*This thread is only about pvp balance issues

Many pvp players are confident that perfect class balance can't exist. If mmo game provides 7-8 classes/specs it is unreal to balance them. It is correct, YET we can achieve something close to perfect balance. And we can compare previous balance with current one

Class balance during 4.x-5.x patches was MUCH better compared with current class balance since during 4.x-5.x most of classes and specs were viable.These patches had their problems: dps pts were too squishy and because of it useless in solo ranked, dot sin/sorc also were too squishy, virulance sniper had low dps, deception sin didn't had enough dps compared to his low defenses. The problem is, current class balance didn't fix these problems (except for deception assassin's dps). Dot sorc/sin and pt are still squishy, virulance still has low dps. What 6.x brought is more problems since now we have 4 specs - deception assassin, concealment operative, dot pt and pt tank which are WAY FAR AHEAD from other specs/classes. No one wants to play a game were few specs are too far from other specs because it is not interesting to fight this - https://imgur.com/yG519Rh or this https://imgur.com/a/CrVGkvD

During 4.x-5.x we had fotm classes (mercs, maras etc) but these classes weren't too far ahead from each other and from lightning sorcs, mm snipers, operatives etc. Well controlled merc could not do much, and heavily rushed marauder had to camouflage early or killed fast with net/stealth scan. Lightning sorc could swap between aoe pressure/mediocore burst while offhealing his team mates (thats why almost all top 96 sorcs/sages in ranked season 11 were lightning sorcs not healers), mm sniper could kite/global people with ambushes, operative could offheal and chase targets.

What we have now is most of classes/specs are too far behind from deception sin,conc. oper, dot pt and pt tank. Why should i play merc,sorc,marauder, sniper, burst pt if i switched to burst scoundrel and do this with old augments - https://imgur.com/XrXqBSa or i can play deception sin with 60k mauls, guarding my team mates, using double vanish to regen, swap tactical items between vanishes, and use my two control abilities to stop my enemies?

Nothing is worse than making new balance worse than previous...all you had to do is buff deception sin's dps A BIT, buff concealment oper's burst A BIT, provide small buff to pts defenses and a small defense buff to dot sorc/sin. Why you had to make few specs dominate so hard that everyone just went to play these 4 specs??? Return back team which made class balance for 4.x-5.x pls....

A Gunship can 1-shot kill a scout ship. The ground game can only do that outside level-sync.

You mean galactic star fighter or what? I don't think we can compare these things... i can only add that balance between tanks is also ruined now since during last patches both pt and jugg tanks were viable depending on situation (hard switching, stacking etc), sin tank required more skill to play but if someone mastered it sin tank were on same lvl as jugg. Now pt tank is way better even without stacking with using set bonus which originally was created for dps specs (the one with 7 stacks and 70k hits). When i return back from work i will send ss's with pts tank doing huge dps both single target and aoe

Please don´t forget the imbalance of healers.

Once you do pvp or operations one healer is performing better than the others.

Please don´t forget the imbalance of healers.

Once you do pvp or operations one healer is performing better than the others.

tbh situation with healers in ranked is unclearn to me. Since 6.x appeared i noticed that all healers became pretty weak because they simply can't keep their team mates alive against huge burst from oper/sin and dot pt....it looks like healers became irrelevant and all depends on dps...during 5.x healer could carry pretty much with huge hps but now some spec's dps is same or almost same as best healer's hps. This requires further investigation and discussion

Please don´t forget the imbalance of healers.

Once you do pvp or operations one healer is performing better than the others.

Iam also confident that weak healers in ranked problem is caused by those dominating specs i mentioned...if these dominating specs get nerfed down to lvl of others specs (maras,mercs,snipers etc) healers might become decent when devs remove this https://imgur.com/ygC174N

Iam also confident that weak healers in ranked problem is caused by those dominating specs i mentioned...if these dominating specs get nerfed down to lvl of others specs (maras,mercs,snipers etc) healers might become decent when devs remove this https://imgur.com/ygC174N

NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE complained about the above mentioned classes being OP on the PTS .

If I remember correctly players were whining about sin set bonuses being useless trash and same for operatives and where asking for nerfs on warrior set bonuses.

Also, you are complaining about class balance for ranked PVP. 5% of the total players bother with ranked and I don't think it's worse the resources to try and fix.

This game and PVP class balance always had a tough relationship and this is something that will never be fxed. You will just have to accept Sin and oper domination for another 3 years.

i give it a 3 of 10

Average as far as trolls posts go but probably wouldn't read again or remember after reading.

Class balance during 4.x-5.x patches was MUCH better compared with current class balance

I wouldn't say class balance was so much better in all of that period. But I agree that the last meta (5.9+) was very balanced and it was more fun than the current one. gotta wait for the season to hit though, maybe things change up a bit.

now we have 4 specs - deception assassin, concealment operative, dot pt and pt tank which are WAY FAR AHEAD from other specs/classes

pretty accurate, don't forget Lightning Sorc though. That's up there as well.

thats why almost all top 96 sorcs/sages in ranked season 11 were lightning sorcs not healers

the main reason for that is the healer matchmaking though. Lightning Sorc was one of the strongest dps classes but if high rated healers wouldn't always get the low rated tanks/dps they would've climbed ahead like they did in S8 and S9.

