1. Shadow

4. Commando

 

-Pros: None, in comparison to other DPS and healer classes... commando is the least viable for both.

 

-Cons: Lack of defense and burst.

 

The above quote got me wondering about rated WZ team composition. If you regularly play on a rated WZ team, please post the typical team composition if you expect you are queuing against a competitive team. If you run several different compositions, please list them all.

 

If you would throw out some compositions when facing your strongest opposition, say so.

 

In the course of this exercise (if we get a reasonable sample) we can answer the question "does ANYONE run a competitive RWZ team with a commando"?

Healer possibly and only if they are super awesome, and the dps they have around them can peel and kill opponents before they die. I knew a Merc healer, Ca'tra one of the most amazing healers I have known. He doesn't play anymore but I know some ranked teams used to use them if they were healers.

mercs aren't that bad in rateds

 

it's really the same thing with sorcs - in theory they are easy to interrupt and shut down due to their reliance on procs, but in practice you can't just consistently shut them down if the opposing team is working together. They are certainly more prone to it than every other dps, but if working together they can put out enough damage/heals to be more than competitive enough.

 

it's kind of the same argument a lot of people resign to when they talk to me about assassin dps - marauders and powertechs may be easier to dps with which is why they are more commonly seen - but if played to the class' maximum potential they are more than competitive.

 

I really don't have a problem with mercs, be they heals or dps. If healing, they are damn near impossible to kill compared to operatives and sorcs. DPS may lack the instant burst we see with smash/wakajinn/pyrotech, but they still can apply more pressure than sorcs/lethality snipers.

 

On the Bastion, commando Season and merc Kand have more than proved that the class is hardly as gimped as people say it is. It may not be a pugstomper like some other classes, but if the player and the rest of his/her team is skilled the class is quite fine imo.

 

 

 

as for what I think the overall "best" composition is....well here's what I like

 

Heal sorc (bubblestun)

Heal operative

 

DPS assassin (0/27/14 wakajinn...switch to the appropriate tank spec/gear when needed)

DPS marauder (smash)

DPS sniper (depends on map and situation, lethality best for overall consistent damage, switching to engineering in certain cases)

DPS powertech (pyrotech...I only choose this over another assassin/marauder for the pull/taunts, respectively)

 

Tank juggernaut (hybrid)

Tank/node guarding assassin (23/1/17)

 

 

 

in cases where bubblestun/smash are banned (which is thankfully becoming a popular agreement on my server, The Bastion) I wouldn't change up the comp....just run a puddle healing sorc and a carnage marauder instead.

Edited February 15, 2013 by EatenByDistance

DPS assassin (0/27/14 wakajinn...switch to the appropriate tank spec/gear when needed)

 

Don't you think it would be more viable to run a DPS jug with smash as it is right now?

 

Can still tank or hybrid for the huttballs and voidstar defenses... and any given player will likely put up a ton more DPS as a smash jug vs a DPS assassin.

 

Like you said... "playing to full potential" but even if the best assassin was given a rage jug I would put money on it that they would put up far more DPS as a jug.

 

Or do you favor the assassin for the single target burst which we all know is key in competitive PvP?

Edited February 15, 2013 by UGLYMRJ

8 operatives

The above quote got me wondering about rated WZ team composition. If you regularly play on a rated WZ team, please post the typical team composition if you expect you are queuing against a competitive team. If you run several different compositions, please list them all.

 

If you would throw out some compositions when facing your strongest opposition, say so.

 

In the course of this exercise (if we get a reasonable sample) we can answer the question "does ANYONE run a competitive RWZ team with a commando"?

 

There's the obvious...

 

Tanks: jug and sin

Heals: sorc and op

 

The not so obvious...

 

DPS we play with a lot of different set ups but the comps I prefer and the server seems to prefer is a mix of PT's, snipers, jugs and marauders. With a minimum of one marauder and one sniper and IMO one PT. Which basically means that the 4th spot can be played with (even the PT spot can be switched, I just prefer a PT for single target burst and utility). From what I've seen, different things work for different maps. For a map like voidstar obviously it would be preferred to have a jug fill that DPS spot but for civil war I would prefer a sniper.

 

That's the way I see it... short version anyways.

 

And no... no one is really running commandos or mercs. I've seen people do it... I've seen people win doing it. But I doubt any competitive PvP guild would say that they would prefer a commando or merc over any one of the other DPS classes I listed.

Edited February 15, 2013 by UGLYMRJ

We usually run these setups

 

1 sage bubble stun

1 scoundrel heals

1 guardian tank

2 shadows

2 vanguards

1 sentinel

 

or

 

1 sage bubble stun

1 scoundrel heals

1 guardian tank

1 shadow

2 vanguards

2 sentinels

 

Sometimes there's a sage dps aswell.

