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Shadow tank vs Assassin dps

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Shadow tank vs Assassin dps

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
02.19.2013 , 09:10 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by LordExozone View Post
Also, I really hope Bioware will have the guts to change how defensive stats like shield and defense works in PvP, It makes zero sense that these stats are only roughly 50% effective in pvp, while dps stats are 100% effective.
Trust me, if defense and shield worked on all attack and damage types, we would all be rolling tanks. It's fine the way it is. If anything, it leaves the door open for Bioware to tweak class balance by changing a particular attack or damage type. Example: you could buff a merc by changing a white attack to a yellow attack.
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cycao's Avatar


cycao
02.19.2013 , 09:19 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Trust me, if defense and shield worked on all attack and damage types, we would all be rolling tanks. It's fine the way it is. If anything, it leaves the door open for Bioware to tweak class balance by changing a particular attack or damage type. Example: you could buff a merc by changing a white attack to a yellow attack.
I agree. A tank and healer combo would be close to unbeatable.

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
02.19.2013 , 09:19 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Trust me, if defense and shield worked on all attack and damage types, we would all be rolling tanks. It's fine the way it is. If anything, it leaves the door open for Bioware to tweak class balance by changing a particular attack or damage type. Example: you could buff a merc by changing a white attack to a yellow attack.
This^

tank in tank gear can 1vs1 some classes and in worst case stand 30 seconds against 2 stealthers who pop out suddenly, which should be more then enouth time for 2 team members to come and help (so 2 stealtehrs pop, I type '2 east', and if from that point, no one comes in 40 seconds, then it's a fail team who doesn't deserve to win).

if tanks will get buffed, we all be rolling tanks
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anstalt's Avatar


anstalt
02.19.2013 , 09:36 AM | #24
I do agree that tanks get the short end of the stick in that too many player attacks are force or tech, and thus bypass defences. It does make you feel quite crap when you consider that you gave up the ability to do much damage by equiping all the tank gear.

However, tanks shine in a group environment. Whilst it is currently not a fair trade when deciding between tank or dps gear, in a group situation your increase in survivability will help you protect other people which in turn helps your team win. Tanks in TOR PvP are pure team players and generally terrible at winning 1v1s. So, you must adopt that mindset when playing a tank. Find a healer or DPS to guard whilst in the main fight, and if you are 1v1ing whilst defending then you purely need to stall, not win. If you are 1v1ing at any other time then you are probably doing it wrong.
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TonyDragonflame's Avatar


TonyDragonflame
02.19.2013 , 10:20 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by -Holmes View Post
It. Is. Tank. Gear.

If a tank can 1 on 1 a dps and win, THEN I know something is wrong. Tanks aren't for duels, they're for objectives.
Every class and every spec must be competitive 1 vs 1, cuz must be only 1 requirement - skill.

Thats all.

LordExozone's Avatar


LordExozone
02.19.2013 , 04:38 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I agree. A tank and healer combo would be close to unbeatable.
Nonsense. When your team attacks a tank + healer combo you knock the healer out of guard range, chain CC the tank, and burst the healer down. Even if this isn't possible due to being in an uncoordinated pug, you will still be focussing on the healer first, and only on the tank when the healer has died. The survivability of the tank has very little influence on how powerful a tank + healer combo is.

In addition, the defense stat is completely nullified by the accuracy stat, and shield + absorb are nullified by the crit stat. Atm no one in his right mind stacks accuracy because there are only a handful tanks in defensive gear on each server pvp'ing. And most people stack power over crit. When "everyone" rolls tanks with 40% defense and shield chance in pvp, everyone else will start to stack accuracy and crit to counter it.
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PlagaNerezza's Avatar


PlagaNerezza
02.19.2013 , 09:26 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by johnyangelo View Post
My char: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...7-c6ab006f95ed

Endurance, utility, survivablity.
25% defense is not a differential in PVP. I ran it. You're shielding while its not 100% wasted is a ton of stats that people just bypass when fighting a tank. I don't understand why you don't as a tank go 23/17/1. For pure tanking having the damage reduction boost is far more important as a pure tank.

You give up a 25% on demand damage reduction and a 30% aoe damage reduction.

