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The time has come to revamp Civil War


UltimateKrucible

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I think I speak for most PvPrs whan I say that it's time to redesign this WZ because of the problem of only needing one node to win once you are past a point in time.

 

I was playing it today and the opposition team held two until the very second (which was at something like 380 points) they only needed one to win, and then they all decamped to snow.

 

In those circumstances - with eight on one node which has a direct speeder to it - it was simply impossible for my team to win the match. Even if we overwhelmed the node and killed all of the opposition team, we could never have done it fast enough to stop someone coming back to interrupt .

 

I like Civil War as a map - but it strikes me that it's broken if you can guarantee a win before the mid way point.

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As well, most competitive RWZ games are decided by the first 20 seconds of a civil war.

 

Usually the team who gets first cap will win pretty easily. It's made even more frustrating because it leads to matches lasting 20 minutes for the fight for mid.

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As well, most competitive RWZ games are decided by the first 20 seconds of a civil war.

 

Usually the team who gets first cap will win pretty easily. It's made even more frustrating because it leads to matches lasting 20 minutes for the fight for mid.

 

These are sometimes the most frustrating games. It's 18 minutes of knowing the outcome. Really brutal.

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there was a short time during the 1.1 series of patches where there were no side speeders in A:CW. best matches ive been in for that warzone. they were much more tactical, and a lot less zergy

 

This would be a good start.

 

Reminds me of how Voidstar didn't always have the barrier in the middle. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to cap in a RWZ VS if that was still the case?

 

CW is a similar situation. Against good teams, it's simply too difficult to cap a node unless a node guard ****s up.

 

I've won and lost 7v8 games because of getting the first cap and playing like a ***** to defend mid.

Edited by Morde_
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there was a short time during the 1.1 series of patches where there were no side speeders in A:CW. best matches ive been in for that warzone. they were much more tactical, and a lot less zergy

 

I think this is one solution - altering how the cannons fire would be another.

 

It just needs a simple fix, because I honestly think it's a good WZ if they could just make it work.

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Its the worst wz map out there. It needs to be completely overhauled.
Naw, worst is by far VS. Every normal warzone on the map is decided by the teams luck with the barrier. They should revert it to the version without the fence in the middle.

 

The barrier on AHG is pretty crappy too but it seems to have less affect on the outcome. They really need to tweak it though because it is taking WAAAAY too long and nothing's more frustrating than first having waited what feeels like 30 secs for it and then have to wait for the explosion to pass. It's also going the wrong way from some odd reason. People are already having trouble with understanding the mechanic on AHG so what was the point of making the barrier timer tick clockwise when it's counter clockwise everywhere els?

Edited by MidichIorian
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I've been on the winning side once when we needed a 3 cap to win. Only needed the triple cap for 20-30secs to get the lead as it was near the end of a close game and the opposition hadn't had time to get defenders in place. Made all the more memorable as it was my 1000th win on that toon.

 

But like I said I've seen it once in a lot of games played so Civil War does need fixing.

 

Not sure what would be best but I'd like to see Novare Coast style capping.

Have the turrets turn in ticks the more rotated towards your enemies ship the more damage it did.

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civil war is worst map by far. I hate loading into it because I know win or lose 2 minutes into match one team will be farming defender medals. There has to be something done with this. Maybe only allow first 2 people at the node to collect defender medals. That way when you have 2 nodes the off node can still have 2 people defend it.

 

Jenna'syyde

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In ranked it's definitely pretty awful because, as said, first person to a side node first wins and then it's a 20 minute slug fest at mid for no decision.

 

In normals it's ok.

 

I would say it should be like Novarre in that you NEED two turrets to do damage to the enemy ship but given the situation at mid that would just lead to infinite warzones.

 

 

Taking out the side speeders would actually be a good start to be honest. At least take out the one to the natural turret (Grass pub side, snow Imp Side). That might encourage more openings against off turrets.

 

Or just take them out completely.

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all maps are pretty awfull except Huttball ... they might develope only maps without guarding some stupid things like pillars, nodes etc ...

 

and if they help pugs and quitters, we need maps with longer time limit and different mechanic, something like some1 quit and i got backfilled = i can fight and change the result .... its very good in counter strike or teamfortress maps done ... you can change score and final result to the lastest seconds of the match ...

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I've been on the winning side once when we needed a 3 cap to win. Only needed the triple cap for 20-30secs to get the lead as it was near the end of a close game and the opposition hadn't had time to get defenders in place.

 

I've also had a 3-cap-win in the same situation. They have to be so rare I wonder if it was the same game. But probably not. Pretty sure the one I was in one of my teammates ninja'd the node that they'd held forever, just about 3 seconds after we finally took mid back from them. Mine was on POT5, republic side.

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I'm going to have to disagree

 

Last night I played in one of the best CW matches ever.

 

we lost, the other team had 20 points left.

real nail biter, it came right down to the wire and we made them work their butts off for that win.

 

yes there is a point of no return, and that is part of the charm of the WZ.

 

matches like that one make civil war my favorite WZ.

