Maybe the Old Republic depicts Jedi in a different time period, but do you think that most JEdi seem to break the code?

 

specifically this code: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Code

The Jedi Code never made sense to me. How can you not have emotion, and still say that you are empathetic or compassionate? Not to mention that to deny your emotions in their entirety is to turn yourself into an automaton, and exclude many of the emotions that are considered good and redeeming.

 

Of course, when you take either code literally, neither of them makes sense.

The Jedi Code never made sense to me. How can you not have emotion, and still say that you are empathetic or compassionate? Not to mention that to deny your emotions in their entirety is to turn yourself into an automaton, and exclude many of the emotions that are considered good and redeeming.

 

Of course, when you take either code literally, neither of them makes sense.

 

The jedi are pretty much hypocrites when you get right down to it. They constantly position themselves as "peacekeepers" while simultaneously serving as the reason for half the conflicts the Republic runs into. I pretty much get the impression that the majority of jedi are like normal people with religion. Sure the holy teachings emphasizes peace and if they are in temple they might even heed their own supposed beliefs but out in the real world they really only marginally observe the code. Usually the jedi you run into are either very preachy (usually the ones who just got out of training or the masters) or they are much more lax with their beliefs. (even going so far as to work with you even though you are a sith)

 

The only core tennant that Jedi seem to hold to is their general mistrust of the sith.

It's all in the translation. I prefer the translation "emotion, yet peace" to "there is no emotion, there is peace"

 

The second sounds like it's being said by a robot. The former implies self-control to the absolute of the second.

 

(mocking tone) Obi-Wan - "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

"There is no emotion, there is peace."

/end tone.

 

Of course there is emotion! The point is to be the master of your emotions. The Dark Side does not own a monopoly on emotions. They've got fear, hatred, anger, lust, envy, arrogance and greed down pretty good. The problem with the Jedi is that they think they need to be in an emotional grey zone to be good Jedi, but they're missing the balance. It's not the lack of emotions they need to seek, but the positive emotions: love, forgiveness, trust, charity, honor, joy, gratitude, hope, pride, humor and kindness.

 

It's being able to be at peace with your actions that the Jedi should seek, not a state of emotionless peace. The Sith destroy their emotional distractions or turn them into rage to fuel their self-destructive force. The Jedi need to embrace their positive attributes, not repress them.

 

That's the flaw with the interpretation of the Jedi Code.

It's all in the translation. I prefer the translation "emotion, yet peace" to "there is no emotion, there is peace"

 

The second sounds like it's being said by a robot. The former implies self-control to the absolute of the second.

 

(mocking tone) Obi-Wan - "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

"There is no emotion, there is peace."

/end tone.

 

Of course there is emotion! The point is to be the master of your emotions. The Dark Side does not own a monopoly on emotions. They've got fear, hatred, anger, lust, envy, arrogance and greed down pretty good. The problem with the Jedi is that they think they need to be in an emotional grey zone to be good Jedi, but they're missing the balance. It's not the lack of emotions they need to seek, but the positive emotions: love, forgiveness, trust, charity, honor, joy, gratitude, hope, pride, humor and kindness.

 

It's being able to be at peace with your actions that the Jedi should seek, not a state of emotionless peace. The Sith destroy their emotional distractions or turn them into rage to fuel their self-destructive force. The Jedi need to embrace their positive attributes, not repress them.

 

That's the flaw with the interpretation of the Jedi Code.

 

Obi-Wan - "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Every time somebody brings up this quote I laugh my *** off. By that definition Obi-Wan is now a sith.

Obi-Wan - "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Every time somebody brings up this quote I laugh my *** off. By that definition Obi-Wan is now a sith.

 

Ah, the delightfully bad writing of George Lucas.

Maybe the Old Republic depicts Jedi in a different time period, but do you think that most JEdi seem to break the code?

 

specifically this code: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Code

 

I would say the Jedi Code is not a set of rules that the Jedi must adhere to or be drummed out of the Order with the sharp end of their lightsabre rammed up their backpack, but a set of ideals that they try to achieve in everything they do.

 

If you go by the Odan Urr version of the Code,

There is no emotion, there is peace.

There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.

There is no passion, there is serenity.

There is no chaos, there is harmony.

There is no death, there is the Force. [/Quote]

 

It amounts to "Do not make decisions while your judgement is clouded by emotion. Learn, and do not let ignorance (in the passive, "lack of knowledge" form) blind you to solutions to a problem. Do not allow your passions to rule your actions, and approach situations calmly. Try to bring everyone together for discussion rather than fighting. Look after your body, because after you are dead, it will be used by every Jedi and Sith in existence."