If you are tanking take the damage reduction with the pvp adrenal + dark embrace and your shield you can just soak so much damage. It also means you have a fairly useful maul, with a thrash proccing shock. I also like to save recklessness for my healers to get critical heals on me as a tank which is easier since your not as dependent on things like DF.

However, I don't have a single tank stat in my gear. I guard, taunt and dps like a tank just without the 10k extra health.

The 23/1/17 spec extra CC is good for node defending. To give up shock damage to take DOT damage reduction on the tank spec with a cleanse? I don't get your build at all.

Try this tanking spec It is a much better build if you are not going to take wither and harnessed darkness, which are very underrated skills in my opinion.
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Cowflab's Avatar


Cowflab
02.19.2013 , 10:28 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by PlagaNerezza View Post
25% defense is not a differential in PVP. I ran it. You're shielding while its not 100% wasted is a ton of stats that people just bypass when fighting a tank. I don't understand why you don't as a tank go 23/17/1. For pure tanking having the damage reduction boost is far more important as a pure tank.

You give up a 25% on demand damage reduction and a 30% aoe damage reduction.

If you are tanking take the damage reduction with the pvp adrenal + dark embrace and your shield you can just soak so much damage. It also means you have a fairly useful maul, with a thrash proccing shock. I also like to save recklessness for my healers to get critical heals on me as a tank which is easier since your not as dependent on things like DF.

However, I don't have a single tank stat in my gear. I guard, taunt and dps like a tank just without the 10k extra health.

The 23/1/17 spec extra CC is good for node defending. To give up shock damage to take DOT damage reduction on the tank spec with a cleanse? I don't get your build at all.

Try this tanking spec It is a much better build if you are not going to take wither and harnessed darkness, which are very underrated skills in my opinion.
I prefer the 22/17/2 variation for max survivability(no need to boost shock damage because your job is to mitigate it) or the 22/18/1 variation with a point in static cling for better slows. Other than that, I totally agree. Although I do often run in a 31/0/10 for voidstars. Wither slow is boss in that wz.
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Xerain's Avatar


Xerain
02.19.2013 , 10:52 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by LordExozone View Post
Rofl, that's the silliest excuse I've ever heard for dps specs dominating in pvp. "It's okey dps specs destroy tanks...tanks are for holding objectives." Ahhh, it all falls into place now. Because I can hold an objective 10 seconds longer, I should stand no chance in 1on1 encounters!!

Thankfully this isn't true in SWTOR. Hybrid juggernaut tanks destroy most dps specs. Shadow/Assassin tanks beat pretty much everything 1 on 1, and even the Shieldtech powertech, the sad black sheep of all the SWTOR specs, can beat some dps specs in duels when played well.

Also, I really hope Bioware will have the guts to change how defensive stats like shield and defense works in PvP, It makes zero sense that these stats are only roughly 50% effective in pvp, while dps stats are 100% effective.
Not ever DPS can beat a tankasin though. And yeah being able to hold that objective 10 seconds longer is MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME FOR SOMEONE TO REINFORCE.

PlagaNerezza's Avatar


PlagaNerezza
02.20.2013 , 01:13 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Xerain View Post
Not ever DPS can beat a tankasin though. And yeah being able to hold that objective 10 seconds longer is MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME FOR SOMEONE TO REINFORCE.
Many classes can kill my tanksin in the classic build. Operatives/powertechs are especially good at taking me down. The reason to roll 23/1/17 is to hold the line while maintaining dps. You peel for the healers and squishy dps with guards/taunts and dps. You play inbetween the marauder, powertech, juggie dps guys guarding them if your back row is clean to push back the enemy team and provide CC as needed while DPSing anyone daring enough to try and charge through to your back row. We create space.

Any spec that can take away mid combat stealth is a problem 1vs1 for a tanksin. Deny my ability to regain first strike and leverage my CC and I get soft. Beating an assassin is typically about denying them quickly the advantage that first strike with force shroud provides. Because if I can then dissappear keeping you in combat and reappear with another round of CC/first strike I've pretty much assured my survival/victory in the fight.

Really good sins will first strike dissappear while breaking combat, immediately CC you and recharge. 1vs1 those guys are exceptionally tough because our opening cycle is no joke with recklessness shock and maul both proccing twice on someone. Again that is often not optimal in team play, but 1 vs 1. Yeah assassin and operative are insane. In-combat stealth is very powerful.
Judust Jax
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