Let's do a basic rundown here just so people who want to roll deception or madness can get a better idea than listening to the trolling nutcases that post on here.

None of the trees are broken. They all play exactly as intended, though the survivability of Deception and Madness are a bit off, but it's nowhere near as horrible as Sniper/Slinger. The Darkness Assassin does not do more dps than the madness or the Deception. It is simply a simpler rotation with the ability to survive a lot more while having Guard (hands down a free heal, multiple taunts, and self heals). It does significantly less dps. If you don't believe me square off against a Madness or deception without using heals or Defensive cooldowns, and watch how fast they drop you. You will take 20 percent of their health before they drop you like a rock. If it's a dps race you will lose.

The only reason Madness deals out more damage (KEY WORD) is due to the fact that they will live significantly longer due to Defensive CD's, Self Heals, and Better Armor.

Here is the most basic rundown of the trees.

1. Darkness

Upside: Decent DPS, Great survivability, solid control capabilities, and amazing self heals. The fact that you stay alive longer means you can deal out more total damage. Please remember total damage has nothing to do with pvp capability as it has everything to do with situation, job requirements, and how long you live. It has nothing to do with your ability to dish out damage. PLEASE STOP CONFUSING DAMAGE WITH DPS.

Downside - Everyone hates you and because of the ability to wear dps gear to maximize potential of the tree BW has decided to go CRAZY on pvp gear to prevent tanks from being able to tank and kill someone 1v1.

2. Deception -

Upside: Great Burst - can blow through any healer/sniper/ranged damage dealer within a few seconds. Their initial burst and ability to blow push a healer is really amazing if played right. They really need a shorter cooldown on Force Cloak, and it would be nice to have a self heal. In a good team, a Deception Assassin can move around and blow up healers and take out ranged with ease. In pve they have great burst for rage timers.

Downside: Poor Survivability, broken stealth mechanic, lower end sustainable dps for pve, and absolutely awful control. For a class built on burst, the biggest issue is that half the time you have to run away from people if you can't drop them within the first 5-7 seconds of the fight. Their ability to control someone in combat is so bad that once your deception assassin gets jumped it's best to let them die rather than attempt to heal them. Outside of Open World PVP and solid team play this tree is ridiculously tough to maintain. It's poor energy mechanics make it a solid last place in pve viability.

3. Madness

Upside: Great dps, fantastic pve sustainable dps, decent self heals, and insta-whirlwind. This class can punish any class that it decides to jump on. Death field combined with insta whirlwind make this class very good. The dots are relatively strong while adding a strong burst when needed. It's ability to control while punishing makes this a strong dps class for those in pvp who wish to push an opposing player.

Downside: Complicated rotation, low end survivability, extended ramp up time to burst. The key here is that you have to control the fight. The biggest problem with the Madness tree is no ability to survive if you don't start the fight. The complicated rotation, and clunky deathfield mechanics make this a very tough tree to play. It's not as bad as people say, but it's not fantastic.

TLDR version: Darkness is just so much more simpler to play combined with a higher survivability and more team orientated bonuses without a significant dps loss if geared correctly. The other trees are not broken though Deception can use some love. Darkness is just so much smoother, easier, and you can live long enough to feel like you accomplish something. In essence, Deception for hit and run, Madness for dps, and Darkness for epeen.

Too much focus on total damage/heals = ridiculously short sighted and moronic statements such as DECEPTION TREE SUCKS AND NO ONE CARES. No the problem is your focus and playstyle do not lend itself to the that tree. Personally the only tree I don't like is Madness because it's ugly and clunky. I hate death field with a passion!

well put i agree with pretty much everything u say,

my one qualm is that our best spec is the easiest one. ive been tank the last few weeks chekin out the greener grass, and honestly im gettin bored fast of tank spec, while balance and infil to me are super fun.

im happy with our class over all we have 1 viable possible OP spec in tank, then the other 2 are both semi-viable if you need their respective roles (burster and true dpser). much better then some others from what ive seen. at least all 3 are usable in pvp.

well put buddy hopfully this will stop some of the false info and trolling, but knowing forums in general it is doubtful.

 

Downside: Complicated rotation, low end survivability, extended ramp up time to burst. The key here is that you have to control the fight. The biggest problem with the Madness tree is no ability to survive if you don't start the fight. The complicated rotation, and clunky deathfield mechanics make this a very tough tree to play. It's not as bad as people say, but it's not fantastic.

That is terrible wrong. You are not an operative to require stealth or be in a disadvantageous position. You are always controlling the fight. You can turn a 1vs2 into 1v1 very easily. You can kill tanks and healers alike.

Deception is terrible in World PVP because you can be killed in 2 stuns.

