This is situation is getting ridiculous the lower the population drops. Premades are all well and good when you have enough people that can play, but not with a low population.

 

The matchmaking puts full pug teams against premades. Then only puts 2 good players and 6 low skilled players on the pug side and the premade has 4 good players that can carry 4 less skilled players.

 

What’s really pissing me off today is there are 4 premades in the queue and they aren’t getting matched against each other. Only against full pug team. 2 of them are from the same guild.

 

At least without the match making we had a chance to get enough good players on a pug team to compete against premades. But when the matchmaking spreads out all the good pug players so there are 2 per team to carry 6 people, usually against a premade, it’s a *********** stupid system.

 

Either :

 

Fix the matchmaking

Remove the matchmaking

Remove or limit premade sizes

Or Only match premades vs premades

 

I don’t care which, but pvp is not fun under these circumstances. I’m sure I’m not the only pug who feels this way.

Are there really that many premades left? I mean, i ran one of the more notorious premading guilds until BW killed off my guild with their stupid decisions.

Are there really that many premades left? I mean, i ran one of the more notorious premading guilds until BW killed off my guild with their stupid decisions.

 

There are enough in the queue to make it painful. Even if they are the same ones every match. I even tried to requeue to break the rotation together and I get the other premades.

 

I’ve left 7 matches so far to try and break the queue rotation with them. Doesn’t work when there aren’t enough people in the queue. So it puts one premade per match against full pugs. How about putting the 4 premades against each other or put one on each team.

 

I have good days and bad days depending on how many are in the queue. Today is a terrible day and it makes me want to never pvp in this game again. 16 losses straight so far and 2 matches not against a premade. It’s also killing the queue numbers. I’ve had other people saying in matches they are going to stop queuing till the premades **** off.

 

I didn’t use to have an issue with premades or I didn’t before this abortive matchmaking that doesn’t *********** work.

At least before you could get good pug teams and find some players you can premade with yourself if there are guild premades about. But how do you find them when there are only ever a maximum of 2 on your team who have a clue and want to win.

 

I’ve been saying from day one when the matchmaking was added that it was broken and got told it wasn’t. I predicted this is where it would end up and I was right.

It’s no wonder more and more people stop playing pvp on a daily basis and hence the game. It’s just another of the multitude of pvp **** ups Bioware have made since 5.0 that have driven pvpers from the game.

Half the time I can’t even be bothered queueing. I get on, craft, list and log off again. That’s if I can be bothered logging in at all.

Edited January 18, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

It’s basically killed the queue. Now I’m waiting 10-20mins a pop on SF. I can only imagine how bad it is on SS.

 

At least remove premades in 4v4 pugs. Common. The queue has died to the 4v4 pop stage and it’s still pugs vs premades. THAT IS WHY THE QUEUE DIES.

Edited January 18, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

You do realize that, assuming you are waiting that long for matches, seperating out premades makes it worse, right?

 

If there are only enough people in the queue to make a match involving the premade, taking it out means you have to wait even longer (or get the constant stream of arenas).

 

What you seem to be experiencing is a population issue.

This is situation is getting ridiculous the lower the population drops. Premades are all well and good when you have enough people that can play, but not with a low population.

 

The matchmaking puts full pug teams against premades. Then only puts 2 good players and 6 low skilled players on the pug side and the premade has 4 good players that can carry 4 less skilled players.

 

What’s really pissing me off today is there are 4 premades in the queue and they aren’t getting matched against each other. Only against full pug team. 2 of them are from the same guild.

 

At least without the match making we had a chance to get enough good players on a pug team to compete against premades. But when the matchmaking spreads out all the good pug players so there are 2 per team to carry 6 people, usually against a premade, it’s a *********** stupid system.

 

Either :

 

Fix the matchmaking

Remove the matchmaking

Remove or limit premade sizes

Or Only match premades vs premades

 

I don’t care which, but pvp is not fun under these circumstances. I’m sure I’m not the only pug who feels this way.

 

Haha i was waiting when people will finally notice where the problem is. I noticed it from the very begining: if a full premade group is queueing, pug players with high "hidden elo" will ALWAYS be puted against premade because matchmaking puts high elo premade against 1-2 high elo players. As a result premades always winning and skilled players with high elo always loosing because premades can indeed carry other part of their group while 1-2 high elo players can't carry a group of 6-7 players.

 

The whole system of current matchmaking and cross faction warzones DESTROYED regs both in lore and fair games. As OP said, at least in the past skilled players had a 50% chance to get in one group with a premade

Edited January 18, 2019 by bladech

Someone needs to explain to me how getting rid of up to 25% of the potential queue is going to help queue times. Removing more players from the game in order to improve queue times? I hope you all realize that further hindering player choice is not going to attract more players.

