Really? A loss used to give a point. I was away for a few months, so if that is a new change it is really really bad.

Rampant premades had already been ruining WZ's. This will outright kill them.

 

I'd be fine with it if they stopped premades from queueing.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Nemmar

Really? A loss used to give a point. I was away for a few months, so if that is a new change it is really really bad.

Rampant premades had already been ruining WZ's. This will outright kill them.

 

I'd be fine with it if they stopped premades from queueing.

 

stopping friends from playing with each other in a mmo? if you want to play swtor as a single-player game go right ahead, don't see why so many of you seem to have a hard-on for forcing others to do the same

Edited August 25, 2020 by RikuvonDrake

stopping friends from playing with each other in a mmo? if you want to play swtor as a single-player game go right ahead, don't see why so many of you seem to have a hard-on for forcing others to do the same

 

Because it puts everyone in the same situation.

 

If you want to queue with a group, there should be a premade vs premade mode for you. If people don't populate it, then it is no excuse to make the experience worse for everyone else that queue'd solo.

Besides, you can still play with your friends. You don't need to be in the same team for that. Sometimes you would be, sometimes you wouldn't. What's the problem?

Edited August 25, 2020 by Nemmar

Because it puts everyone in the same situation.

 

If you want to queue with a group, there should be a premade vs premade mode for you. If people don't populate it, then it is no excuse to make the experience worse for everyone else that queue'd solo.

Besides, you can still play with your friends. You don't need to be in the same team for that. Sometimes you would be, sometimes you wouldn't. What's the problem?

 

i am sorry but you have to come back to reality, this won't ever happen, again this game is a MMO, the developers actively working against having players play together? Nah mate ur starting to sound like trixis now

 

the game wants to put a premade of 4 against another premade of 4, but if there is no other such team in the queue the matchmaker will expand to trying to find a premade of 3 or two premade of 2

 

its regs, after all, I think you guys just need to take it less seriously and if you see a premade of four just ask some of your guildmates and friends to play with you if you want to improve your chances

Edited August 25, 2020 by RikuvonDrake

Really? A loss used to give a point. I was away for a few months, so if that is a new change it is really really bad.

Rampant premades had already been ruining WZ's. This will outright kill them.

 

I'd be fine with it if they stopped premades from queueing.

 

Quite the opposite from my experience, WZ's are still popping pretty actively on SS in the afternoon.

i am sorry but you have to come back to reality, this won't ever happen, again this game is a MMO, the developers actively working against having players play together? Nah mate ur starting to sound like trixis now

 

the game wants to put a premade of 4 against another premade of 4, but if there is no other such team in the queue the matchmaker will expand to trying to find a premade of 3 or two premade of 2

 

its regs, after all, I think you guys just need to take it less seriously and if you see a premade of four just ask some of your guildmates and friends to play with you if you want to improve your chances

 

I don't see how that logic applies cause we are all still playing with other players. If you want to play in a guaranteed way with your friends, that is what PvE co-op is for or a pre-made vs pre-made mode. If there isn't enough demand, then your needs don't outweigh those that queue solo to play with others. If you want to play against a group of people that are disadvantaged versus your organized group of friends cause they queued solo, i can't agree that your worries should take precedence, no. This doesn't stop being an mmo cause you can't pre-made with others in a single casual PvP mode.

 

Love it!

Take it less seriously while i take advantage of the system!

Sure...

 

Nah, i can't agree with that.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Nemmar

I came after a few months away to see this terrible system. It removes all incentives for new players to play, because they're gonna just get rolled by premades and never complete their quests.

 

Kill this system and bring back the old one. Devs don't understand incentive structures and are killing their playerbase.

This system is the best!

Warzones are now more competitive than ever, thank the Devs for removing participation trophies!

very happy that this system was introduced and it's evident that it works wonder for warzones being far more competitive than before when the whole team is actually playing to win instead of just afk at a node, number farming or running around roleplaying. I understand that some people are complaining, after all, lots of people would give up a few minutes into a warzone and afk at a node for the rest of the game, but I am happy Bioware adjusted the game to discourage such gameplay Edited September 13, 2020 by RikuvonDrake

I have completed the BG weekly on 3 toons and will finish up two more this evening. Hmmmm....40 wins this week will not be hard. Overall, I have experienced a vast improvement in the BGs. Yes, there have been some one sided matches but, for the most part, those are few and far between. Most have been pretty damn competitive. Edited September 14, 2020 by Nickodemous

This system is the best!

Warzones are now more competitive than ever, thank the Devs for removing participation trophies!

