Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Critical crystals will become the new BiS?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Critical crystals will become the new BiS?

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
10.14.2019 , 01:42 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Not for pvp. Mastery has mostly been BiS
Why do you think that?
-Beruhl, NiM Space Barbie and Solo Ranked Forum PvP (ง︡'-'︠)ง
(\/)(Ö,,,,Ö)(\/) ¦̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱(̢ ̡͇̅└͇̅┘͇̅ (▤8כ−◦
8 pugs and a grophet i do what i want major league memes can i borrow a stim?

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
10.14.2019 , 04:57 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Why do you think that?
Because it gives stats to crit chance and well as crit and damage. I guess you could’ve decide to switch around some augments to get the stats balanced on your character, but it always seemed that the majority of pvpers used mastery (unless they were tanks and making crit heavy builds).

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
10.14.2019 , 05:04 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
there is no mastery crystal. i think mastery is better than crit once you get to 2000 crit or something... for pve
As you can see, there are mastery crystals
https://swtorista.com/crystals

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
10.14.2019 , 05:12 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
i dont pvp... thought they were still expertise trash... thanks for the info
im not asking for anyone to believe me. everyone should derive numbers with their own assumptions built into the math.

3206 al
crit 11960.35
mas 11942.66
pow 11942.63


1214 ala
crit 11929.02
mas 11928.68
pow 11928.41

looks like crit is still better in all instances... if you change the accuracy assumptions this could change, since you would free up around 600 points. seems likely mastery might be better than crit around 3800 crit or so...

edit. with 97% acc and 1.4 gcd crit is still better (3468 crit):

crit 11759.02593
mas 11758.68879
pow 11758.53962

at 1.4 s gcd you will want 5 mastery more than the lowest you can have (negligible), and crit will only get better with higher surge and crit buffs to abilities in the rotation... so i would suggest crit unless you just want high burst and/or you have auto crit machnics in your rotation. if you have 97% accuracy (1000 rating) you will want to have 528 more mastery than minimum:
mastery 11087.6843
power rating 9909
crit rating 3468.32
surge rating 3468.32
accuracy rating 1000
alacrity rating 1214
force/tech power 7008

crystal info:
crit 11759.02633
mas 11758.69588
pow 11758.54651

so mastery is still better than power at this point (and remember the more abilities you have with buffed crit/surge, the better mastery will be than these numbers)

with no accuracy (i think i heard thats a thing in ranked or soemthing..)
mastery 11975.57489
power rating 9909
crit rating 3580.43
surge rating 3580.43
accuracy rating 0
alacrity rating 1214

and looking into crystals again at 0 accuracy:
crit 11330.70931
mas 11330.41093
pow 11330.44095

so power is better than mastery, which means the 9909 power can likely be increased by sacrificing mastery (assuming none of your abilities have crit or surge increaser passives). neither power nor mastery are better than crit though...



if you have 1.3 gcd you will want minimum mastery
I’m not going to pick apart your numbers because I know you’ve contributed the theory crafting in the past to Hotties Rambol.net info. So you understand that stuff better than me. But I am interested in how you are determining that crit and power crystals are better in pvp if you don’t play pvp.

Have you tested that on main hand weapons because they aren’t covered under bolster. I know in the past when I’ve used crit crystals in main hand that I seem to do less damage. Hence, I just put master in both MH and off hand and tweak my stats using augments and enhancements (ie removing some accuracy).

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
10.14.2019 , 05:17 PM | #15
these numbers are based on a toy dps model that assumes spamming a single ability that has no crit or surge buffs.

dps=(base damage + bonus damage)*(1+crit*surge)*(1+alacrity)/cast_time.

assuming some cast time (since the change is taken care of by alacrity) we can take that out and look at maximizing the rest. using the equations from here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...stat+equations and excel solver (evolutionary algo) i can find where the peak dps is from the contraints of stat pool (right now im only assuming crit and mastery trade which makes it much faster to solve). i calc the dps by comparing my default (crit crystal) to using 82 of mastery or power and those are the numbers i am reporting.

of course your hits will be bigger with mastery, since that is what it does, but you will crit less often than if you were to use a crit crystal.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
10.14.2019 , 05:37 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post

of course your hits will be bigger with mastery, since that is what it does, but you will crit less often than if you were to use a crit crystal.
I think this is the important part of the situation. Because your main hand isn’t included in bolster, having a master crystal that lets you hit harder is the way to go and just gain your extra crit from augments.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
10.14.2019 , 09:59 PM | #17
Well on my shadow I run the 1.4s alacrity breakpoint at ~720 alac, so I don't use many alac augs and run mostly mastery augs, and 2000 crit. Thus I run two power crystals.