No it doesn't, don't post ignorant things that'll drive people from trying the Deception tree.

A geared Deception sin in the hands of a good player beats both the other trees 1v1. They drop your health to 50% before you even get up from their spike. Then they have their ramp burst combo off when you finally get up, but are still stunned due to electrocute.

If you're trying the DEC tree, stick with it. Trust me, once your'e geared, and you start seeing chain shocks crit for 2.5- 3.5 dmg, you'll smile. In the meantime, its true that you will have survive-ability problems while your grouped fighiting in WZs

No it doesn't, don't post ignorant things that'll drive people from trying the Deception tree.

 

A geared Deception sin in the hands of a good player beats both the other trees 1v1. They drop your health to 50% before you even get up from their spike. Then they have their ramp burst combo off when you finally get up, but are still stunned due to electrocute.

 

If you're trying the DEC tree, stick with it. Trust me, once your'e geared, and you start seeing chain shocks crit for 2.5- 3.5 dmg, you'll smile. In the meantime, its true that you will have survive-ability problems while your grouped fighiting in WZs

if you're spiking as an opener you're doing it wrong IMO.

Great post OP.

However I disagree about deception ressource mechanic issue.

You effectively get blackout to boist your regen every 45 sec, and unless you maul out of the proc, you can sustain your rotation for quite a while.

Obviously, from 15-sec onward of a fight, both Dark Embrace are down. But you still get back force when Surging Charge proc, and most fight are over or nearly. Imo, there are MANY class that are WAY more ressource starved faster than assassin.

Its main PvE limitation comes imo, that you are forced to use khem as a companion since you need a backstab position ready for when exploit weakness procs and you really cannot take even the slightest beating.

if you're spiking as an opener you're doing it wrong IMO.

Do you know that it's usable only from stealth in 2 other specs? You basically say that the "right" way is to not use it at all.

Deception is terrible in World PVP because you can be killed in 2 stuns.

World pvp is rare these days, it's almost all warzone play now.

Killed in 2 stuns? You do realise we have access to class mitigation abilities such as Force Shroud and Deflection and we have Unbreakable Will if it's up, a CC breaker same as any other class as well as a vanish ability.

I guess it's possible to die in 4 hits to some lucky chain of big crits, but it's hardly a reason to debunk a specific spec as that could equally happen to most classes.

That is terrible wrong. You are not an operative to require stealth or be in a disadvantageous position. You are always controlling the fight. You can turn a 1vs2 into 1v1 very easily. You can kill tanks and healers alike.

You are probably correct. I just found Madness to be Madness when attempting to pvp and play as one. I have yet to run into a really good Madness PVP partner. You have to admit that Death field is extremely clunky and with the speed and constant movement required in pvp Death Field is a great opener, but becomes more difficult to pull off.

Great post OP.

 

However I disagree about deception ressource mechanic issue.

 

You effectively get blackout to boist your regen every 45 sec, and unless you maul out of the proc, you can sustain your rotation for quite a while.

 

Obviously, from 15-sec onward of a fight, both Dark Embrace are down. But you still get back force when Surging Charge proc, and most fight are over or nearly. Imo, there are MANY class that are WAY more ressource starved faster than assassin.

 

Its main PvE limitation comes imo, that you are forced to use khem as a companion since you need a backstab position ready for when exploit weakness procs and you really cannot take even the slightest beating.

You may disagree, but compared to Madness and Darkness. Our Energy Recovery has to be micro managed especially in extended fights. VSx2 to shock with a force slow to prevent a runner combined with a maul than remembering to pool your energy so you don't lose it all when you have to stun.

In PVE, it's a little easier because you can use a base rotation and use Blackout on CD.

Do you know that it's usable only from stealth in 2 other specs? You basically say that the "right" way is to not use it at all.

Haha, yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Maybe he thinks you should vanish mid fight to use Spike.

Haha, yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Maybe he thinks you should vanish mid fight to use Spike.

Yeah, I agree, vanishing mid fight to respike is a bad idea unless it's World PvP. It's best to save Force Cloak for escaping.

Spike should never be used unless it's against a Merc Healer or to knock someone off somewhere. You're using 30 Force + 1 GCD to make the enemy lose 1 GCD and give him half a bar of resolve. It doesn't matter what spec you're in, this is a deal that makes using Maul at 50 Force look good unless the stun/knockback somehow eliminated the enemy (i.e. you knocked him into a fire pit).

I never thought about the last part. I generally only spike to stop a healer if I have nothing else up. or I will Cloak - spike if I am being chased.

You may disagree, but compared to Madness and Darkness. Our Energy Recovery has to be micro managed especially in extended fights. VSx2 to shock with a force slow to prevent a runner combined with a maul than remembering to pool your energy so you don't lose it all when you have to stun.