 

Having losses count toward your daily/weekly is not the same thing as a participation trophy in RL sports.

 

Here's why:

 

First, in RL sports, you do not take a bunch of strangers who show up a field, half of whom don't care about winning, assign membership in two teams by random draw, and turn them loose, then take a bunch of other strangers, random draw two teams, turn them loose, and repeat until everyone is ready to go home. Leagues and teams are formed by the members and they can eject people who consistently don't or won't perform. Team members and coaches provide both a social reinforcement after losses (either of the "we learned a lot - we'll train harder and kick their ***" variety or the "you did your best and I'm still proud" variety) AND they provide feedback and additional training for weaker members, allowing them to improve.

 

Unranked warzones don't have any of that social reinforcement, improvement opportunity, or even the ability to /ignore people who will not pay attention to objectives so they can't be part of your team anymore.

 

Secondly, participation trophies are not for the participant. Participation trophies are something you give the kid so the parent has something to put on their wall and prove to the other PTA members they are a good parent. It gets the parents off your back and off the ref's back. The kid will be consistently fine after whichever post-loss motivational speech you give them. The kids are all right. It's the parents who suck.

 

Allowing losses to count as progress toward your daily/weekly IS for the participant. Getting stuck by random draw with a team who won't focus on objectives makes for a loss. By making all losses get you nothing, the player is being punished for something over which he has NO control (since there isn't an /ignore list for pvp). Whereas by letting the loss advance the participant's ultimate goal (quest completion), just not as effectively, you're still getting somewhere when the random draw genie isn't favorable.

 

Losses counting for nothing in the ranked areas is fine. Everyone there wants to win because it's ranked. But in unranked where you've got a good chunk of people who aren't interested in winning getting thrown in with people who DO, it is more damaging than helpful.

Having losses count toward your daily/weekly is not the same thing as a participation trophy in RL sports.

 

Here's why:

 

First, in RL sports, you do not take a bunch of strangers who show up a field, half of whom don't care about winning, assign membership in two teams by random draw, and turn them loose, then take a bunch of other strangers, random draw two teams, turn them loose, and repeat until everyone is ready to go home. Leagues and teams are formed by the members and they can eject people who consistently don't or won't perform. Team members and coaches provide both a social reinforcement after losses (either of the "we learned a lot - we'll train harder and kick their ***" variety or the "you did your best and I'm still proud" variety) AND they provide feedback and additional training for weaker members, allowing them to improve.

 

Unranked warzones don't have any of that social reinforcement, improvement opportunity, or even the ability to /ignore people who will not pay attention to objectives so they can't be part of your team anymore.

 

Secondly, participation trophies are not for the participant. Participation trophies are something you give the kid so the parent has something to put on their wall and prove to the other PTA members they are a good parent. It gets the parents off your back and off the ref's back. The kid will be consistently fine after whichever post-loss motivational speech you give them. The kids are all right. It's the parents who suck.

 

Allowing losses to count as progress toward your daily/weekly IS for the participant. Getting stuck by random draw with a team who won't focus on objectives makes for a loss. By making all losses get you nothing, the player is being punished for something over which he has NO control (since there isn't an /ignore list for pvp). Whereas by letting the loss advance the participant's ultimate goal (quest completion), just not as effectively, you're still getting somewhere when the random draw genie isn't favorable.

 

Losses counting for nothing in the ranked areas is fine. Everyone there wants to win because it's ranked. But in unranked where you've got a good chunk of people who aren't interested in winning getting thrown in with people who DO, it is more damaging than helpful.

 

First- this isn't real life sports, it's a video game. You already pointed out the differences in your description here

Unranked warzones don't have any of that social reinforcement, improvement opportunity, or even the ability to /ignore people who will not pay attention to objectives so they can't be part of your team anymore

 

 

Second- Participation trophies are simply for participating, it's in the name, The keyword being P A R T I C I P A T I O N

Rewarding losses reinforces negative or poor behavior by showing that it is ok not to try or put forth effort towards achieving a goal because you're going to get rewarded anyways.

 

When in a warzone, you are on a team whether it is a 4 man or 8 man team, it is still a team therefore you should work as a team if you want to achieve the goal of WINNING.Giving rewards to all 8 members of a team when only half the team put forth any effort does not reinforce the meaning of team work, again it promotes lazy/bad performance. In other instances, you're team is just outplayed, even if everyone put forth maximum effort.

 

If you don't like being randomly grouped up with people and playing the lottery of The good, the bad and the ugly, find 3 other people you like playing with and invite them to a group, this game allows you to do that. Communicate, coordinate and better your chances of winning

Now get out there and GO BERZERK!