This is situation is getting ridiculous the lower the population drops. Premades are all well and good when you have enough people that can play, but not with a low population.

 

The matchmaking puts full pug teams against premades. Then only puts 2 good players and 6 low skilled players on the pug side and the premade has 4 good players that can carry 4 less skilled players.

 

What’s really pissing me off today is there are 4 premades in the queue and they aren’t getting matched against each other. Only against full pug team. 2 of them are from the same guild.

 

At least without the match making we had a chance to get enough good players on a pug team to compete against premades. But when the matchmaking spreads out all the good pug players so there are 2 per team to carry 6 people, usually against a premade, it’s a *********** stupid system.

 

Either :

 

Fix the matchmaking

Remove the matchmaking

Remove or limit premade sizes

Or Only match premades vs premades

 

I don’t care which, but pvp is not fun under these circumstances. I’m sure I’m not the only pug who feels this way.

 

Why do you care? You just said yesterday that you were done with this game and were quitting?!?!?!

 

 

But seriously, there's been a thread discussing pugs vs premades since the game released almost 8 years ago. If they were going to do something about all of it than they would have by now. Even if they did something now, the game PvP population has dwindled to the point where removing premade groups would all but kill off any decent queue times.

It’s basically killed the queue. Now I’m waiting 10-20mins a pop on SF. I can only imagine how bad it is on SS.

 

At least remove premades in 4v4 pugs. Common. The queue has died to the 4v4 pop stage and it’s still pugs vs premades. THAT IS WHY THE QUEUE DIES.

 

1. You either play on dead servers

 

2. You long in in the wrong times and that's why your que is dead...

 

I keep reading this population getting lower things from you and not sure if you serious.... In Europe the level 70 que is full of people and pops are quite frequent.

The matchmaking system should be tweaked to put pre-mades agains other pre-mades. That way no one has to change the way they play.

 

I que solo heals often, and the problems with the current system are obvious. I end up back-filling more often than not, and a solo-healer is not a match for a healer in a pre-made. You rarely get guards or peels if you solo-que.

 

(I could find friends, yes, but I rarely serial-que since I need a break if it's a long warzone. How many people want to team up for 1, maybe 2 warzones at the most?)

 

Don't get rid of pre-mades, but try to pair pre-mades against other pre-mades. That would help a lot with balancing fights.

It is time for a PVP ignore and, ideally, map select. If the cold dark fingers of premades are dragging you down to the Stygian void, simply ignore the try-not-hard around whom the pre-made fatberg has congealed and find yourself carousing through the sun dappled Elysian Fields of freely unmade PVP

 

"Queue Times" I hear you wail, "Pop Frequency" you gnash through bload foamed teeth, rending your clothing asunder and sobbing your despair to a pitiless heaven.

 

Grab a non gender specific sized tissue, dry your eyes and hear me out whilst I explain that its Really Not That Simple.

 

Oft do I despair of warzone qing. When huttball bores me to the bone; when dps junkies mindlessly burn mid from loss to repetitious loss; when it dawns that I, alone, care to run the objectives; then I leave the match and I leave the q. Without me the q is diminished and the pops ease lazily out into the long abyssal dark. And I am not alone. We, the unpremade, drift away and the premades are left to, as the saying almost goes, open the window and love the night.

 

Some Maths. If I get a pop every 2 minutes but I have to quit on 2 out of 3 of matches then my queue time was actually 6 minutes. If I can ignore the premades then my q time may indeed double to 4 minutes but 4 is less than 6 and, which is more, my games will all be deep and soft and warm and I will yet again defer slumber for just .. one... more.

 

And people already leave maps or makeups they dislike. The only difference between /mapquit and /ignore is that the latter is less irksome on the zone-ins and avoids the most heinous backfilling tragedies as the server desperately scrabbles down the back of the sofa trying to find a replacement for a quitting healer, fishes out a bewildered sticky, fluff covered Pyro PT and furtively sneaks them in, hoping noone will notice.

 

Obviously this wouldn't apply to ranked matches. We cannot bear any suggestion that the deplorables might exploit an ignore system to acquire undeserved ELO. Even the notion of such a thing is offensive to us all. Much divides us but on this we can unite. ELO remains the true and perfect measure of skill. Ranked remains an honourable place where a bunch of rankers rank hard to rank high.