 

ok, that last is maybe a bit too necrophilic for the Jedi Order...

I would say the Jedi Code is not a set of rules that the Jedi must adhere to or be drummed out of the Order with the sharp end of their lightsabre rammed up their backpack, but a set of ideals that they try to achieve in everything they do.

 

Actually I think a Jedi can get drummed out of the order if they blatantly defy the code or at the very least they get screwed over by their superiors.

 

I think the reason that the Jedi Order (in this game at least) is fairly lax with the code is because this is wartime and if they alienate their padawans too much there's a good chance their padawans might just leave or even worse defect to the sith.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Xenedus

Actually I think a Jedi can get drummed out of the order if they blatantly defy the code or at the very least they get screwed over by their superiors.

 

I think the reason that the Jedi Order (in this game at least) is fairly lax with the code is because this is wartime and if they alienate their padawans too much there's a good chance their padawans might just leave or even worse defect to the sith.

 

Tython would like to have a word with you.

 

For every positive emotion, the Jedi seem to like to find a way to make it sound bad. Love leads to suffering and jealousy. Which, of course, leads to anger, which leads to hate. Blah blah.

 

Pride leads to jealousy and arrogance, which leads to greed and anger, which leads to hate.

 

Connections are bad because they lead to all of the above.

 

The Sith can be just as bad, but at least they acknowledge that their emotions have merit and purpose.

The Jedi Code is something that is very obviously NOT supposed to be taken literally. It's a prayer or a meditation piece. It's there to remind Jedi of an unattainable ideal that they nevertheless strive for. No Jedi tells another, "hey, you're showing concern for your padawan. You should probably watch that." The Sith treat their code similarly. Only the really dumb or gullible Sith believe that they have "broken all their chains" but all of them strive to get to that point.

 

The Jedi also aren't completely against the concept of love either. Jedi who have proven themselves as capable and reliable members of the order can and do petition for marriages and have it granted by the Council. That's a Jedi Knight and up privilege (which is why you were called to break up a padawan/padawan relationship on Tython). They are wary of it, but it isn't forbidden for everyone ever.

The Jedi Code is something that is very obviously NOT supposed to be taken literally. It's a prayer or a meditation piece. It's there to remind Jedi of an unattainable ideal that they nevertheless strive for. No Jedi tells another, "hey, you're showing concern for your padawan. You should probably watch that." The Sith treat their code similarly. Only the really dumb or gullible Sith believe that they have "broken all their chains" but all of them strive to get to that point.

 

Oh so Grand Master Satele Shan's talking to the Jedi Knight saying "We enter battle calmly, blah blah blah" isn't her following the code? Huh. Interesting.

 

As for the Sith, their chains are broken. Look at the Sith Inquisitor story, Lord Kallig's chains were broken by joining the Sith, considering he was a slave prior to that. In a sense, the Sith Code is true as much as the Jedi Code.

 

The Jedi also aren't completely against the concept of love either. Jedi who have proven themselves as capable and reliable members of the order can and do petition for marriages and have it granted by the Council. That's a Jedi Knight and up privilege (which is why you were called to break up a padawan/padawan relationship on Tython). They are wary of it, but it isn't forbidden for everyone ever.

 

Oh so the Revan and Bastila relationship wasn't condemned? Ah. I strictly recall the Council forcing them to the shadows, not allowing their relationship to be made public due to the fact that they ignored the Council. Later, the Jedi are forbidden to marry, Anakin says this himself in AotC.

Really though, both Jedi and Sith are hypocrites. Sith preach "freedom" when they're even more restricted than the Jedi are. Jedi can trust their compatriots. Sith are always expecting to be betrayed because they are all selfish.

 

And really though, I dislike how the Jedi code is misinterpreted by the people who take it too literally. There is no emotion; there is peace, means not to purge your emotions, but to CONTROL them, which ties into There is no passion; there is serenity. Passion rules reason. If you let your emotions cloud your judgement, you make stupid mistakes. So be logical and rational.

 

The Jedi don't discourage love, per say. They acknowledge it is a beneficial emotion, but the problem is it is so often confused with lust that eventually it becomes illegal for Jedi to marry (around 1000 years before the movie era, when the Senate hit the Jedi Order with the nerf bat).