First- this isn't real life sports, it's a video game. You already pointed out the differences in your description here

 

 

 

Second- Participation trophies are simply for participating, it's in the name, The keyword being P A R T I C I P A T I O N

Rewarding losses reinforces negative or poor behavior by showing that it is ok not to try or put forth effort towards achieving a goal because you're going to get rewarded anyways.

 

That is an excellent point. While I still wish it were the old way, I don't completely mind the way it is now. Matches do, for the most part, seem more competitive...and my win percentage has gone up some. They still need to address the matchmaking. If they did that, I think games, even losing, would be a bit less frustrating. I find that I am less frustrated in games where *I* feel I did well personally as opposed to games where I am cc'd the whole game (among other frustrating occurrences).

 

If you don't like being randomly grouped up with people and playing the lottery of The good, the bad and the ugly, find 3 other people you like playing with and invite them to a group, this game allows you to do that. Communicate, coordinate and better your chances of winning

Now get out there and GO BERZERK!

 

People just don't seem that social in this game...or maybe it's me. Uncertain. But, yeah, losing on a team blunts the ego bruise for me, and winning on a team is more exhilarating, particularly if you're on voice communications, imo. As you mentioned, it also increases your odds of winning *if* you communicate.

 

But, losing several matches in a row can make me wish for the old system pretty quickly. There is no pleasing everyone, but what can be particularly frustrating is when I give maximum effort and I notice that some are just farming numbers without caring whether the team wins or not. I still argue that more meaningful rewards are a good answer to interest new players, retain more experienced players, and keep everyone putting forth maximum effort. Like, maybe along with every PvP season, regs could have seasons wherein you can earn titles for win percentages...and when the season is over, the titles are no longer attainable. No weapons or really valuable stuff, but achievements that might be nice for bragging rights.

 

It's a thought.

Rewarding losses reinforces negative or poor behavior by showing that it is ok not to try or put forth effort towards achieving a goal because you're going to get rewarded anyways.

 

I could not agree more.

If you can tell before the wz starts, that it's going to be a loss, and it's consistent for people rn; In addition, you can't leave w/o a penalty; Houston we have a problem. They'll fix the issues maybe in a year LOL

 

The PVP is WAY too unbalanced for this sort of thing.

 

It's like being locked in jail cell with "hungry" inmates that you can't get out of LOOOOOOOL

 

 

 

My advice: I'll paste some of it from another post....

 

 

I would suggest putting the premades/people and/or guilds on your friends list wait till you see them in a match for a few mins then q; q dodge them. If you are pub, flip imp to have peek or play imp etc.

 

Believe it or not you still have power in this situation if you q dodge them, you won't have to fight any OP premades, and be in these pointless matches. Also, watch their play patterns when they play and just do something else or play when they don't LOL

 

If people want to make OP premades, let them fight OP premades, and stay out of the q till it's clear of them so you at least have a chance to win.

 

Don't rely on other people changing to suit your needs whether it be the premades or Devs not fixing it.

 

Regs are casual not World War 3 LMAO

 

People shouldn't have to come up with a premade on steroids to even be competitive. A lot of people just like to log on and q. They don't want to or don't have time to organize groups, especially finding players good enough to beat good premades.

 

GL

Edited September 16, 2020 by AocaVII

Im my case, I know the objective, but I cannot guard every base and I cannot stop 2+ enemies attacking me at a base and when I call for help, no one answered.

 

That's not even remotely my fault. I do my part, but if 1/8th of the team is what wins or loses matches, then yeah, it's all my fault we lose most matches.

 

Don't listen to them. Especially Raansu is not interested in reasonable communication, never has been. I'm almost at valor 100 and always end up on top of my team's scoreboard, because I know what to do. And still, I don't win warzones at the moment. It's not my fault and I know it's not my fault. I do what I can. But those forumers don't care. Belittling is part of their PvP fun. They have been for so long in their circles, they don't know what the normal experience of a normal player in this game is.

 

i really don't understand the people who are crying about that change,

 

When Swtor came out it was like that.

 

It was like that at the Start, and the Change for counting losses made it worse.

 

No, it didn't make it worse, Dreckwurst. It was the solution for reviving PvP which was DEAD on most servers. One main reason for the huge loss of players during 2012 was the terrible PvP experience. I ran a PvP-focussed guild in 2012 which was one of the biggest guilds on rep side on my server back then. We lost ALL players but us two guild leaders by August 2012. And the reason was the extreme imbalance in PvP and bad experience.