 

I'd also look kindly upon PVP-ignores timing out after a suitable time. I am old and I've stopped caring and I gratefully forget why I've ignored people so I'm content with giving them another chance to win my tolerance. Maybe they've changed. Maybe I have. Maybe I will now find their capering idiocy deliciously amusing. Probably I wont. But then I get the satisfaction of ignoring them all over again.

 

To that point, I'd also like ignore to be bound to a "Talk to the Hand" animation with the possibility to respond with a 0FG emote. When I ignore someone I want them to KNOW they have been ignored; to feel the desperate abandonment of knowing that I have turned my countenance from them. Also make the number of people ignoring you a tracked reputation so that grinding (un)popularity rep would become a sub game all of its own with different titles tied to different tiers of (un)popularity, from "Cuddlesome Carebear" through to "Noxiously Toxalicious".

 

THIS people, is how we Make SWTOR Great Again.

1. You either play on dead servers

 

2. You long in in the wrong times and that's why your que is dead...

 

I keep reading this population getting lower things from you and not sure if you serious.... In Europe the level 70 que is full of people and pops are quite frequent.

 

I think trixxie has made it pretty obvious by now they're Australian/pacific time oriented. That means that their time is less popular through no fault of their own. If you're going to be insulting, at least be reasonable about it. I'm American and I say this game screwed anyone in Asia/the Pacific region. Business decision, obviously.

It is time for a PVP ignore and, ideally, map select. If the cold dark fingers of premades are dragging you down to the Stygian void, simply ignore the try-not-hard around whom the pre-made fatberg has congealed and find yourself carousing through the sun dappled Elysian Fields of freely unmade PVP

 

"Queue Times" I hear you wail, "Pop Frequency" you gnash through bload foamed teeth, rending your clothing asunder and sobbing your despair to a pitiless heaven.

 

Grab a non gender specific sized tissue, dry your eyes and hear me out whilst I explain that its Really Not That Simple.

 

Oft do I despair of warzone qing. When huttball bores me to the bone; when dps junkies mindlessly burn mid from loss to repetitious loss; when it dawns that I, alone, care to run the objectives; then I leave the match and I leave the q. Without me the q is diminished and the pops ease lazily out into the long abyssal dark. And I am not alone. We, the unpremade, drift away and the premades are left to, as the saying almost goes, open the window and love the night.

 

Some Maths. If I get a pop every 2 minutes but I have to quit on 2 out of 3 of matches then my queue time was actually 6 minutes. If I can ignore the premades then my q time may indeed double to 4 minutes but 4 is less than 6 and, which is more, my games will all be deep and soft and warm and I will yet again defer slumber for just .. one... more.

 

And people already leave maps or makeups they dislike. The only difference between /mapquit and /ignore is that the latter is less irksome on the zone-ins and avoids the most heinous backfilling tragedies as the server desperately scrabbles down the back of the sofa trying to find a replacement for a quitting healer, fishes out a bewildered sticky, fluff covered Pyro PT and furtively sneaks them in, hoping noone will notice.

 

Obviously this wouldn't apply to ranked matches. We cannot bear any suggestion that the deplorables might exploit an ignore system to acquire undeserved ELO. Even the notion of such a thing is offensive to us all. Much divides us but on this we can unite. ELO remains the true and perfect measure of skill. Ranked remains an honourable place where a bunch of rankers rank hard to rank high.

 

I'd also look kindly upon PVP-ignores timing out after a suitable time. I am old and I've stopped caring and I gratefully forget why I've ignored people so I'm content with giving them another chance to win my tolerance. Maybe they've changed. Maybe I have. Maybe I will now find their capering idiocy deliciously amusing. Probably I wont. But then I get the satisfaction of ignoring them all over again.

 

To that point, I'd also like ignore to be bound to a "Talk to the Hand" animation with the possibility to respond with a 0FG emote. When I ignore someone I want them to KNOW they have been ignored; to feel the desperate abandonment of knowing that I have turned my countenance from them. Also make the number of people ignoring you a tracked reputation so that grinding (un)popularity rep would become a sub game all of its own with different titles tied to different tiers of (un)popularity, from "Cuddlesome Carebear" through to "Noxiously Toxalicious".

 

THIS people, is how we Make SWTOR Great Again.

 

I actually like this idea, in fact it's been brought up before I believe I even mentioned once in a thread, lol.

 

Ignoring people for PVP, that way you could avoid trolls in ranked, or avoid immature troglodytes that go AFK everytime they are in a WZ especially when they start to lose.

 

I believe a PVP ignore function would be awesome. Plus, you could ignore the guys you always get wrecked by, leaving you in queues with only those you can wreck! 10/10.

