand, you're used to play pocket tank-healer and as such a little out of touch with reality and truly expect not to die under any circumstance, but, newsflash, it's a normal part of any PvP experience. You could try playing some other DPS classes without a premade and see how they work out. Maybe except for a Merc, you'll want even your DPS Jugg back.

Well I've tried to keep myself from responding too, but here it is.

No I don't think I'm the only person who has this experience. That is in fact why I mention it, because it speaks to a pattern. I've admitted everywhere to not being incredible at dps because it's not what I choose to focus on. I swapped in early 5.0 because I was pissy about dps getting guard.

As for running with a premade, I have friends and I play with them, sorry you have a problem with that. But it also has nothing to do with the topic at hand. By the way, I did solo PvP for a rather long time. There's a reason I don't do it any more. I've done it as all roles, dps (guardian and operative), heals (sage and operative), and tank (all 3).

So rather than insulting each other, let's have a constructive discussion, please.

I've said elsewhere that I agree, the potential for over buffing is high and I'd rather be slightly underwhelming than get defensive buffs galore and have a massive nerf hammer later.

it's a normal part of any PvP experience.

Anyone who thinks this either enjoys losing or is too stupid to fix the problem.

Anyone who thinks this either enjoys losing or is too stupid to fix the problem.

are you really saying people shouldn't die in pvp? hihi

are you really saying people shouldn't die in pvp? hihi

I believe he's saying there is a reasonable amount of times to die in a match but 10+ in multiple is excessive.

are you really saying people shouldn't die in pvp? hihi

What i'm saying is, anyone who dies 15+ times in a warzone and either a) chalks it up to "a normal part of any PvP experience" or b) comes to the forums simply to complain about it (and unsurprisingly, he does both) has bigger problems than class survivability issues.

I believe he's saying there is a reasonable amount of times to die in a match but 10+ in multiple is excessive.

Well there's something we agree in: it is excessive.

Luckily there's no class, not even AP, that suffers from that, unless the match is insanely bad and you get farmed on any class anyway.

Well there's something we agree in: it is excessive.

 

Well, that's the issue. It will be sometimes really excessive on one class (10+ deaths) while others will just die one or two times in this match, even if the team gets farmed. I did pvp against a sniper and a jugg earlier. The jugg, even if he was way better than the sniper, died very quickly, and ended up at a 14 death at the end of the match. The sniper on the other hand, was just plain bad. But we had a much harder time killing him, resulting in only five death on the total match.

While the match was clearly dominated by our team, resulting in some excessive deaths, the different result you obtain in the final scoreboard clearly show that something is still off when it comes to balancing TTK.

That particular nightmare was just one match sure but I also wouldn't play without at least my healer buddy, and it came after a pattern of multiple such ~10 deaths a match matches. I couldn't handle it any more and went back to what I was good at - tanking.

Some times in regs it comes down to how you approach the fight.

If you are use to just leaping into the fray and hoping for the best, then yes, you will definitely die (I see people who are use to playing tanks try this approach on a dps and wonder why they die so much)

If you charge a defended node by yourself, over and over, you will die.

If you are out numbered because your team around you is constantly dead, you will die.

If the enemy team sees you as a massive threat, they will focus and you will die.

If you are defending a node and the enemy keeps pounding it and backup doesn’t arrive fast enough, you will die.

If you put guard on some pug person, you will die, (IMO, dps should never throw a guard on any random, they will get you killed),

If you are defending Void Star doors from spam cappers that have Sorc and Snipers and Mercs on their team, you will die heaps.

These are just a few scenarios that can cause you to die heaps on a Jugg dps. Not all of them are the players fault. Often it’s the team around you as well. But yes, you will last a bit longer as a tank and so you should. I can die 10 times in a match, but still do my job and help the team. Sometimes I’ll even top both dps and medals and most of those deaths are often suicide runs to stop a last minute cap till my team respawned. As long as you win and perform well, then it doesn’t matter if you die 10 times.

But all of those things can happen to other classes too. Even Mara’s for instance, which have no self heal will be just as vulnerable. If you find yourself in any of those above situations, you can easily die 10 times or more.

