Had it so bad as DPS until I rolled one.

I've got a 50 Merc DPS and a 50 PT tank. I've seen some poorly implemented PvP classes.

But my Ops just hit thirty, and I realized something ridiculous:

Assassin DPS is so much better.

Hidden Strike at 36 MIGHT make up for it, but I doubt it. This class is awful in a DPS spec. Lethality has far too much set up and energy consumption with current TTK. Concealment is less than impressive in my mind, because I can handle it easily on my merc.

Anything an Arsenal merc can handle easily isn't that impressive.

Honestly? What is the point of playing a non-healing operative? Someone help me out because I'm starting to think this is a "get the buff and throw it in the closet for life" AC if I don't want to heal.

I'll just go show this Thread to all the Operatives who have knocked me down and took off 3/4 of my life before I even stand up.

Exactly.

Had it so bad as DPS until I rolled one.

 

I've got a 50 Merc DPS and a 50 PT tank. I've seen some poorly implemented PvP classes.

 

But my Ops just hit thirty, and I realized something ridiculous:

 

Assassin DPS is so much better.

 

Hidden Strike at 36 MIGHT make up for it, but I doubt it. This class is awful in a DPS spec. Lethality has far too much set up and energy consumption with current TTK. Concealment is less than impressive in my mind, because I can handle it easily on my merc.

 

Anything an Arsenal merc can handle easily isn't that impressive.

 

Honestly? What is the point of playing a non-healing operative? Someone help me out because I'm starting to think this is a "get the buff and throw it in the closet for life" AC if I don't want to heal.

You're level 30. You don't have optimized EWH/WH gear. You don't have all your skills including your 31-point. Arsenal Mercenary stands no chance against a well-geared and skilled Concealment Operative. I'm fairly confident a competent Concealment Operative could defeat your Arsenal Mercenary without loosing 1/4 of their health.

You're level 30. You don't have optimized EWH/WH gear. You don't have all your skills including your 31-point. Arsenal Mercenary stands no chance against a well-geared and skilled Concealment Operative.

Yeah... It does. They knock me down, I get up, eat stun, break stun, knock back, dart so they can't restealth, and then deposition. If they follow me they have to fight my team mates too. If they don't, I find them when they aren't looking and drill them. It's a simple rotation to counter. They are most productive ambushing me when I'm already fighting someone else.

I'll stick out to acid knife, but it's about as fun as pulling teeth.

Yeah... It does. They knock me down, I get up, eat stun, break stun, knock back, dart so they can't restealth, and then deposition. If they follow me they have to fight my team mates too. If they don't, I find them when they aren't looking and drill them. It's a simple rotation to counter. They are most productive ambushing me when I'm already fighting someone else.

 

I'll stick out to acid knife, but it's about as fun as pulling teeth.

Dps ops are one of the best 1v1 classes. Yes they are bad for RWZs, but they're great for 1v1s.

Yeah... It does. They knock me down, I get up, eat stun, break stun, knock back, dart so they can't restealth, and then deposition. If they follow me they have to fight my team mates too. If they don't, I find them when they aren't looking and drill them. It's a simple rotation to counter. They are most productive ambushing me when I'm already fighting someone else.

 

I'll stick out to acid knife, but it's about as fun as pulling teeth.

I assume you're speaking about an operative vs arsenal merc right? Well operatives can cleanse tech dots/slows so after you knockback them they'll just do that, root you if they have to and proceed to close the gap and stab you to death with their vibroknife. Since you used your CC breaker for the hidden strike knockdown, they can also flashbang you and heal themselves if they are in trouble.

Unless you get help from your teammates, you stand little chance against a decent operative.

I assume you're speaking about an operative vs arsenal merc right? Well operatives can cleanse tech dots/slows so after you knockback them they'll just do that, root you if they have to and proceed to close the gap and stab you to death with their vibroknife. Since you used your CC breaker for the hidden strike knockdown, they can also flashbang you and heal themselves if they are in trouble.

 

Unless you get help from your teammates, you stand little chance against a decent operative.