Someone needs to explain to me how getting rid of up to 25% of the potential queue is going to help queue times. Removing more players from the game in order to improve queue times? I hope you all realize that further hindering player choice is not going to attract more players.

 

Easy...4 people that premade, queue solo, find a pair of balls and do a wz. Back in the day pub side had to premade on Progenitor to even have a chance.

 

4 man premade is too much. Of course people in 4 man don't see anything wrong with that. They laugh in guild chat, how they stomped someone or globaled someone...but when they play solo or duo-queue...those *****es leave wz in first 2 min of game, if it doesn't go their way from start.

 

4 man premade with proper team set up...tank,heal 2 dps...or even heal 2 dps and dwt....vs pug team, who doesn't have healer and they are done. And then pug side members leave wz, creates 8v7...snowballs game further into premade favour...etc.

 

Duo-q is not a problem...if I play tank I'd q with a healer and vice versa...but I don't play tank or heal these days in wz.

Oh and someone said something about crossfaction....crossfaction is the best thing that happened to pvp. It should've been there from start...**** the lore for pvp...IT'S PVP:..THEY EVEN HAD CROSSFACTION IN THEIR TRAILERS...not sure,but did they have it even in operations? Probably not,but I know they had it in pvp trailrers. Or at least it looked like team had pubs and imps on same team. Either way...crossfaction is the best thing that happened to pvp.

Easy...4 people that premade, queue solo, find a pair of balls and do a wz. Back in the day pub side had to premade on Progenitor to even have a chance.

 

Well i used to run a pvp guild. The pvp changes chased off about 5 of my regulars and the recent dumb decisions with 5.10 killed off the rest.

 

Note i didn't say they decided to face the masses of idiots queueing. However you view it, they quit the game rather than play with the average pug.

 

And by the way, most of these people were found via the fsct that we never left matches just because i was not with an 8 man premade. We saw someone do good, we asked if they wanted a ginvite.

 

So no, requiring solo queues would not result in a mass increase of solo queuers. The premaders would most likely just quit playing. Or find some way to manipulate the system.

I think trixxie has made it pretty obvious by now they're Australian/pacific time oriented. That means that their time is less popular through no fault of their own. If you're going to be insulting, at least be reasonable about it. I'm American and I say this game screwed anyone in Asia/the Pacific region. Business decision, obviously.

 

I wasn't insulting him...

 

I just pointed out 2 possible reasons why he is seeing low population. I had the same " problem" when I started playing on US servers 4 years ago.

and they aren’t getting matched against each other.

 

I begin to wonder now if they have used a way to make the game act like this. A bug, maybe ?

QUOTE:

Don't get rid of pre-mades, but try to pair pre-mades against other pre-mades. That would help a lot with balancing fights.

This

Edited January 19, 2019 by macmachado

Sadly the game is at a point where they can never seriously consider altering the queue where it might slow pops.

 

Secondly, people have railed against premades being with pugs since the beginning of SWTOR wzs, even when the population was booming, they never installed a queue that would split premades from the pugs. Aint happening now.

 

I think Trixxie is more venting than expecting an actual change regarding premades and pugs.

Someone needs to explain to me how getting rid of up to 25% of the potential queue is going to help queue times. Removing more players from the game in order to improve queue times? I hope you all realize that further hindering player choice is not going to attract more players.

 

I might or have explained it properly. I certainly don’t want to get rid of 25% of the potential queue. I just want it to work fairly and the match making to work properly or get rid of it.

 

If you have 4 premades in a queue, then put them in two matches, one on each team. Don’t spread them out over four matches with one premade on one side and all pugs on the other.

 

If they removed the matchmaking and just kept the healer/tank role limits per match, then the premades wouldn’t end up being as nasty.

 

A matchmaking system that treats a 4 man premade the same as 1-2 good players on the other team isn’t matchmaking at all.

Four average to good players in a premade can carry 4 bad players. But it’s impossible for 1-2 good players to carry 6-7 bad players. You can only be in so many places at once to hold their hands.

I think trixxie has made it pretty obvious by now they're Australian/pacific time oriented. That means that their time is less popular through no fault of their own. If you're going to be insulting, at least be reasonable about it. I'm American and I say this game screwed anyone in Asia/the Pacific region. Business decision, obviously.

 

Thank you Kendra.

 

Also I do play during US primetimes about 3-4 times a week. I’ve even checked out DM to see how the pvp population is and it seems a little healthy than SF and lot healthier than SS.

 

I think our EU players forget that there are two English servers in the US when there should probably only be one.

I begin to wonder now if they have used a way to make the game act like this. A bug, maybe ?