Don't you think it would be more viable to run a DPS jug with smash as it is right now?

 

Can still tank or hybrid for the huttballs and voidstar defenses... and any given player will likely put up a ton more DPS as a smash jug vs a DPS assassin.

 

Like you said... "playing to full potential" but even if the best assassin was given a rage jug I would put money on it that they would put up far more DPS as a jug.

 

Or do you favor the assassin for the single target burst which we all know is key in competitive PvP?

 

2 juggernauts is worse than 2 assassin in huttball. the entire point of huttball is to get the ball to your tank juggernaut. From there you simply need to keep him alive. He should be able to carry the ball on his own or die trying. In high level games you can't afford to pass very often because of intercepts so having that second jugg tank is kind of pointless If you're at the point where your juggernaut can't carry the ball you have a whole different problem on your hands.

 

meanwhile 2 assassins....one can stand in endzone for the juggernaut intercede while the other camps mid in stealth waiting to get the ball. It is best to have the endzone assassin leave and go to mid while the juggernaut waits to score. Huttball is all about control of mid so having two stealher, knockbacking and shrouding tanks is way more important than having a second juggernaut which won't even make a difference.

 

also the extra pull is incredible in huttball.

 

 

for voidstar offense smash is all around better dps yes, but that alone does not validate it over assassin in the average team comp. Meanwhile on defense assassin's wither debuff is amazing for the clusterfawk of aoe damage that will be going on. Also they can stealth out to sap when rest of team is dying, can rotate faster...and it means you have 2 stealthed node guarders which is invaluable.

 

Assuming both players are given an equal amount of time actually doing damage, wakajinn is gonna put out around the same or more numbers. Now that I've been dpsing rated quite frequently, the ONLY thing that outdamages me (given equal time doing damage) are lethality snipers and a lot of that is inconsequential dot damage so w\e...In general when the damage and pressure is being put out it is about the same....but assassins can do it more frequently and we have much better CC so that's another thing

 

 

so tl;dr assuming the skill is there I do think dps assassins can be a key component of a rated team due to their damage and pressure being equal at worst (usually better in my experiences) than any other spec....and their cc/ability to switch to tank. If a guild doesn't have an assassin that has, to be blunt, the skill to do it that is a whole different story but yeah

in cases where bubblestun/smash are banned (which is thankfully becoming a popular agreement on my server.

 

Interesting, is this random or something the top rated guilds are doing?

so tl;dr assuming the skill is there I do think dps assassins can be a key component of a rated team due to their damage and pressure being equal at worst (usually better in my experiences) than any other spec....and their cc/ability to switch to tank. If a guild doesn't have an assassin that has, to be blunt, the skill to do it that is a whole different story but yeah

 

Makes sense...

 

Given I know you and MVP of course I was definitely curious about what you thought about it. Especially since Synergy is really smash happy and have had some success against you guys recently. I've always leaned towards the jug DPS idea but then again... other than Palm, I can't say we have another DPS assassin that's rated ready to that level of play. But in the end... we've always learned a lot from playing you guys so appreciate the feedback.

 

And I couldn't agree more about the huttball thing with 2 assassins... running against you guys with 2 assassins in huttball makes me want to kick a kitten.

Edited February 15, 2013 by UGLYMRJ

Makes sense...

 

Especially since Synergy is really smash happy and have had some success against you guys recently. I've always leaned towards the jug DPS idea but then again... other than Palm, I can't say we have another DPS assassin that's rated ready to that level of play. But in the end... we've always learned a lot from playing you guys so appreciate the feedback.

 

synergy sometimes runs sifu on his shadow as a dps...That's the only other instance of a good guild using dps sin in rateds that I have personally seen on the bastion...A big issue is simply not having enough players that have the skill/gear to do so. Excluding myself, I would only really consider 3-5 other sins on the bastion being capable of putting out the numbers/being adaptive enough to be considered for a dps team slot

 

like with commandos/sorcs, most people simply don't run them because the general consensus is that they are underpowered...If teams try to innovate and break the meta...ignoring the established standard they will find that what they thought wasn't viable might not be so bad after all...

 

for example, the only class that I don't think has a viable dps spec for rateds is operatives. I believe everything else, from sorcs to assassins to even mercs have the tools necessary to be competitive.

Edited February 15, 2013 by EatenByDistance

Guardian Tank

Shadow node guard

Scoundrel healer (me!)

Sage healer (bubble or not, depending on if we have an agreement)

 

Vanguard DPS (assault, tactics, or shield hybrid depending)

Sentinel (combat)

Guardian (focus)

Gunslinger (MM or DF)

 

We also sometimes run with a scrapper .

Interesting, is this random or something the top rated guilds are doing?