Something people forget and sometimes don’t even realise is you can use LoS effectively on melee as well as ranged. Especially in close quarter combat areas like Yavins mid node.

I always approach each match and encounter differently. No two are the same (usually), evaluating wether you have a healer, how strong their team is vs yours, what their team composition is compared to yours, will you need to do multiple suicide runs to prevent caps. All of those things can change how you personally play the match.

Sometimes if I know my team is having trouble holding a node and only keep respawning just in time, I will disengage before the last 2 die and hide with in striking distance. Then when they are about to finish a cap, I will jump in to delay a bit longer. Sure I might die before I can get enough back up to heal or get healed, but just delaying that little bit more can make or brake a close match like that.

Another tactic I use to great effect, but can cause me to die a lot, is to help take the pressure off my team by pulling as many enemy away from the fray at the node. If I know the enemy team has non stealth guarding, there is a good chance I can put enough pressure on them to make them panic and draw multiple enemy to that node, which takes pressure off my guys. This tactic is much easier now because people over rotate and also don’t call numbers. So it’s likely 3-4 enemies will come running to back up them up. When that happens, I’m going to die, but it also helps give my team a breather and allows more of my guys to be respawned when the enemy gets back to them.

With dps Juggs, you take the good with the bad. They produce awesome dps burst or great dot damage. But they trade off some survival to do so. People are saying that Mara’s are OP because their survivability is too much (not going to open that can again, so I’ll keave it there), so buffing Juggs in the wrong way would put them in the OP crosshairs too. What ever Bioware were to do, it would need to be extremely subtle and we know Bioware dont do subtle. My concern with asking for a buff is they will over do it. I already feel the defences are strong, so nothing needs buffing there. They could add some mobility or resistance to stuns/mez/roots or an extra escape. But adding anything to damage reduction or self heal would be a massive mistake IMO.

Some times in regs it comes down to how you approach the fight.

And how good the other team is at focusing. Sure I can slaughter suckers all day. That's not the comparison I'm trying to make, however.

If you are use to just leaping into the fray and hoping for the best, then yes, you will definitely die (I see people who are use to playing tanks try this approach on a dps and wonder why they die so much)

While I admit I have a certain degree of an in your face playstyle (I main tanks after all), I quickly learned this would not work. I mained vigi for 8 months and often topped damage boards doing it. I'm hardly incompetent.

If you charge a defended node by yourself, over and over, you will die.

If you are out numbered because your team around you is constantly dead, you will die.

As I said earlier I spent 8 months maining vigi and have been playing PvP for more than 3years. I don't go off soloing nodes and if I'm hanging around a node where my team died it's because they have said the distraction is working. This is also much more effective on my tank, which has some semblance of ability to eat focus. Again, I'm not incompetent.

If the enemy team sees you as a massive threat, they will focus and you will die.

Compared to the 2 sentinels and stealth capper thst all pull more damage than me? Ok sure, the tank main guardian that does reasonable if unimpressive damage is the threat. Hint: sarcasm.

If you are defending a node and the enemy keeps pounding it and backup doesn’t arrive fast enough, you will die.

Um, duh. I always call and since I generally have at least one friend help is guaranteed.

If you put guard on some pug person, you will die, (IMO, dps should never throw a guard on any random, they will get you killed),

Um, I've said this myself literally everywhere on this forum. As a tank my primary reason for wanting guard gone from dps is because they're too squishy to do it and I'm constantly yelling at someone to remove it so I can guard. Anyone that thinks otherwise is an idiot.

If you are defending Void Star doors from spam cappers that have Sorc and Snipers and Mercs on their team, you will die heaps.

Since I'm generally running a premade I can normally LOS around the columns until a friend arrives. Unless of course there's a stealther spam capping the door.

These are just a few scenarios that can cause you to die heaps on a Jugg dps. Not all of them are the players fault. Often it’s the team around you as well. But yes, you will last a bit longer as a tank and so you should. I can die 10 times in a match, but still do my job and help the team. Sometimes I’ll even top both dps and medals and most of those deaths are often suicide runs to stop a last minute cap till my team respawned. As long as you win and perform well, then it doesn’t matter if you die 10 times.