But to the overall point I agree. This meta isn't particularly fun and interactive, more losers than winners compared to 5.10. But hey, the 5.0 meta was similar unbalanced at start (Sniper, Merc, Mara) and it took them months, you could say years, to balance. But they made it and we ended up with the mentioned pretty balanced 5.9+ meta. I'm optimistic that they achieve this again, it just takes some time.

NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE complained about the above mentioned classes being OP on the PTS .

don't confuse PvE and PvP complaints, also some things were buggy and some things weren't even available on PTS that are now. At least from what I've seen it became clear pretty early how strong Deception Sin was going to be and I'm sure people gave that feedback as a followup.

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don't confuse PvE and PvP complaints, also some things were buggy and some things weren't even available on PTS that are now. At least from what I've seen it became clear pretty early how strong Deception Sin was going to be and I'm sure people gave that feedback as a followup.

I was reading PTS forums on daily basis and no one ever mentioned anything OP about Sins in their respective threads. All you could read is that how garbage their set bonuses were compared to other classes. Look how that turned out to be..

The only place were there were hints was on discord.

Idk man I feel like this is the best balance in years. Not all merc, high... Sins should have the burst juggs still survive as do mercs, and snipers still almost unstunable.

Take away sin burst and the class is left behind again. Sorry your merc can't facetank an entire team now.

OP What the hell have you been smoking? are we even playing the same game.

6.0 has the best balance for PVP in years. Not perfect, but much better diversity.

in 5.X it was ALL Merc and Mara,

Now its Sniper, Merc, Mara, Sorc, Sin, Oper top tier

Pyro PT and Tank PT overpowered? Go look at the ranked leaderboards they are by far the lowest scoring class. And if you ever played ranked you would know how badly they actually perform in that environment.

Sorry your merc can't facetank an entire team now.

This, in a nutshell.

OP What the hell have you been smoking? are we even playing the same game.

 

6.0 has the best balance for PVP in years. Not perfect, but much better diversity.

 

in 5.X it was ALL Merc and Mara,

 

Now its Sniper, Merc, Mara, Sorc, Sin, Oper top tier

 

Pyro PT and Tank PT overpowered? Go look at the ranked leaderboards they are by far the lowest scoring class. And if you ever played ranked you would know how badly they actually perform in that environment.

 

 

 

This, in a nutshell.

It seems ur one of those who plays 4 king specs. I know it feels good when ur spec is way better than others, i also swapped to dec sin and scrapper (i sent ss with 67k biggest hit and 10k dps) but you need to know that games with only few dominating specs are doomed. People are getting bored with them and quiting the game for better diversity. Sorcs, maras, mercs? You kidding me? when 2 sins and one oper on merc were during 5.x they had to stop hitting him in shield because they knew their dps would be garbage due to 20% dr and 10 stack heal, now sins and opers laugh at this shield because 20 dr and 10 stack heal is NOTHING against 9k dps and 67k+ biggest hits. Same about kolto lol. Only reflect remains decent defense against opers/sins. Same sorc, lightning has many dr buffs which saved him from dps at 4.x.-5.x and what now? few sins on sorcs and he is DEAD. Mara does much less dps compared to sins/opers now so his team mates die much faster while marauder can't kill enemy target as fast and oper/sin do so in the end mara is left alone with dead team mates forced to run with his reseted camouflages.

Sniper can't run away from oper/sin because opers now have 6 cd on roll and two stuns, i see even most decent snipers on DM being recked fast by me or other opers/sins. PW for snipers doesn't help them much because sins and opers are mobile classes with good speed bonuses.

You sure you played ranked at 6.x???seems not

Thats how solo ranked fights going now - https://imgur.com/a/qYlXQRy it's strange we had 2 marauders lol. Mostly it's dot pts/sins/opers only. Where are your mercs, sorcs, snipers????

Ranked has totally turned into a stealth show and it' s only pre season... Where are the merrc boys who filled the que for 3 years ?

I find it so funny that a lot of times I am the only non stealth on my team or that I am getting 4 man stealth in the enemy group.

Not against stealth being good, but there are some things that need to be looked at... and rethought. But we should be careful what we wish for .

Give it some time. The combinations are far more complicated than 5.0. And it is a team game. Let this infamous 3 x assin or oper teams play against a good team with healer and tank to see them melt.

While the combinations of specs and classes are more complicated than 5.0 and not much time has passed since the start of 6.0....

Conc oper and sin dps are obviously overpowered. This has become apparent to anyone that has qued any form of pvp. They're strong in solos, they're strong in group ranked, they're strong in duels, they're strong in regs. If these two classes were brought down in pure dps by a small percentage it would make 6.0 much more balanced.

*Lightning sorc could swap between aoe pressure/mediocore burst while offhealing his team mates (thats why almost all top 96 sorcs/sages in ranked season 11 were lightning sorcs not healers),

How do you know they were lightning sorcs and not healers?