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In ranked it's definitely pretty awful because, as said, first person to a side node first wins and then it's a 20 minute slug fest at mid for no decision.

 

In normals it's ok..

 

i think exactly the opposite.

 

lol edit: I think exactly the same. dur.

 

every map in ranked play sucks. in hb (assuming you have the requisite comp), it comes down to throwing grenades in mid and holding off on scores until your shadow is ready to throw a grenade and pop resil. boring.

 

in nc, it comes down to who wins the race to mid and pops his grenades first. once mid is decided, it's game over. boring.

 

ahg is the worst of them all. spend 3-4 rounds standing outside the "hot box" trying to pull enemies out for focus fire. what could be a fun version of CW down to the wire becomes the biggest waste of time in pvp.

 

as already mentioned, cw comes down to who caps natural node first (must have combat trans + shadow sprint). then spend the rest of the wz tying up mid. there's literally one option: do we pull the goalie? and when?

 

regs, on the other hand, are not reduced to one lowsy strat, whether you use grenades, whether you have an exactly right comp, and they allow for comebacks.

 

I totally agree with op about CW, btw, it's stupid to spend half the wz already having lost cuz you need a 3-cap. a slight tweak in the rules and possibly elimination of the side speeders is all that is necessary to remedy the situation.

Edited by foxmob
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there was a short time during the 1.1 series of patches where there were no side speeders in A:CW. best matches ive been in for that warzone. they were much more tactical, and a lot less zergy

 

Or when the side speeders had a cooldown to activate them.

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as a pug pvper all time i find civil war the worse of all the matches. its the one map you see your team mates give up far faster and sit on the one cap turret we got which is very frustrating to those of us that try our best to get the win.

 

The way i would redesign it is:

 

take away side speeders.

place a wall near where u land that defenders in mid cnat see if you go left or right would give it a more tatic feel to it

make it so its two turrets to do damage (seen groups come back from what looked like certain defeat in a NC with 3% and win).

 

Nothing worse than sitting there knowing no matter what u do its aloss for sure and drags so long. At least in a bad huttball game its over in a blink of an eye.

 

Huttball / Voidstar i would say are my fav two. Civil war my least fav as a pug (99% of time in a pug CW theres quitters and leavers on empire side on my server).

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Possible solution: as long as you hold one turret, every kill counts points towards depleting the enemies shields.

 

At least there would be a point to a mid fight then, to score kills even if you cant amass the zerg power for a full capture.

 

What bothers me in civil war is not fightning for 15 minutes in the middle, its the fact that you can fight 15 minutes, WIN the fight and still lose because they keep zerging the cap console and the other guy capped the turret 0.00001 seconds before us.

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CW has become rather tedious as of late, unless your with a team (and a leader) who actually thinks a bit about strategy you can pretty much predict how it is going to play out.

 

1. Both teams cap 1 side turret each.

2. Mad brawl at mid turret

3. 1 team caps mid

4. Losing team throws everything including the Kitchen sink at mid for half the match

5. Losing team gets desperate and tries a mass assault on the other side turret

6. Losing team gives up and farms medals

 

They do need to spice this one up a bit now, someone in another thread suggested upping the damage output of the mid turret, but not sure if that would actually help.

 

Removing the side speeders would be good and perhaps making it easier to get from the middle turret to the sides

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This post from the Is DPS Useless Post 50 thread has some interesting thoughts about high-level stalemates.

 

I wonder if re-enabling adrenals and relics and disabling field respec would help in ranked.

 

What about having mezzes work through DoTs or at least have mezzes clear DoTs so they work?

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Lately it seems like nearly every CW I've been in, the other faction sends 1-2 stealthers to the off side node right at the start, capping both sides right away. (At least when my faction only sends 1 and doesn't call incs.) Then, with the right people guarding, they can either zerg mid and 3-cap or at least prevent anyone else from capping. Is that the prevailing strategy in other people's CW games too?
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removal of the side speeders would make the map a zergfest as one team would be able to run back and forth between 2 nodes just preventing caps. It would still boil down to who capped first.

 

It would also make defending against a zerg rush on a side node far more difficult unless your entire team happened to be there.

 

 

If you are dead set on changing it I would suggest doing something that makes mid more valuable than a side node. Perhaps a buff of some type applied team wide.

 

I would be opposed to making it work like Novare Coast, primarily because two warzones with the exact same mechanic would get really old really fast.

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Lately it seems like nearly every CW I've been in, the other faction sends 1-2 stealthers to the off side node right at the start, capping both sides right away. (At least when my faction only sends 1 and doesn't call incs.) Then, with the right people guarding, they can either zerg mid and 3-cap or at least prevent anyone else from capping. Is that the prevailing strategy in other people's CW games too?

 

if you have a combat sent and two counselors (pref shadows), then you can get the good trans + sprint and interfere with the opponents natural cap while getting your natural node asap. then the stalemate at mid wins it for you. it's pretty rare in regs, but it's the norm in rated, from kick ball through to the best guilds on server. the only choice I ever see is if you/they pull the goalie and when. however, if you're getting side capped right away, that's your team's fault. you have to notice a lack of red plates at mid right away.

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