Also, I think according to the mastery charts, you hit a soft cap on the critical aspect of mastery at around 8000 or so. I currently have 8197 mastery.
-Beruhl, NiM Space Barbie and Solo Ranked Forum PvP (ง︡'-'︠)ง
(\/)(Ö,,,,Ö)(\/) ¦̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱(̢ ̡͇̅└͇̅┘͇̅ (▤8כ−◦
8 pugs and a grophet i do what i want major league memes can i borrow a stim?

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
10.15.2019 , 12:05 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I think this is the important part of the situation. Because your main hand isn’t included in bolster, having a master crystal that lets you hit harder is the way to go and just gain your extra crit from augments.
you typically want to balance your stats to produce higher overall dps, but if you just want big hits (without surge) you can ignore crit completely. you can also use crit crystals and get mastery from augments.... looking at this spreadsheet ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=754003953 ) for bolster, it looks like you get free mastery, so you may want more crit, since crit and alacrity are typically better than mastery or power. power seems to be better than crit for low values of base hit.

base mas pow acc ala crit
1500 7510 4543 737 703 2170
2000 7466 4461 737 703 2296
2500 7355 4461 737 703 2407

assuming no accuracy:
base mas pow acc ala crit
1500 8184 4543 0 703 2233
2000 8143 4461 0 703 2356
2500 8033 4461 0 703 2466




to know the base hit you need to know the modifiers:


from bant's methodology:
[Ability DPS] =
( ( [Avg Mainhand Weapon Damage] x [1 + AmountModifierPercent] + [Bonus Damage/Force/Tech/Heal] x [Coefficient] + [Avg StandardHealthPercent]*[Base_DMG or Base_Heal] ) x [Accuracy %] + [Avg offhand Weapon Damage] x [1 + AmountModifierPercent] x [Offhand Accuracy] )
x ( 1 + [Ability Bonus Damage] + [Ability Active Damage] + [Debuff for F/T/M/R] + [Debuff for I/E])
x ( 1 + [Ability Damage Multipliers] )
x ( 1 + [Debuff for AOE] )
x ( 1 + [Execute Bonus Damage] )
x ( [# of Hits] )
x ( 1 + ( ( [Crit %] + [Ability Crit % bonus] ) + [Autocrit Proc Rate] / [Time Averaged Usage] ) x ( [Crit Bonus Damage] + [Ability Crit Damage Bonus] ) )
x ( 1 - 1 / ( 1 + ( ( 800 + 240 * [Level] ) / ( [Target Armor] x ( 1 - [Armor Debuff] ) x ( 1 - [Armor Penetration] ) ) ) ) )
x ( 1 + [Alacrity %] + [Average Alacrity % bonus] ) / [Time Averaged Usage]


Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Well on my shadow I run the 1.4s alacrity breakpoint at ~720 alac, so I don't use many alac augs and run mostly mastery augs, and 2000 crit. Thus I run two power crystals.

Also, I think according to the mastery charts, you hit a soft cap on the critical aspect of mastery at around 8000 or so. I currently have 8197 mastery.
you need to actually balance the stats instead of relying on what looks like a knee in a curve. as you can see from the above values, mastery above 8,000 is a thing, and you need to adjust the crit throughout the range, because the more mastery you add the better crit is, and the more crit you have the better mastery is. the algo says power isnt *** good as crit or mastery for high base values of hit, so you may want mastery or crit crystals instead.

it is evident that mastery augs became viable somewhere in 252 and 258 gear.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
10.15.2019 , 01:05 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
you need to actually balance the stats instead of relying on what looks like a knee in a curve. as you can see from the above values, mastery above 8,000 is a thing, and you need to adjust the crit throughout the range, because the more mastery you add the better crit is, and the more crit you have the better mastery is. the algo says power isnt *** good as crit or mastery for high base values of hit, so you may want mastery or crit crystals instead.

it is evident that mastery augs became viable somewhere in 252 and 258 gear.
Ok, I trust your maths more than me eyeballing a curve on a graph. I assume mastery is better than power because of the 5% class buff on a higher stat pool...?

Do you think a serenity shadow benefits more from critical or mastery since DoT hits and crits have an added benefit of self healing?
-Beruhl, NiM Space Barbie and Solo Ranked Forum PvP (ง︡'-'︠)ง
(\/)(Ö,,,,Ö)(\/) ¦̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱(̢ ̡͇̅└͇̅┘͇̅ (▤8כ−◦
8 pugs and a grophet i do what i want major league memes can i borrow a stim?

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
10.15.2019 , 02:50 PM | #20
anything that increases the crit chance or surge will make crit and mastery better. when between crit and mastery, crit gets better than mastery.