Jedi and Sith are religions in a way. The more fanatical a member is, the more they tend to shy away from the true Dogmas of their religion. Jeedai (yes I spelled it right...go play KOTOR2) seem to me the more fanatical of the 2, always trying to exterminate the sith for using the force with no restrictions. the Sith hate the Jeedai for the exact opposite reason, and possibly with valid reasoning. The Sith hold themselves to little/no moral ethics. It's like saying godlessness is innocence. If I don't believe in God then I can't sin...If I do sin it's in the eyes of those who do believe. So ultimately the Jedi are hypocrites who try to justify the Republic tendencies with a code that implies hypocritical tones from the get go.For example if there is only peace Mace Windu would have imprisoned the emperor instead of rashly and brutally trying to attack, feeding the emperor feelings of hatred, making him all the more powerful in those brief moments as Mace is blown out a window. Anakin actually showed more Jeedai tendencies at that point than Mace, and Mace was just before that lecturing Anakin on being too weak to confront a Sith Lord. It's all a matter of perspective though. That's the great thing about Sci-fi...you get to use your imagination and let it mean to you whatever you choose it to mean! Enjoy!

Jedi and Sith are religions in a way. The more fanatical a member is, the more they tend to shy away from the true Dogmas of their religion. Jeedai (yes I spelled it right...go play KOTOR2) seem to me the more fanatical of the 2, always trying to exterminate the sith for using the force with no restrictions. the Sith hate the Jeedai for the exact opposite reason, and possibly with valid reasoning. The Sith hold themselves to little/no moral ethics. It's like saying godlessness is innocence. If I don't believe in God then I can't sin...If I do sin it's in the eyes of those who do believe. So ultimately the Jedi are hypocrites who try to justify the Republic tendencies with a code that implies hypocritical tones from the get go.For example if there is only peace Mace Windu would have imprisoned the emperor instead of rashly and brutally trying to attack, feeding the emperor feelings of hatred, making him all the more powerful in those brief moments as Mace is blown out a window. Anakin actually showed more Jeedai tendencies at that point than Mace, and Mace was just before that lecturing Anakin on being too weak to confront a Sith Lord. It's all a matter of perspective though. That's the great thing about Sci-fi...you get to use your imagination and let it mean to you whatever you choose it to mean! Enjoy!

 

In regards to that particular scene, it could very well be argued that Mace Windu sought to execute Sidious at the expense of himself, that he was sacrificing his morals and his integrity as a Jedi to ensure that such an immense threat (surely, one of the biggest ever faced by the Republic) could be removed. In this sense, he was entirely selfless.

 

Anakin, on the other hand, invoked "but it's not the Jedi way" out of desperation because he felt that Sidious alone could save Padme. He desired to save this monster solely because of personal reasons. Thus, he was being extremely selfish.

 

And no, Jeedai is not considered the correct spelling. In fact, when used it is considered a mispronunciation, insult, or, at least, a regional inflection. Its representation in KoToR 2 was limited to a handful of characters at most.

Oh so Grand Master Satele Shan's talking to the Jedi Knight saying "We enter battle calmly, blah blah blah" isn't her following the code? Huh. Interesting.

 

As for the Sith, their chains are broken. Look at the Sith Inquisitor story, Lord Kallig's chains were broken by joining the Sith, considering he was a slave prior to that. In a sense, the Sith Code is true as much as the Jedi Code.

 

 

 

Oh so the Revan and Bastila relationship wasn't condemned? Ah. I strictly recall the Council forcing them to the shadows, not allowing their relationship to be made public due to the fact that they ignored the Council. Later, the Jedi are forbidden to marry, Anakin says this himself in AotC.

 

What, how is entering battle calmly not following the code? I said in cases where the code says "there is no emotion" you don't see jedi jumping over any and all expresses of any emotion. And second the Jedi Knight, Sith Inquisitor and Jedi Consular romances all make references to receiving the Council's permission. If such a thing NEVER happened, then the characters wouldn't mention it. And the small matter of the aforementioned Satele having a son and still being Grand Master.

In regards to that particular scene, it could very well be argued that Mace Windu sought to execute Sidious at the expense of himself, that he was sacrificing his morals and his integrity as a Jedi to ensure that such an immense threat (surely, one of the biggest ever faced by the Republic) could be removed. In this sense, he was entirely selfless.

 

Anakin, on the other hand, invoked "but it's not the Jedi way" out of desperation because he felt that Sidious alone could save Padme. He desired to save this monster solely because of personal reasons. Thus, he was being extremely selfish.

 

And no, Jeedai is not considered the correct spelling. In fact, when used it is considered a mispronunciation, insult, or, at least, a regional inflection. Its representation in KoToR 2 was limited to a handful of characters at most.