Pyro PT and Tank PT overpowered? Go look at the ranked leaderboards they are by far the lowest scoring class.

You're already watching leader boards for not srs preseason? It's all gonna change when the movie comes out Dec 20th.

Ops are op.. look at their burst... not predictable and the rolls...

sins are op ... look at their burst window 3 times...maul maul maul eat sleep repeat

Sorcs are op.. look at their ae burst and facetanking abilty

PTs are op... look at that cleave dmg as Pyro or Tank flamesweeeeeeep ah wait metoer punish

Maras are op... look at their burst and speed and defs...oh man whole package

Snipers are op... look at their burst and rolls and port and instants and ahhhh.

Juggers are op... look at their smash smash smash smash

ahhh wait

Mercs... still op..... shield.. reflect... kolto...shield....rocket out..

its op ness everywhere

the best balance since years...

I suggest we continue this discussion after the nerfs.

Then we´ll see how much the devs think it´s balanced.

My guess is this thursday (pvp seasons starts?) but since holidays are close, it could take at litlle while.

How do you know they were lightning sorcs and not healers?

Most of them from DM and i was playing sr all season and saw them in arenas. I also know about those few sorcs from other servers from my friend who plays on sf. The only guy idk is one of top sages from ss server. Who rushed into top place during last day of ranked season which was suspicious.

Ops are op.. look at their burst... not predictable and the rolls...

sins are op ... look at their burst window 3 times...maul maul maul eat sleep repeat

Sorcs are op.. look at their ae burst and facetanking abilty

PTs are op... look at that cleave dmg as Pyro or Tank flamesweeeeeeep ah wait metoer punish

Maras are op... look at their burst and speed and defs...oh man whole package

Snipers are op... look at their burst and rolls and port and instants and ahhhh.

Juggers are op... look at their smash smash smash smash

ahhh wait

Mercs... still op..... shield.. reflect... kolto...shield....rocket out..

 

its op ness everywhere

 

 

the best balance since years...

No. Nothing is op as sin and oper. When i play on my sin and oper i can kill merc fast with his shield on and with pop of all 10 heal stacks. During 5.x people had to stop damaging merc with that shield on, be more "clever", avoid hitting in shield and what now? 2 sins can easily force merc to remove his shield earlier to get 10 stack heal since 20 % dr is nothing and even then when shield heals merc for 70k those sins doing 70k in 1 second with their mauls. And if merc is hited by 2 sins and oper or 3 sins it is death... you can run, push but you are dead fast by being forced to pop all dcds very fast no matter how skilled merc is. Same about sorcs and snipers. They all die fast when focused, they can't escape eternal rolls, double stuns, leg slashes, force speed with immune to slows and roots.

ON the contrary, sins and opers can't be killed that easy - double vanish double regen, swap to life warden after second vanish, eternal rolls with cc and stun immune + vanish. All these make dec sin and conc oper most difficult targets to kill.

Even in scenario where merc/sorc/mara are not the targets and free casting they can't kill enemy target as fast as sins and opers will kill their target on same free cast since sin and oper have both huge burst and sustained damage (doing 65k biggest hits plus 9-10 k dps while other specs doing 35-55 k biggest hits and only 7-9k dps). Dont forget that sin can guard his focused team mate and use taunts while oper can offheal them.

Overall, every day when i play ranked i can see 5-6 games in a row without mercs, snipers, marauders, sorcs and juggs. Only opers, sins and dot pts. Maybe few maras or sorcs sometimes

No. Nothing is op as sin and oper. When i play on my sin and oper i can kill merc with his shield on and pop of all 10 heal stacks. During 5.x people had to stop damaging merc with that shield on, be more "clever", avoid hitting in shield and what now? 2 sins can easily force merc to remove his shield earlier to get 10 stack heal since 20 % dr is nothing and even then when shield heals merc for 70k those sins taking 70k in 1 second with their mauls. And if merc is hited by 2 sins and oper or 3 sins it is death... you can run, push but you are dead fast by being forced to pop all dcds very fast no matter how skilled merc is. Same about sorcs and snipers. They all die fast when focused, they can't escape eternal rolls, double stuns, leg slashes, force speed with immune to slows and roots.

 

ON the contrary, sins and opers can't be killed that easy - double vanish double regen, swap to life warden after second vanish, eternal rolls with cc and stun immune + vanish. All these make dec sin and conc oper most difficult targets to kill.

 

Even in scenario where merc/sorc/mara are not the targets and free casting they can't kill enemy target faster than sins and opers will kill their target on same free cast since sin and oper have both huge burst and sustained damage (doing 65k biggest hits plus 9-10 k dps while other specs doing 35-55 k biggest hits and only 7-9k dps). Dont forget that sin can guard his focused team mate and use taunts while oper can offheal them.

 

Overall, every day when i play ranked i can see 5-6 games in a row without mercs, snipers, marauders, sorcs and juggs. Only opers, sins and dot pts. Maybe few maras or sorcs sometimes

As much as it pains me, I have to say this post is accurate.