I believe it is their deep immersion in darkness and their ability to strike fear into the hearts of their enemies.

The entire sith culture is built off taking survival of the fittest and taking it too far. In the academy they weed out the weak" so only the strong can get through then even after the academy that fight is still going on as others try to out witt them.

The empires military functions a lot better than the republics for a similar reason.

Also the sith empire isn't unstoppable they were being pushed back by the republic slowly hence why they empire went to get isotope-5.

I think there are many more Sith at this time than there are Jedi. The Sith are running a forced program where even slaves with the smallest amount of sensitivity are brought to the academy. They might not survive the experience, but they are producing mass amounts of dangerous, angry Sith. The Jedi are much more selective. Like that one guy who gets drummed out for asking for your help lifting a rock. The Jedi are weeding out the weak, where the Sith forcing them to grow or die.

Individual Sith may not be as strong as the Jedi, but there ar more of them. And they do say the dark side is powerful, so a Sith that barely made it through the academy my be stronger than one of the Jedi they didn't sideline.

This particular sith empire, or empires run by sith in general?

I think in this case, the story explanation is that the sith emperor is super powerful and he was kind of the backbone of what allowed it to be stronger than the republic.

Without him, the sith don't seem to be any stronger overall than the republic/Jedi. The only real difference is the sith endlessly seek power and the Jedi don't, but Jedi can still be uber powerful and it seems to be an ongoing argument within the SW universe as to just how powerful light and dark are. SWTOR logic seems to hint at the idea that neither is technically more powerful, but it's more a matter of how it gets used and how much raw force power the person has. Revan is kind of the posterchild for this idea, having been so far down both paths.

Was the sith empire really so powerful. Think about it they prepared for over a millennium to defeat and destroy the Republic and took it by surprise but even so they failed to accomplish their goal. In the second war they got their *** kicked in most engagements as now the Republic was prepared.

And about imperial soldiers being better then the Republic ones well not true at best their equal. But the best of the best the Republic has to offer is miles ahead of what the best of the best the empire has.

May be here is similar Thread. But I am curious to hear your opinion what makes Sith Empire so powerful and unstoppable and Sih so dangerous enemies?

They're not. They're one and only advantage is their utter ruthlessness. This, however, is more than offset by their utter and complete stupidity and short-sightedness. They're racist attitudes keep them from employing every potential weapon at their disposal, their lust for victory at any cost ends up costing them dearly (Corellia apparently cost the Empire a full tenth of their fighting power, only for them to abandon it anyway), and their merciless penchant for cruelty means their enemies are more determined to fight to the bitter end rather than be executed on their knees. And ruling by fear might motivate people under you for awhile, but it'll also scare off people who might have worked for you, which means you now have t spend a lot more money to attract them. Wasteful.

Once in a while you get Sith like Marr and Lana who can be ruthless, but only for the sake of pragmatism. They, however, are the exceptions. Most of the time you have exemplary and dedicated people in intelligence and the military beholden to megalomaniacs like Jadus, or complete idiots like Zhorrid.

With working conditions like that it's a wonder most of the empire's best officers don't defect.

If there is any shred of doubt left, then just look at the people the Empire is based on, and how well they did.

I think there are many more Sith at this time than there are Jedi. The Sith are running a forced program where even slaves with the smallest amount of sensitivity are brought to the academy.

And the vast majority die. The whole "survival of the fittest" thing might produce better, more ruthless warriors, but it also leaves you with very few to work with. As the German tank brigades found out against the American and Russian divisions, numbers count.

May be here is similar Thread. But I am curious to hear your opinion what makes Sith Empire so powerful and unstoppable and Sih so dangerous enemies?

So yeah, I don't know at this point what your talking about.

They aren't. I would argue that they are weaker than the Republic.

The empire excels in lightning warfare. They hit a place hard and fast, and do alot of damage to the other side in a short amount of time. Once that momentum dies down, they lose their advantage.

May be here is similar Thread. But I am curious to hear your opinion what makes Sith Empire so powerful and unstoppable and Sih so dangerous enemies?

As Zanya pointed out, their sheer ruthlessness. No weapon is too much, no tactic is too unspeakable. When you fight the Empire they fight with everything they have.

Saying that though the Sith Empire really struggled when the war restarted officially. They were forced to withdraw from all the core worlds. They were manipulated from the shadows by the star cabal.

But if you look at the Imperial stories. Both Sith classes are embroiled in a fight to survive and doing the bidding of a demented master who doesn't really care about the success of the Empire overall. The Imperial Agent is manipulated horridly like a puppet on a string and the Bounty Hunter is just there to make some credits. None of the 4 classes really fight for the Empire, they mainly fight for their own selves primarily. Arguably the Agent is the only one who actually fights for the Empire even if its not always direct.