 

Well if you consider Mace's actions alone, yes...you MIGHT be correct. However, his body, his stance, and his words were filled with passion. I will concede that Anakin's reasonings were rather selfish, but were spoken like a Jedi might, with COMpassion. It was an interesting twist and possibly one worth further debate and exploration.

 

As for "Jeedai" it IS the correct spelling if used in a contempt manner and insult. I remember the conversation QUITE well. As a matter of fact I DO have contempt for Jedi. Can't stand them. So for myself, since I say it with contempt, it's the correct spelling for an intentional MISPELLING of the word. It's all a matter of perspective. Jeedai is as real to me as "Pwned"is to Wow kids.

Really though, both Jedi and Sith are hypocrites. Sith preach "freedom" when they're even more restricted than the Jedi are. Jedi can trust their compatriots. Sith are always expecting to be betrayed because they are all selfish.

 

Sith can, and do, trust each other. Not always, and not as much as the Jedi might, but they do. The entire order, and the Empire, trust the Emperor. The Dark Council trusts the Voice of the Emperor, and the Wrath of the Emperor. Malgus trusted the Sith that served with him. It's even a crime for one Sith to kill another, besides, at least they can trust themselves.

 

Jedi, on the other hand, are constantly having to watch themselves for any stray passions that might threaten to break free from the inner "peace" that they work so hard to build.

 

And really though, I dislike how the Jedi code is misinterpreted by the people who take it too literally. There is no emotion; there is peace, means not to purge your emotions, but to CONTROL them, which ties into There is no passion; there is serenity. Passion rules reason. If you let your emotions cloud your judgement, you make stupid mistakes. So be logical and rational.

 

There is no emotion; there is peace. No, as in none. The Jedi strive to purge themselves of emotions, simply to avoid any negative effects from said emotions. Really, though, how can you feel peace and serenity if your not happy? Happiness is an emotion, but emotion is bad. There fore, happiness is bad.

 

The idea that passions can over-ride logic does have a foundation, but there's a very good counter-point. The Sith Empire. An entire order that believes in using passion to strengthen themselves managed to out-play the Republic, and won the first war. Matter of fact, the Sith have only ever been defeated because of the passions of their adversaries. They lost the Great Hyperspace War because Gav Daragon felt remorse for helping to lead them to the Republic, and because he loved his sister.

 

He attacked Sadow's meditation sphere, forcing Sadow to end his Battle Meditation, and dispelling the illusions Sadow created. That, combined with the astrogation data from the Star Breaker 12 allowed Republic forces to push them back into the Empire, and begin the purge.

 

Speaking, where was the Jedi's compassion, serenity, and logic as the Republic began systematically wiping out the Sith species, and their culture?

 

Criticism aside, onto Exar Kun, who was only defeated because Ulic Qel-Droma felt terrible about killing his brother, and turned himself in. Even then, he wiped out an entire iteration of the Jedi Council, who set the moon of Yavin IV on fire trying to stop him.

 

The came Revan. Do you really think Bastila would have been able to capture Revan, if Malak hadn't fired on his ship? Probably not. Would the Republic have been able to destroy the Star Forge, if Revan hadn't been able to turn Bastila back through their love for each other? Probably not. In fact, if you go with the Dark Side path, the Republic gets smashed.

 

Three hundred years later, and we come to the Great Galactic War. At least, I think that's its technical term, and strategies of the Empire, that allowed it to bring the larger Republic to it's knees. Malgus and the Emperor employed more logic and tactical skill then the Republic, or their Jedi defenders. The only reason that Alderaan was taken back from the Empire was because of the tenacity, rage, and aggressiveness of the Republic guerrillas.

 

Bothuwai was only saved because every single defender willingly gave their lives to defend it. I doubt very much that even the Jedi Master, who's name I've forgotten, was calm and at peace.

 

Malgus' sneak attacks not only helped to save resources, but made it impossible to know for sure which system was going to be struck next.

 

The Dread Masters would twist their enemies minds, making entire armies surrender. No loss of Imperial life, no wasted military resources, and it was all done using the passions that the Jedi fear. And that's really what it is, fear.

 

So, you see, a passionless existence does not mean that you're going to have a clearer head, and will be able to think things through better. If anything, denial of those passions is inhibiting you, by blocking off avenues of inspiration and determination that can drive people to fight. Passions that lead to the development of better machines of war.

 

Had the Jedi been willing to employ even some of their emotions during the war, things might have turned out differently.

 

In this war, there were no fallen Jedi to turn back. There were very few Sith who felt like they were doing the wrong thing. What the Jedi faced was the legacy of inaction, and blow-back of their 'serenity'. A mistake they made, a very stupid one, that truly 'compassionate' beings would have fought against. And it nearly destroyed them.