 

Everyone stating otherwise was playing on the overwhelming winning side and was thus part of the problem.

 

its regs, after all, I think you guys just need to take it less seriously

 

Your reply shows a lack of empathy from your side. You have obviously never experienced the losing side of things (in this game), otherwise you wouldn't write such reply. It's easy to shout down from your Elfenbeinturm. It's easy to say "chill out, it's just a game" if you have your weekly done in 10 games, while others don't even have their daily in 10 games.

 

This system is the best!

Warzones are now more competitive than ever, thank the Devs for removing participation trophies!

 

No, they are not. Uncoordinated pugs do exactly the same as before. If you're lucky, you have 3 players going for objectives. I don't understand why, but I assume that many player simply gave up and just do some pew pew pew.

 

very happy that this system was introduced and it's evident that it works wonder for warzones being far more competitive than before when the whole team is actually playing to win instead of just afk at a node, number farming or running around roleplaying. I understand that some people are complaining, after all, lots of people would give up a few minutes into a warzone and afk at a node for the rest of the game, but I am happy Bioware adjusted the game to discourage such gameplay

 

You seem to have a very different experience than I and others. When was the last time you were in a standard pug on rep side? "The whole team is actually playing to win"? I can only lol at this. It's not at all what I have been experiencing. (And for the record, we're in the same imp guild, so I also have the possibility to queue with guildies and roflstomp the rep pugs.)

 

Rewarding losses reinforces negative or poor behavior by showing that it is ok not to try or put forth effort towards achieving a goal because you're going to get rewarded anyways.

 

In my opinion, it's the other way round.

 

This new (old) system punishes players who give their best, and have clearly contributed well to a warzone, but had bad luck with their team placement. I always contribute to my team's performance in the best way possible. But I get punished for it in the same way as if I would have just afk'd. How is that fair from a sportsmanship perspective?

 

I get punished for others' underperformances. As a result, I quit playing PvP again, because I feel punished and discouraged at the same time. A solution which drags players away is not a good solution. If I'm on the losing side, it doesn't matter if I did my best or nothing. Both scenarios have the same outcome: nothing.

 

What is my incentive to continue if I can already tell after 1 minute that we will lose, because my teammates aren't even trying to grab an orb or they fight far away from our nodes? If I still do my best, if I stand my ground in a 1v2 against a tank+healer combo thanks to knowing my class... what does it matter? I go home with nothing anyway. Same as those guys who have no objective points. This is zero incentive to continue playing. So I stop queueing again.

 

And generally, to the people claiming that PvP is busier than ever... I see many more "please q" messages on the fleet than I've seen in the previous years. Sometimes I wonder if I play a different game than you... :confused:

In my opinion, it's the other way round.

 

This new (old) system punishes players who give their best, and have clearly contributed well to a warzone, but had bad luck with their team placement. I always contribute to my team's performance in the best way possible. But I get punished for it in the same way as if I would have just afk'd. How is that fair from a sportsmanship perspective?

 

I get punished for others' underperformances. As a result, I quit playing PvP again, because I feel punished and discouraged at the same time. A solution which drags players away is not a good solution. If I'm on the losing side, it doesn't matter if I did my best or nothing. Both scenarios have the same outcome: nothing.

 

What is my incentive to continue if I can already tell after 1 minute that we will lose, because my teammates aren't even trying to grab an orb or they fight far away from our nodes? If I still do my best, if I stand my ground in a 1v2 against a tank+healer combo thanks to knowing my class... what does it matter? I go home with nothing anyway. Same as those guys who have no objective points. This is zero incentive to continue playing. So I stop queueing again.

 

And generally, to the people claiming that PvP is busier than ever... I see many more "please q" messages on the fleet than I've seen in the previous years. Sometimes I wonder if I play a different game than you... :confused:

Well as you've said, it is your opinion, OPINION

If you don't like it then don't play, I myself have taken that approach in the past. Certain things in life do not always work out in life the way we would like and in many instances we have the opportunity to walk away and pursue other avenues. It's an option we all have, no one is forcing you to do anything. The game is always in flux, check back in 6 months, it will likely be different.

If you lost 14 matches out of 15 it probably was well deserved! You sound like one of those Sorc/Jugg/Merc players that just goes for zerg and expect their team auto win for them. So i pity your team for having such a trol onboard...

If you tell me you seriously played 15 matches for objective and lost them pvp isn't for you. please stop queueing or search for another game. not joking. you will have no fun in this game longterm.