I cleanse tech attacks as well. I don't 1v1 ops. I let them open, displace, and the make them burn their stealth to exit combat or make them fight me and 2 of my friends. Their root doesn't bother me. If I start the fight at full health, I can ninja off an Operative. Once he changes targets, I rain missiles on him. He's much easier to handle then the Sents and shadows I spend all day running from. . . mostly because I can cleanse his stuff.

Get hidden strike and get back with us on that. From what I've seen/been told by the few good op dps it's pretty bad til then.

As a longtime player of these classes, having leveled 2 Scrappers and 1 Concealment to 50, I can tell you that Hidden Strike/Shoot First changes everything at 36. The same goes, even moreso, to the level 40 Acid Blade/Flechette Round. Levels 40 - 49 are just a rampage for decent Ops/Scoundrel players, because those abilities are just so darn good in the pre 50 WZ bracket. Do not despair yet! Things will get better once you hit 36 and 40.

...at least until you hit 50. Then things tumble downhill again, although they improve slightly once you can get fully augmented WH gear.

Dps ops are one of the best 1v1 classes. Yes they are bad for RWZs, but they're great for 1v1s.

Very true. Assuming equal, or near equal, gear, we should be able to beat almost all classes 1v1. Pyroytechs and Juggs can be nasty, as can very good Sins, but as long as you have all your CDs up and ready to go, you really won't lose a lot of 1v1s. Of course, as you say, RWZs (and pug WZs to a lesser extent) are rarely about 1v1 play. In these arenas, Shadows/Sins are often just better.

As to the difference between Mercs and Ops, Mercs are absolutely the worse DPS class. Those guys just get shredded by competent Op players. They are the clear bottom of the PvP totem pole.

I cleanse tech attacks as well. I don't 1v1 ops. I let them open, displace, and the make them burn their stealth to exit combat or make them fight me and 2 of my friends. Their root doesn't bother me. If I start the fight at full health, I can ninja off an Operative. Once he changes targets, I rain missiles on him. He's much easier to handle then the Sents and shadows I spend all day running from. . . mostly because I can cleanse his stuff.

You didn't face good operatives then

Its not my fault bioware pissed them ALL off and they quit playing on my server =/

I see a good scary op like once a month in wzs.

Had it so bad as DPS until I rolled one.

 

I've got a 50 Merc DPS and a 50 PT tank. I've seen some poorly implemented PvP classes.

 

But my Ops just hit thirty, and I realized something ridiculous:

 

Assassin DPS is so much better.

 

Hidden Strike at 36 MIGHT make up for it, but I doubt it. This class is awful in a DPS spec. Lethality has far too much set up and energy consumption with current TTK. Concealment is less than impressive in my mind, because I can handle it easily on my merc.

 

Anything an Arsenal merc can handle easily isn't that impressive.

 

Honestly? What is the point of playing a non-healing operative? Someone help me out because I'm starting to think this is a "get the buff and throw it in the closet for life" AC if I don't want to heal.

You must be the worst PT/Merc in the game if you feel like they are under powered fail boat!

I'll just go show this Thread to all the Operatives who have knocked me down and took off 3/4 of my life before I even stand up.

Pfft, that's horrible. They should be able to take 3.5/4 of your health before you stand up. Anything else is just bad dps.

Numbers aren't everything. There's a price to pay for having stealth, a heal, mega cc locks and high burst damage.

If you think they're underpowered try playing a healer and seeing what they're capable of doing to you.

I'll just go show this Thread to all the Operatives who have knocked me down and took off 3/4 of my life before I even stand up.

Assins are much stronger than Ops and they have a longer knockdown that they can use out of stealth.

Ops only attack my Merc twice alone. They attack the 1st time and I kill them. Then they attack a second time to make sure that I can kill them repeatably and I can. Then they either leave me alone or bring friends.

Maybe having an Op helps me understand how to defeat them. You just basically have to outlast their initial burst. Unless I am at 50% health or less when they open up on me they are gonna die.. even the good ones.

It is sad but the Op is the easiest spec to kill right now... even for a lowly Merc.