 

Just something a bunch of carebears are doing. Learn to play with the change in meta or get the f*** out. Adapt and move forward.

Just something a bunch of carebears are doing.

 

What I thought when I seen that post...

Interesting, is this random or something the top rated guilds are doing?

 

lots of guilds on a variety of servers are doing this

 

Just something a bunch of carebears are doing. Learn to play with the change in meta or get the f*** out. Adapt and move forward.

lol

 

or people are sick of playing with broken and blatantly overpowered mechanics for needless months on end

 

but w\e u say buddy

Edited February 15, 2013 by EatenByDistance

We usually run these setups

 

1 sage bubble stun

1 scoundrel heals

1 guardian tank

2 shadows

2 vanguards

1 sentinel

 

or

 

1 sage bubble stun

1 scoundrel heals

1 guardian tank

1 shadow

2 vanguards

2 sentinels

 

Sometimes there's a sage dps aswell.

 

Thanks, I hope to see more posts like this (in addition to the interesting tangential discussions).

Team comps:

 

A.

 

1. Op healer

2. Bubble Stun Heal sorc

3. Carnage Mara

4. Pyro Pt

5. Pyro Pt

6. Jugg immo/venge hybrid

7. Tankasin

8. Tankasin or Sniper or Smash (pref smash jugg)

 

B.

 

1. Op Healer

3. Op healer

4. Bubble Stun Sorc (pref healing)

5. Carnage Mara

6. Smash jugg

7. Tankasin

8. Tankasin

 

If you can get an EPIC DPS hybrid (lightning/madness) That can play as a utility and keep doing AOE DPS between throwing bubbles and cleanses on people.

 

or people are sick of playing with broken and blatantly overpowered mechanics for needless months on end

 

What conversation takes please before the match?

 

"Hey guys could you please put down the smash and the bubble, k thanks"

 

lol!

lots of guilds on a variety of servers are doing this

 

 

lol

 

or people are sick of playing with broken and blatantly overpowered mechanics for needless months on end

 

but w\e u say buddy

 

All I read is "Can we hold hands while we pvp?!"

What conversation takes please before the match?

 

"Hey guys could you please put down the smash and the bubble, k thanks"

 

lol!

 

more or less, yes

 

All I read is "Can we hold hands while we pvp?!"

dumb

Edited February 15, 2013 by EatenByDistance

more or less, yes

 

 

dumb

 

Dumb because what? You don't know how to play around a game mechanic?

Dumb because what? You don't know how to play around a game mechanic?

 

Because everyone on both sides is tired of it. Bubble stun makes the game not fun. Period. So if we can get teams to play without it, great. And if we have to use it, we use it. But it has pretty much gotten to the point where everyone and their mother is tired of the smash and stun BS. So we avoid it.

 

We get that you internet heroes on pot5 are the gods of pvp and never ever have issues with bubblestuns and lolsmashers and the rest because your all just that good. Really, we get it. (Sarcasm off) Really tired of having basically every post from someone on your server trying to prove that everyone else sucks. It's gotten old.

Because everyone on both sides is tired of it. Bubble stun makes the game not fun. Period. So if we can get teams to play without it, great. And if we have to use it, we use it. But it has pretty much gotten to the point where everyone and their mother is tired of the smash and stun BS. So we avoid it.

 

We get that you internet heroes on pot5 are the gods of pvp and never ever have issues with bubblestuns and lolsmashers and the rest because your all just that good. Really, we get it. (Sarcasm off) Really tired of having basically every post from someone on your server trying to prove that everyone else sucks. It's gotten old.

 

I dislike bubblestun. If it was caster only I'd have no issue with it. Now it's just rolling the dice if I see a sorc if it's bubble or not.

Because everyone on both sides is tired of it. Bubble stun makes the game not fun. Period. So if we can get teams to play without it, great. And if we have to use it, we use it. But it has pretty much gotten to the point where everyone and their mother is tired of the smash and stun BS. So we avoid it.

 

We get that you internet heroes on pot5 are the gods of pvp and never ever have issues with bubblestuns and lolsmashers and the rest because your all just that good. Really, we get it. (Sarcasm off) Really tired of having basically every post from someone on your server trying to prove that everyone else sucks. It's gotten old.

 

You guys prove that you suck by being doing carebearing activities like this little debate is about. If you can't work around the abilities you're doing something wrong.

You guys prove that you suck by being doing carebearing activities like this little debate is about. If you can't work around the abilities you're doing something wrong.

 

Can I be an internet hero too? I wish I was cool enough to be on pot5... Oh wait, I was. And then got bored and left because there was nothing resembling skill while I was there. Dang, this is fun, no wonder ya'll do it.

 

And for the record, we deal with it just fine when we have to.

Edited February 15, 2013 by RankorSSGS