 

Lots of losses is indeed possible, especially in solo queue. - It's highly unlikely that even a elite player could turn a match around all by themselves.

 

Okay so the solution is to team-up, but not everyone has a regular circle of friends that are always free when you are. people have other lives outside SWTOR PVP.

Whatever side of this argument you are on, as a player honestly ask yourself what is best for the integrity of PVP? And the honest answer is you should have to win to advance the daily/weekly quests. Is it really good for the integrity of PVP to have players queueing up so they can bang out four quick losses, then move onto their next alt to bang out four quick losses, then move onto their next alt and bang out four quick losses? No, it is not.

 

Most premades are grouping together because they want to weed out as many bads as they can to give themselves a better chance of winning. Winning is fun. Losing isn't. Even if it is unrated competition. Even if queueing solo, you have a chance to end up being grouped with a premade. And with mixed faction warzones, no one can even complain that "THEIR side takes premades much more seriously and has better players".

 

All I do is queue solo and I continue to hover around 50% win/loss, same as I was before the update. It could be streaky sometimes, but in the end it equals out.

Your reply shows a lack of empathy from your side. You have obviously never experienced the losing side of things (in this game), otherwise you wouldn't write such reply. It's easy to shout down from your Elfenbeinturm. It's easy to say "chill out, it's just a game" if you have your weekly done in 10 games, while others don't even have their daily in 10 games.

 

You seem to have a very different experience than I and others. When was the last time you were in a standard pug on rep side? "The whole team is actually playing to win"? I can only lol at this. It's not at all what I have been experiencing. (And for the record, we're in the same imp guild, so I also have the possibility to queue with guildies and roflstomp the rep pugs.)

 

I realize there would be a lot of players that got used to the "I can just lose 4 matches and I get my daily rewards", sadly with such a mentality and personality you ruin the game for the rest of your team who wants to play to win. Sure you don't always win even when you try your hardest and sure sometimes there are players like you on my team who don't care about winning and just go afk at a node a minute into the game.

 

But in the majority of my games, and it seems a lot of players are agreeing or this change would have triggered a bigger outcry, the quality of games is much higher as it has become more competitive. For some, perhaps like yourself who have gotten used to just afk at a node, losing or winning doesn't matter but I guess you gotta get used to the new system, try to win

 

after all, even if you don't get your weekly done in one day that doesn't mean that you are a bad player, just play and enjoy the game, hopefully, you will start enjoying it more once you play to win

Edited September 18, 2020 by RikuvonDrake

Mainwhile other people queue solo and are getting winloss ratios of over 50%. Hell myself im at like 60-70% overall. When in a premade I pretty much don't lose

 

How is that my fault? You just have to get good.

Mainwhile other people queue solo and are getting winloss ratios of over 50%. Hell myself im at like 60-70% overall. When in a premade I pretty much don't lose

 

How is that my fault? You just have to get good.

 

There's always been a lot of bad players at first it was just pub side for years. The players were awful. Now last few years it's just mostly bad players. I don't think they understand the fundamentals of their class. People need to extensively learn their class before pvping. For example, I would never even go in a wz until I knew the class well and practiced on npcs, for hours at a time. It took time and effort. People don't want to do that. They want an easy button.

 

In some cases people are just bad at pvp, and they never really improve. I'm bad at ops; I just find it boring so I barely pay attention. They may even be great in hard mode etc. Conversely, they lack learning the fundamentals of PVP. There's a thread on what to do and many good guides. I'm not going to explain in a novel here. It's not very hard to PVP tbh. You don't need to be some pvp savant to be a great player.

 

So part of the overall issue of PVP is bad players which we can't really fix. I mentioned before Pugs a few years ago quite often beat or farmed good premades. Now you hardly ever see that.

 

Can giving better rewards fix bad players? IMO no; There's still bad players in ranked and always has been for years even with far better rewards so that kind of proves it. I'm sure there would be a few exceptions.

 

Most of them will never just "get good." I've seen the same players since launch; still bad at PVP. This is why classes are nerfed and all sorts of bad things happen to pvp as a whole.

 

3.0 lightning Sorcs and PT's should have never gotten nerfed. PT has been bad for so many years as well as Sorc lightning, both not viable. Now look where we are both classes are almost as powerful as they were so all the crying was for nothing, just made players play other classes or quit.

 

I could make a list of probably 100 things bad players complain about that messes up every aspect of pvp. TBH that's probably why we had the mass exodus of good players because of bad players complaining, and the implements of changes because of that.

Edited September 21, 2020 by AocaVII