This is in sheer contrast to the Republic where all four classes are actively attempting to oppose the Empire directly.

As Zanya pointed out, their sheer ruthlessness. No weapon is too much, no tactic is too unspeakable. When you fight the Empire they fight with everything they have.

The Empire are - in my opinion - mainly consisting of selfish Hooligans.

The Empire are - in my opinion - mainly consisting of selfish Hooligans.

Its really not all their fault for that though. The Emperor just left the Empire run wild till eventually the Republic started putting it in their place. Which is... exactly what V was counting on in fact hoping for.

Marr offered a better perspective but he came too late, and then the threats of Revan and now Zakuul and Marr's death just pretty much have knocked the Empire back to square 1.

As Zanya pointed out, their sheer ruthlessness. No weapon is too much, no tactic is too unspeakable. When you fight the Empire they fight with everything they have.

This doesn't actually matter or help. Ruthlessness in warfare has essentially no correlation to competence, and tactics have nothing to do with whether something is "unspeakable" or not. The dustbin of history is littered with the wreckage of armies comprised of ruthless men who did horrible things that didn't actually help them win wars. Ruthless men have sometimes been successful, too - but that's the point. Their amorality is largely a separate issue from their power.

The Sith Empire has military power because the game's developers have made it so, just like any fictional setting. It doesn't matter that they come from a tiny corner of the butt end of the galaxy because who cares about economics anyway. It doesn't matter that their military is mostly led by brainless individuals because most fictional military leaders are brainless since most writers don't really understand warfare. The Sith are powerful because the structure of the game requires them to be powerful.

This doesn't actually matter or help. Ruthlessness in warfare has essentially no correlation to competence, and tactics have nothing to do with whether something is "unspeakable" or not. The dustbin of history is littered with the wreckage of armies comprised of ruthless men who did horrible things that didn't actually help them win wars. Ruthless men have sometimes been successful, too - but that's the point. Their amorality is largely a separate issue from their power.

 

The Sith Empire has military power because the game's developers have made it so, just like any fictional setting. It doesn't matter that they come from a tiny corner of the butt end of the galaxy because who cares about economics anyway. It doesn't matter that their military is mostly led by brainless individuals because most fictional military leaders are brainless since most writers don't really understand warfare. The Sith are powerful because the structure of the game requires them to be powerful.

Have you ever heard of the mongols? They rose from what its even now a very very harsh place with little to no resources of any kind besides grass and became a huge empire defeating his neighbors who a had a economy and population hundreds of times bigger then them. The Jin empire that the mongols destroyed had a army of 500k the mongols had 100k. The Jin also did not need every single able bodied man to be part of the army to have those numbers but the mongols needed. Do I have to tell you how ruthless they also where?

The Sith Empire is on a full war footing, pouring as much resources as they can into the military (when some Sith doesn't waste them for his own ends ofc). That's what allowed them to hit the Republic so hard and fast when they first returned. Once the Reps slowly recovered and started building up forces that advantage meant less and less - even 100% of the Sith Empire's resources is but a fraction of what the Republic can spend when necessary.

And as mentioned ruthlessness goes only so far. It might seem like a good idea to execute prisoners (the enemy can't get them back) but when word gets out the next group will fight harder to avoid capture, killing more of your own troops in desperate last stands long after the objective has been decided. Sadly the Sith Empire seems to lack leaders capable of seeing that - it's often just the PC who can make the decision to let Reps surrender and live.

Have you ever heard of the mongols?

No, nobody here has ever heard of the Mongols.

Tell me, how much territory, economic power, and military might do they have now compared to China? Because rofl-stomping everyone around you doesn't mean a whole if you don't have the infrastructure and cultural unity to hold it all together in the long term, which is why they broke up into four smaller groups in 1260.

The Sith Empire is on a full war footing, pouring as much resources as they can into the military (when some Sith doesn't waste them for his own ends ofc).

It's not even just a few, though. You have majorly big players like...

No, nobody here has ever heard of the Mongols.

 

Tell me, how much territory, economic power, and military might do they have now compared to China? Because rofl-stomping everyone around you doesn't mean a whole if you don't have the infrastructure and cultural unity to hold it all together in the long term, which is why they broke up into four smaller groups in 1260.

My point was that its not poor unrealistic writing as it was possible in real life also. A state that uses most of the population for the military can successfully compete against states that have a powerful economy and population by several times.

By the way the sith empire that rules or ruled about half of the known galaxy is not even 50 years old there is nothing to say that it will not split in smaller groups now that the founder and first emperor is gone.