 

In PVE, it's a little easier because you can use a base rotation and use Blackout on CD.

I cannot comment compared to Madness, but darkness casting full cost shock very often makes it more force starved than Deception in short fight, and I think we can agree if the fight draw on, Deception is in trouble via survivability before being in trouble via force.

Other than a base force regen boost and a small +2 on shielding/sec which Surging Charge more than match, you have much more tools to keep it up than Darkness does.

I find myself using saber strike a lot more in Darkness than I did in Deception. Not arguing that the managing is more complex, but its very doable, and atuned to the spec, in term of being short big burst of regen at the start of the fight.

You are probably correct. I just found Madness to be Madness when attempting to pvp and play as one. I have yet to run into a really good Madness PVP partner. You have to admit that Death field is extremely clunky and with the speed and constant movement required in pvp Death Field is a great opener, but becomes more difficult to pull off.

While I'm the first one to plug hate on the Deathmark/DF force regen mechanic for Madness, DF is not as hard to use mid-combat as you claim but it DOES take quite a bit of practice to fire off as quickly as possible.

I'm not surprised you haven't run into a good Madness PvP partner: it's a very difficult spec to play well and requires a lot of thinking outside the box and shifting priority/utility within the flow of the fight.

I cannot comment compared to Madness, but darkness casting full cost shock very often makes it more force starved than Deception in short fight, and I think we can agree if the fight draw on, Deception is in trouble via survivability before being in trouble via force.

 

Other than a base force regen boost and a small +2 on shielding/sec which Surging Charge more than match, you have much more tools to keep it up than Darkness does.

 

I find myself using saber strike a lot more in Darkness than I did in Deception. Not arguing that the managing is more complex, but its very doable, and atuned to the spec, in term of being short big burst of regen at the start of the fight.

How are you force starving as Darkness? it's Whither/shock- Force lightning when HD is up. You shouldn't really be thrashing, and Discharge on CD. Since Shock is not spammable and FL is still the most efficient usage of your energy as it recovers whatever you lost while it's channeling. You should almost never run out of energy. Granted the occassional Saber strike is needed, but if you stick to the 1, 2, 3, FL. You should be okay.

How are you force starving as Darkness? it's Whither/shock- Force lightning when HD is up. You shouldn't really be thrashing, and Discharge on CD. Since Shock is not spammable and FL is still the most efficient usage of your energy as it recovers whatever you lost while it's channeling. You should almost never run out of energy. Granted the occassional Saber strike is needed, but if you stick to the 1, 2, 3, FL. You should be okay.

Agreed thrashing will quicken thing, but even without :

Shock (45 force) wither (30 force) shock ( 45 force) FL (30 force) (regen compensate that last one)

Past the opening rotation, you will always need a saber strike before the 2nd shock, and one in between that shock and FL. When their CD is up, you will also need to spend 2 sec of regen on discharge and Dark Ward.

It effectively gets pause in the chain. Deception rotation in comparison:

Voltaic slash (25 force) x 2 ->shock (23 force talent reduced) ->discharge (20 force)

In the part of the fight crucial to deception, they have dark embrace on and regen 10 force on surging proc. In a basic rotation your normally have 2 going in average, including the maul that will proc somewhere.

There is much less need for saber strike in between attacks.

Agreed thrashing will quicken thing, but even without :

 

Shock (45 force) wither (30 force) shock ( 45 force) FL (30 force) (regen compensate that last one)

 

Past the opening rotation, you will always need a saber strike before the 2nd shock, and one in between that shock and FL. When their CD is up, you will also need to spend 2 sec of regen on discharge and Dark Ward.

 

It effectively gets pause in the chain. Deception rotation in comparison:

 

Voltaic slash (25 force) x 2 ->shock (23 force talent reduced) ->discharge (20 force)

 

In the part of the fight crucial to deception, they have dark embrace on and regen 10 force on surging proc. In a basic rotation your normally have 2 going in average, including the maul that will proc somewhere.

 

There is much less need for saber strike in between attacks.

You got me on this one. In the initial opening our energy is significantly better than Darkness or Madness. With Blackout we do have a better one. Thanks for pointing that out.

still cant help myself laughing abit when ppl try to make deception sound hard.

Otherwise a decent sumup of Sins.

still cant help myself laughing abit when ppl try to make deception sound hard.

 

Otherwise a decent sumup of Sins.

Its not hard per say. But you do have a few thing to manage, and many people seem to fail with assassin for some reason.

The rotation is very straight forward, if you don't maul out of the proc, force will last you aplenty. I think people fail at target prioritizing or simply do not gear khem well, so he goes down too fast. And deception depends on a tank much more than many DPS class.