 

Their strive for an emotionless existence is great for law enforcement, where it pays to not be attached in any personal way. In war, though, it has no application. That's why the Sith continue to prove, time and time again, that they will win any military campaign.

 

The Jedi don't discourage love, per say. They acknowledge it is a beneficial emotion, but the problem is it is so often confused with lust that eventually it becomes illegal for Jedi to marry (around 1000 years before the movie era, when the Senate hit the Jedi Order with the nerf bat).

 

Yes they do. They go out of their way to make sure their members avoid actual love. Even the Grand Master of the order gave up her own child to avoid forming real attachments. And the Jedi idea of marriage is dispassionate, disconnected, and subject to extreme scrutiny. Not to mention the Jedi Council has to approve of the marriage, it's why

 

 

Luke Skywalker was right in encouraging his Jedi to form emotional attachments and connections, to actually go out and find love. He recognized the benefit of positive emotions, and even some of the negative ones.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Kaskava

What, how is entering battle calmly not following the code? I said in cases where the code says "there is no emotion" you don't see jedi jumping over any and all expresses of any emotion. And second the Jedi Knight, Sith Inquisitor and Jedi Consular romances all make references to receiving the Council's permission. If such a thing NEVER happened, then the characters wouldn't mention it. And the small matter of the aforementioned Satele having a son and still being Grand Master.

 

Not to mention if it weren't for an ate up code which they can defy at will it seems, there would BE no Shan's left at all.That Jedi serenity didn't help Bastilla one bit as I converted her. That was the point Revan was trying to make with Malachor V...he used it as a conversion tool to teach Sith and Jedi alike that they needed to put aside their dogmatic views to fight a true enemy, unlike any they had ever seen. He saw the flaws in both teachings. Even the Jedi masters knew their teachings were flawed and a couple freely admitted it, such as Zez-Kai-Ell. As much as I like destroying that fool, he was the most honorable and forthcoming about what had transpired...well...as much as he could. Even the handmaiden, Brianna, saw the flaws in the teachings. Her mother being a very powerful Jedi and her father being an echani General. Jedi have always broken the rules having children. The Qel Dromas family for instance was wrought withscandals from both sides of the force. And that's how Revan sought to end the religious conflict between the 2 warring factions. Remember the words of HK-47..."The best form assassination is not the assassination of the physical being...the best assassination is that of the mind. The Master found found it was much more efficient to make Jedi dark and light see HIS way of things and assassinate the truths they had come to know." (paraphrased, but underlying meaning).

Lucas Based his Jedi code on the path of Buhdism. Emotions bind us to the wheel of life and cause us to have to return to life over and over to relearn the lessons we got wrong. Only by mastering your emotions can you release yourself from the wheel of reincarnation and obtain true enlightenment. Much of what lucas put iinto star wars is based off of eastern philosophy. It's also a western with blasters and star ships. This thread is silly.

Lucas Based his Jedi code on the path of Buhdism. Emotions bind us to the wheel of life and cause us to have to return to life over and over to relearn the lessons we got wrong. Only by mastering your emotions can you release yourself from the wheel of reincarnation and obtain true enlightenment. Much of what lucas put iinto star wars is based off of eastern philosophy. It's also a western with blasters and star ships. This thread is silly.

 

There's a reason that it's in the 'Story' section.

"There is no emotion, only peace."

 

Similar to, yet not as strict as, Vulcans. Do not ACT on emotion. Find your inner peace, and act on logic. Think of the "codes" as spoken in the game as the Tables of Contents for the full codes, article/chapter/section titles, rather than the text of the codes.

Of course, when you take either code literally, neither of them makes sense.

 

Thankfully, the Code is not meant literally.

There is no emotion; there is peace. No, as in none. The Jedi strive to purge themselves of emotions, simply to avoid any negative effects from said emotions. Really, though, how can you feel peace and serenity if your not happy? Happiness is an emotion, but emotion is bad. There fore, happiness is bad.

 

That is, the single best summation, of my issue with the Jedi code.

 

You can't feel compassion without emotion, so with no emotion, there is no compassion.

Wello as some of you seem to have problems with understanding the yedi code I sugest you should spend some time studying the teachings of buddah or the greek stoa. This is exactly where Lucas "borrowed" *cough* his ideas from. And indeed both are highly philosophic and not easy to understand.

That is, the single best summation, of my issue with the Jedi code.

 

You can't feel compassion without emotion, so with no emotion, there is no compassion.

 

Things like Justice require neutrality; compassion makes one lose that neutrality. That is actually part of the first Consular quest.