 

I’ve been saying it since it was introduced that it was bugged. Everyone told me it wasn’t, but I was tracking it and seeing exactly this back then.

It’s just more apparent now because the population has dropped enough to notice it more.

The matchmaking doesn’t work and never has. BioWare refuse to tell us exactly how it works and I think the reason is they know it’s bugged and can’t be bothered to fix it.

Well i used to run a pvp guild. The pvp changes chased off about 5 of my regulars and the recent dumb decisions with 5.10 killed off the rest.

 

Note i didn't say they decided to face the masses of idiots queueing. However you view it, they quit the game rather than play with the average pug.

 

And by the way, most of these people were found via the fsct that we never left matches just because i was not with an 8 man premade. We saw someone do good, we asked if they wanted a ginvite.

 

So no, requiring solo queues would not result in a mass increase of solo queuers. The premaders would most likely just quit playing. Or find some way to manipulate the system.

 

I don't even know what you are going on about. I have no problem with q pops. I get a q pop within a minute or two of my q...I do a wz,q again and same thing...fast q pops,playing solo...I rarely leave a wz.(probably would be less than 20 in all my time of playing this game from launch...with on and off)..I played on Progenitor,where pub side had 4-6 players vs full 8 imps....what "fun" and one sided those wz's were.

 

People who use excuse that they wanna play with their friends can go play ranked arenas. Solo q is in it's name a SOLO q...like I said duo q is not a problem,but when 4 people premade with a proper team set up..even worse if those pathetic people use voice comms for SWTOR....it's clear to me,that those who premade suck as solo players and blame everyone else and think they are some sort of elite. Like I said...I saw guild chats,where they laugh how they globaled someone,but when they duo q or solo they leave like *****ed in first 2min of game,just because it doesn't go exactly as they want. Trash is trash.

 

Sure BW has some fault in this,but people who preamde drove other people away from pvp,because those who play solo don't wanna face scrub premades all the time.

Also if people wanna do wz's and not just arenas,can have guild vs guild matches now. But you won't see many of those,because trash premades will get stomped and stop playing that and go to solo q,where they play vs pug teams.

 

And of course trash needs to find a way to manipulate the system...just proves my point..trash is trash...find a pair of balls and play solo q SOLO or at very least duo q.

I don't even know what you are going on about. I have no problem with q pops. I get a q pop within a minute or two of my q...I do a wz,q again and same thing...fast q pops,playing solo...I rarely leave a wz.(probably would be less than 20 in all my time of playing this game from launch...with on and off)..I played on Progenitor,where pub side had 4-6 players vs full 8 imps....what "fun" and one sided those wz's were.

read the paragraph you quoted. my point on queue pops was to trixxie, who has a time zone issue. you obviously do not.

People who use excuse that they wanna play with their friends can go play ranked arenas. Solo q is in it's name a SOLO q...like I said duo q is not a problem,but when 4 people premade with a proper team set up..even worse if those pathetic people use voice comms for SWTOR....it's clear to me,that those who premade suck as solo players and blame everyone else and think they are some sort of elite. Like I said...I saw guild chats,where they laugh how they globaled someone,but when they duo q or solo they leave like *****ed in first 2min of game,just because it doesn't go exactly as they want. Trash is trash.

Last time I checked the name was unranked. meaning not intended to be ranked. I also despise ranked, because it is dependent on having people who play not just the right roles, but the right classes too. I can't just pick the first 4 people on and go with it. Besides what, I also solo queued frequently. Just having run a pvp guild, I can see both sides.

 

Sure BW has some fault in this,but people who preamde drove other people away from pvp,because those who play solo don't wanna face scrub premades all the time.

Also if people wanna do wz's and not just arenas,can have guild vs guild matches now. But you won't see many of those,because trash premades will get stomped and stop playing that and go to solo q,where they play vs pug teams.

guild v guild matches that count for nothing. Why would I play something for no reason? And, sure, of all the things that drove people from pvp it's premades. That's like saying the mat farmers ran people from ranked (hint: what has happened to ranked now that the mat farmers are gone?)

And of course trash needs to find a way to manipulate the system...just proves my point..trash is trash...find a pair of balls and play solo q SOLO or at very least duo q.

I do solo queue, and frequently ( well when I was playing regularly). Not many of my guildies were around on sunday mornings somehow. But sure, operate in your tiny bubble where only your perspective matters.

 

Since you seem to have missed it, the logical flow of the previous conversation we had was:

premades are imbalanced --> make them solo queue, which increases the number of players in the queue --> the premaders would rather not pvp than solo queue --> banning premades means premaders quit rather than solo queue.