This is my 2nd Operative that I leveled to 50 and I never had any issues in PvP in the 10-49 bracket. I kept both Ops decently geared till ~40. I had no issues hitting highest DPS and killing blows either. Maybe a lot of those players were under geared, maybe some of them were just bad (plenty of them out there). Either way, we can still pump out some great numbers and top the damage and killing blow charts. For concealment spec'd Ops we get scary at 36 and deadly at 40. Spend a little money on gearing your guy every now and then. When I was lvl 42, the stars aligned (everything crit) and i blew up a 49 powertech in about ~5 seconds. He messaged me after it happened and we had a laugh about it, he then continued to focus me for the rest of the WZ.

We have a pretty clunky rotation and energy management can be a pain in the but sometimes. At lvl 50 we have to work a little harder than most to achieve greatness, but it is possible. I played an Assassin to 50 before I switched to the Op, and I'll never go back. Just keep your chin up and your that vibroknife stabbing.

Assins are much stronger than Ops and they have a longer knockdown that they can use out of stealth.

 

Ops only attack my Merc twice alone. They attack the 1st time and I kill them. Then they attack a second time to make sure that I can kill them repeatably and I can. Then they either leave me alone or bring friends.

 

Maybe having an Op helps me understand how to defeat them. You just basically have to outlast their initial burst. Unless I am at 50% health or less when they open up on me they are gonna die.. even the good ones.

 

It is sad but the Op is the easiest spec to kill right now... even for a lowly Merc.

This is where you are incredibly wrong. If you think this you're a bad operative and you've been playing horrible concealment operatives. The first burst deals damage, but it hardly matters. Any decent players (who aren't terrible) will be able to survive the first burst with over 50% life.

The fact is you can use emergency escape and reapply that burst. If you aren't, or aren't facing Operative who are doing this, then you are facing horrible operatives. If emergency escape is on cooldown, then you flashbang, or stun and run away (unless you need to stop an objective cap). There is no situation in which you should be loosing solo as an operative except to tank assassins and Annihilation marauders.

Emergency escape takes a bit of experience to dodge the stealth-scan, follow up smash, deathfield, force storm, knockbacks.

I'll just go show this Thread to all the Operatives who have knocked me down and took off 3/4 of my life before I even stand up.

Pretty much.

This is where you are incredibly wrong. If you think this you're a bad operative and you've been playing horrible concealment operatives. The first burst deals damage, but it hardly matters. Any decent players (who aren't terrible) will be able to survive the first burst with over 50% life.

 

The fact is you can use emergency escape and reapply that burst. If you aren't, or aren't facing Operative who are doing this, then you are facing horrible operatives. If emergency escape is on cooldown, then you flashbang, or stun and run away (unless you need to stop an objective cap). There is no situation in which you should be loosing solo as an operative except to tank assassins and Annihilation marauders.

 

Emergency escape takes a bit of experience to dodge the stealth-scan, follow up smash, deathfield, force storm, knockbacks.

Right on man. Especially about the tankasin/annihilation part. Very few operatives will admit that truth. I had no problem killing operatives on my watchman, playing combat I still haven't figured out if its possible with that spec or not. self healing makes a big difference.

Good point in the emergency escape as well. It seems as if very few operatives actually use this to reapply hidden strike again during a fight. People like to say that assassins are better than operatives. An assassin can't open out of stealth and have someone at near half of his life before he gets off the ground. And as mentioned earlier assassins can't heal during combat. You really can't compare the two. It'd be like comparing a smash Jugg to a pyro pt. both do good burst, but each have a unique set of tools to contribute.

You're judging a class from lowbie pvp experience ????

That's when I stopped reading.

I'll just go show this Thread to all the Operatives who have knocked me down and took off 3/4 of my life before I even stand up.

People apparently have a hard time understanding that the ability to take away 60-70% of the targets life in some sort of 'special combo', every 1.5 minutes, is not overpowered when you basically do nothing else, and when your 'special combo' can be healed through in competitive play.

This is just the narrow mindset that makes balancing so difficult in MMO's. People don't want to nerf what's actually OP, they demand nerfs for things that they find annoying. In other words, they ignore objective facts.

The fact is this: deception sins (which is their inferior pvp specc) severely outperform conceal ops. They have much higher consistent dmg, the burst is comparable, and their survivability is much better.