The survivability comparison between tank and dps is almost hilarious. Focused defense actually is a heal to full. I can use enure and expect to live with a healer around. And I have an extra DCD to boot. I do not want dps to have the survivability of a tank obviously not do I feel that's a fair comparison to make. A fairer comparison is to our cousin the sents. Who have no self heals but actual DCDs and an actual avoidance measure. I'd swap focused defense for a sents toolkit on my dps any day.

Also, tank dps comparisons are fundamentally unfair because the role is entirely different. I don't give one crap how much damage I do on a tank. I do care how much I prevent my team members from dying.

But all of those things can happen to other classes too. Even Mara’s for instance, which have no self heal will be just as vulnerable. If you find yourself in any of those above situations, you can easily die 10 times or more.

Something people forget and sometimes don’t even realise is you can use LoS effectively on melee as well as ranged.

You're cute if you think focused defense makes guardians as good as sents. With any sort of focus, no guardian dps is going to get it off more than once. I outlined my response to each scenario above, and repeat I'm not incompetent. In fact I'm one of the harder dps guardians to kill. Which is like saying you're the hardest piece of paper to rip.

Especially in close quarter combat areas like Yavins mid node.

I always approach each match and encounter differently. No two are the same (usually), evaluating wether you have a healer, how strong their team is vs yours, what their team composition is compared to yours, will you need to do multiple suicide runs to prevent caps. All of those things can change how you personally play the match.

I don't talk about matches where either team was rofl stomping. And again, I'm not incompetent in the role. I'm just much better at tanking.

Sometimes if I know my team is having trouble holding a node and only keep respawning just in time, I will disengage before the last 2 die and hide with in striking distance. Then when they are about to finish a cap, I will jump in to delay a bit longer. Sure I might die before I can get enough back up to heal or get healed, but just delaying that little bit more can make or brake a close match like that.

Again I am perfectly capable of basic strategy. Why does my opinion on squishiness insist on making people sense incompetence?

Another tactic I use to great effect, but can cause me to die a lot, is to help take the pressure off my team by pulling as many enemy away from the fray at the node. If I know the enemy team has non stealth guarding, there is a good chance I can put enough pressure on them to make them panic and draw multiple enemy to that node, which takes pressure off my guys. This tactic is much easier now because people over rotate and also don’t call numbers. So it’s likely 3-4 enemies will come running to back up them up. When that happens, I’m going to die, but it also helps give my team a breather and allows more of my guys to be respawned when the enemy gets back to them.

I have done this as well but prefer to leave it to specs that can pull it off far more effectively. Like stealthers, maras, mercs, or snipers.

With dps Juggs, you take the good with the bad. They produce awesome dps burst or great dot damage. But they trade off some survival to do so. People are saying that Mara’s are OP because their survivability is too much (not going to open that can again, so I’ll keave it there), so buffing Juggs in the wrong way would put them in the OP crosshairs too. What ever Bioware were to do, it would need to be extremely subtle and we know Bioware dont do subtle. My concern with asking for a buff is they will over do it. I already feel the defences are strong, so nothing needs buffing there. They could add some mobility or resistance to stuns/mez/roots or an extra escape. But adding anything to damage reduction or self heal would be a massive mistake IMO.

As I said like 2 posts ago, id rather be underwhelming than op and eat a nerf hammer. We have one DR cool down in ward that's shared with sents. Enure which is an absolute joke in PvP to dps (even tanks with no healer around). Focused defense which is a one off 50% heal as a dps. And reflect. Which no one bothers ignoring any more and maras can just laugh at as they kill you. Screw more self heals too. It's already far too talked about for how little it practically does for dps.

To my mind guardian is supposed to be the in your face fighting class. Mara sort of, but guardian is the one that should have better survivability at the expense of some damage. Maras are the glass cannons. They should be top damage but easier to kill right now they do better damage with better survivability. So yes. I have an inferiority complex.

The issue right now is there are basically 2 categories in dps survivability and the gap is large.