This doesn't actually matter or help. Ruthlessness in warfare has essentially no correlation to competence, and tactics have nothing to do with whether something is "unspeakable" or not. The dustbin of history is littered with the wreckage of armies comprised of ruthless men who did horrible things that didn't actually help them win wars. Ruthless men have sometimes been successful, too - but that's the point. Their amorality is largely a separate issue from their power.

 

The Sith Empire has military power because the game's developers have made it so, just like any fictional setting. It doesn't matter that they come from a tiny corner of the butt end of the galaxy because who cares about economics anyway. It doesn't matter that their military is mostly led by brainless individuals because most fictional military leaders are brainless since most writers don't really understand warfare. The Sith are powerful because the structure of the game requires them to be powerful.

Your argument of the Sith being plot device powerful does not detract or null Zanya's and my original point, that being the Sith Empire are, within this overall context that is SWTOR, ruthless and will utilise anything to win.

Counterpoint: Imagine, if the Republic fought the Sith Empire with the same ruthlessness as the Empire fights them, the Empire would probably be doomed very quickly. Since the Republic does not, the argument that the Empires ruthlessness is what aids their war-faring capability is still, in my view, valid.

My point was that its not poor unrealistic writing as it was possible in real life also. A state that uses most of the population for the military can successfully compete against states that have a powerful economy and population by several times.

By the way the sith empire that rules or ruled about half of the known galaxy is not even 50 years old there is nothing to say that it will not split in smaller groups now that the founder and first emperor is gone.

Oh yeah, there's nothing to say that the power-hungry, egomaniacal, bloodthirsty, sadists that make up the ruling class will split apart.

You do realize the only reason the Sith Empire even lasted at all is because of Vitiate, right? Without an insurmountable eldrich abomination sitting on the throne, or the Zakuul empire both keeping them in check and giving them something to unite against, they would self-destruct in months, no matter how well-liked Acina is, because everyone suffers from "Chronic Backstabbing Disorder" over there.

Heck, even WITH Vitiate uniting the Empire, you STILL had clowns like Lord Gratham starting wars right outside the capitol city!

Also, while conscripting the entire population might sound like a good idea, it's also unsustainable for long-periods of time, because every able body you put into the army is one no longer contributing to the work-force. And while the Empire does practice slavery, keep in mind you need military to sit on them to prevent and squash uprisings among them as well as occupied territories, again like on Drommund Kaas, and every one of them is a unit not in combat.

So yeah, no matter how you slice it the Empire is a mess.

Have you ever heard of the mongols? They rose from what its even now a very very harsh place with little to no resources of any kind besides grass and became a huge empire defeating his neighbors who a had a economy and population hundreds of times bigger then them. The Jin empire that the mongols destroyed had a army of 500k the mongols had 100k. The Jin also did not need every single able bodied man to be part of the army to have those numbers but the mongols needed. Do I have to tell you how ruthless they also where?

Nope, never heard of 'em.

"Small army defeats large army" is a very old story. It also doesn't usually have anything to do with "ruthlessness". Who were the victims of this ruthlessness? How did it translate to battlefield victory? I don't see any answers to those questions.

Steppe armies consistently had operational advantages over Chinese imperial forces because of their superior grasp of steppe logistics and their incredible mobility. Imperial forces countered this militarily with mass and with fortifications, which the Mongols were able to partially neutralize in the thirteenth century with a combination of higher leadership skills, development of an excellent engineering corps, and heavy recruitment among conquered populations. Ruthlessness didn't really factor into it. For example, news that Mongols had massacred the population of a conquered city sometimes led other cities to capitulate, and sometimes led to continued, or even more ferocious, resistance. Mongol opponents were also often "ruthless" as well. The Turkic states of Central Asia and the Middle East that opposed Mongol armies had militaries comprised largely of slave soldiers, which to me sounds fairly ruthless. They were known to slaughter the population of a resisting city or six. One could even say that to the extent that they were unusual, Mongol atrocities were so bad precisely because they were already militarily successful to a degree no other contemporary power was: causation running the other way.

Your argument of the Sith being plot device powerful does not detract or null Zanya's and my original point, that being the Sith Empire are, within this overall context that is SWTOR, ruthless and will utilise anything to win.

 

Counterpoint: Imagine, if the Republic fought the Sith Empire with the same ruthlessness as the Empire fights them, the Empire would probably be doomed very quickly. Since the Republic does not, the argument that the Empires ruthlessness is what aids their war-faring capability is still, in my view, valid.

That "counterpoint" isn't really an argument. I said that ruthlessness doesn't make a difference, and your counterargument is that if one side were more ruthless than they currently are, it would make a difference. That's reiteration, not reasoning.

I believe you're also confusing "ruthlessness" with resource mobilization. If you're saying that the Republic isn't fully utilizing the resources at hand - its massive industrial and economic base, or its superior manpower - those aren't particularly closely associated with being "ruthless". Those are organizational problems. Open, democratic societies have effectively mobilized their industrial capacity and manpower to win wars before (the most obvious example being the USA in the 1860s and in the 1940s). One can be "ruthless" in one's organization and mobilization of resources for industrial war, as was Nazi Germany (widespread slave labor and the Hunger Plan qualify as "ruthless", I believe) and still fail, or not noticeably improve one's chances.

Adam Tooze required 700 pages to reach the latter conclusion in his monograph The Wages of Destruction, which is widely regarded as a more or less definitive work on the German war economy. We don't have 700 pages - and uncounted more in statistics and secondary literature - of information about The Old Republic. We have vague impressions. There are simply no grounds for saying that the Empire is successful because of its ruthless application of available resources - and honestly, even if an authoritative nonpartisan in-game source said that, I wouldn't take it seriously because I don't believe that the writers would know what they were talking about. They write fiction. They don't have the time to invent hundreds of pages of statistics to come up with something that would add a tiny bit of verisimilitude for maybe fifty of their subscribers.

There is no good in-game reason for the Sith Empire to be so powerful. The best reason is the most obvious one: because the writers have made it so.

Its really not all their fault for that though. The Emperor just left the Empire run wild till eventually the Republic started putting it in their place. Which is... exactly what V was counting on in fact hoping for.

 

Marr offered a better perspective but he came too late, and then the threats of Revan and now Zakuul and Marr's death just pretty much have knocked the Empire back to square 1.

it is their faullt, but its like in typical real society - most people cant think for themselves or they very often they don't think at all ---> siths without proper guidance turn into empire of bullies and hooligans with exceptions like Darth Marr

He was there all this time, but one man even that powerful can't really change everyones thinking, especially when he has fools like Thanaton that would oppose him (and even if they are weaker its like pack of wolfs aiming for a bigger target

There is no good in-game reason for the Sith Empire to be so powerful. The best reason is the most obvious one: because the writers have made it so.

Aha, had a look at the lore. I think it's all in the sacking of coruscant and the history there (which I believes happens as the prelude to SWTOR, roughly).

See (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sacking_of_Coruscant):

With the Republic's capital securely in their grip, the Empire was able to take command of the negotiations on Alderaan. After the two-day long occupation and the destruction of much of Galactic City, the Republic delegation was forced to sign the controversial Treaty of Coruscant. Although it brought an end to the Great Galactic War and returned the capital to its original occupants, the treaty's highly biased mandates set the stage for the Cold War and forced the Republic into a debilitating position of weakness within the galaxy. As such, reconstruction of Coruscant was delayed and then drawn out for several years, with residents in the poorer areas of the planet being forced to make a living in the ruin left behind by the Sith. The planet's lower levels fell under gang control, and were largely ignored by the Republic government, which was headquartered on the very same world.

So what it really comes down to, it seems, is both were tearing each other apart and they were on the verge of treaty terms when the sith pulled off the sacking of coruscant. That one move pulled off so successfully forced the republic into the lesser position that they are in, in SWTOR. This says nothing of the actual strength of Rep and Imp on its own, which seems to have been fairly equal... it's just the sith made a clever move and forced their enemy into a bad spot.

it is their faullt, but its like in typical real society - most people cant think for themselves or they very often they don't think at all ---> siths without proper guidance turn into empire of bullies and hooligans with exceptions like Darth Marr

So how is it all the Sith's fault? As by your own admission without proper guidance, as in, without a powerful figure to keep them in check, the Sith are a bunch of loose cannons. Which is basically what I said.

So how is it all the Sith's fault?

Umm, because they're the ones in charge?

The entire sith culture is built off taking survival of the fittest and taking it too far. In the academy they weed out the weak" so only the strong can get through then even after the academy that fight is still going on as others try to out witt them.

 

The empires military functions a lot better than the republics for a similar reason.

 

Also the sith empire isn't unstoppable they were being pushed back by the republic slowly hence why they empire went to get isotope-5.

But they nearly brought the Republic to the brink of destruction *cough cough* Sacking of Coruscant *cough* and it was only Revan (or possibly Vitiate/Valkorian himself) that saved the Republic. The Sith Empire is a superior military force to the Republic in focused and brief campaigns. The longer the Empire can be stalled, the higher the Republic's chances of victory become. Think of the Empire as an Ataru practitioner and the Republic as a Soresu practitioner.