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Top 8 Class Storylines?


Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
10.28.2016 , 01:06 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
Well, like I said, perceptions vary. The bottom line is...

I've never felt like a slave playing SW.

I've felt like a downtrodden, worthless piece of **** playing SI.


As for why, the SW basically dominates anyone and everyone throughout the entire story. He doesn't even get bested in battle by:
Spoiler


And if you follow the SW story to its final culmination in expansion content:
Spoiler


I look at it kind of like this... the SW is like a sharp blade with no handle. You can't enslave the SW any more than you can wrap your hands around an unprotected blade without bleeding. You can, however, try to get it to hack where you want it to hack. But if you try to destroy it or dominate it, it may cut you in the process.

And I mean, that's more or less what Vader was like. The prequel lore (much as I hate those movies) supports this: Vader became the Emperor's enforcer because of unchecked bitterness, anger, abandonment, and self-loathing. He was never a slave to the Emperor and he proved that at the end of RotJ.
Come on, Vader was a complete slave:

First to Watto on Tatooine.
Then to Padme and memory of his mother.
Then Sidious enslaved him.
Ultimately he ended up as a slave to his own armor of all things!
(he always wanted to follow "wise" leaders -> he even says so in ep.II)
And the ending of RoTJ used a traditional "love shall set you free" trick.

I mean, how explosive and dangerous someone is has no influence on whether someone is a slave or not. A fact is a fact.
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
10.28.2016 , 04:22 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
Come on, Vader was a complete slave:

First to Watto on Tatooine.
Then to Padme and memory of his mother.
Then Sidious enslaved him.
Ultimately he ended up as a slave to his own armor of all things!
(he always wanted to follow "wise" leaders -> he even says so in ep.II)
And the ending of RoTJ used a traditional "love shall set you free" trick.

I mean, how explosive and dangerous someone is has no influence on whether someone is a slave or not. A fact is a fact.
Are you for real? You're just bending the word slave. Watto is the only time he was literally a slave and he got free of that at something like 10 years old.

Saying he was "enslaved" to Padme and the memory of his mother is not just bending the word "slave." It's twisting it around like a slinky. He was obsessively in love with Padme and he had trouble letting go of his mother, as is understandable for someone who had to abandon his mother at a young age and then see her as a captive of Sand People later.

There is nothing in the movie lore indicating that Sidious was actually stronger than him, so it's a stretch to say Sidious enslaved him. Going by Anakin's relationship with Palpatine in the prequels, he respected the Emperor on a certain level and wanted to learn from him. That's why he continued to follow him. He also had no good reason to kill Palpatine once he was allied with him, until his son came into the picture as a potential way to have an apprentice of his own and a reminder of what brought him to such a corrupted point in life.

"A slave to his armor." So if someone is wheelchair-bound, would you say they are a slave to it? Vader functioned just fine with his armor and many dark Jedi / Sith in SW lore have worn some kind of mask, or had robotics, and they weren't considered slaves. Despite his armor, Vader was/is still one of the most powerful force users in SW history.

Or we could do this your way. Here we go, using your reasoning: The Sith Emperor in SWTOR is a complete slave. First he was a slave to his ambition. Then he was a slave to his quest for immortality. He was also a slave to the eternal empire and his family. And a slave to his body. Oh and he's also just a slave in general to his desire to have power and control over other people.

I mean, we could use that kind of reasoning with every person, real or fictional, ever and claim that they are a slave.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
10.28.2016 , 07:01 PM | #43
All Sith's are a slave to their emotions!

>_>
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
10.29.2016 , 03:10 AM | #44
As I play through the Inquisitor Class again, I thought of this thread with mention of being lead around. The Sith Inquisitor can be the one who says "This is what we're going to do..." rather than "What do I do?" at least when it comes to the idea of "Let's get me more ghosts!"
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
10.29.2016 , 07:44 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post

I look at it kind of like this... the SW is like a sharp blade with no handle. You can't enslave the SW any more than you can wrap your hands around an unprotected blade without bleeding. You can, however, try to get it to hack where you want it to hack. But if you try to destroy it or dominate it, it may cut you in the process.

And I mean, that's more or less what Vader was like. The prequel lore (much as I hate those movies) supports this: Vader became the Emperor's enforcer because of unchecked bitterness, anger, abandonment, and self-loathing. He was never a slave to the Emperor and he proved that at the end of RotJ.
As much as I like the Sith Warrior, I think that was a flaw in how the character was written.

One of the problems with both playable Sith characters is that the player is provided too many opportunities to be insubordinate without there being consequences. While that works as fan service, it doesn't mesh well with the story.

Sith Apprentices should be living in terror of their masters, and with good reason, at least until they've reached a point where they've sufficiently mastered the dark side to challenge their masters. The master has spent decades or centuries studying and practicing the dark side, and should be able to crush a new Apprentice with ease. In gaming terms they're a level 65 to your level 10. An acolyte fresh from Korriban should not be able to get away with snarking Baras or Zash, at least not without being force-lightning'd into submission.

Other Sith that aren't your immediate superiors? Sure, that would be a different story. An apprentice to Baras or Zash also represents their master, and many other Sith would need to be careful not to offend those masters. Even if that Sith is a Darth, they might not necessarily be able to strike you down without consequences. The player character getting away with snarking a more powerful Sith would be more believable there.

I think both Baras and Zash should have had a scene where challenging their authority too forcefully or too early would result in a cutscene where the player character was zapped and overpowered, or a light saber duel (pre-level sync) where you were outleveled massively and guaranteed to get crushed. Rather than resulting in death however, you'd just be beaten and forced to grovel. (and quietly seethe and plot revenge)

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
10.29.2016 , 08:00 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
All Sith's are a slave to their emotions!

>_>


Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
As much as I like the Sith Warrior, I think that was a flaw in how the character was written.

One of the problems with both playable Sith characters is that the player is provided too many opportunities to be insubordinate without there being consequences. While that works as fan service, it doesn't mesh well with the story.

Sith Apprentices should be living in terror of their masters, and with good reason, at least until they've reached a point where they've sufficiently mastered the dark side to challenge their masters. An acolyte fresh from Korriban should not be able to get away with snarking Baras or Zash, at least not without being force-lightning'd into submission.

Other Sith that aren't your immediate superiors? Sure... An apprentice to Baras or Zash also represents their master, and that Sith has to fear offending them. The snark would be more believable there.

I think both Baras and Zash should have had a scene where challenging their authority too forcefully or too early would result in a cutscene where the player character was zapped and overpowered, or a light saber duel (pre-level sync) where you were outleveled massively and guaranteed to get crushed. Rather than resulting in death however, you'd just be beaten and forced to grovel. (and quietly seethe and plot revenge)
I think it makes sense though, with the intended character of the SW. If SW is supposed to be most like Vader, could you imagine Palpatine forcing a young Vader to grovel? Or forcing Anakin to grovel?

In SW it made sense to me that he could get away with being snippy because he was going above and beyond the expectations of a new Sith apprentice all the freakin' time. If Baras was able to kick your face in because you got a little snippy, he might actually hurt you and then how are you going to accomplish the things that his lazy *** wants you to accomplish?

Baras, if you'll notice, hardly even cares. He has his plans for you and once you are through executing them, he will get rid of you. That's how he operates with everyone.

Or with Zash. Major spoilers ahead:
Spoiler
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
10.29.2016 , 10:35 AM | #47
Rolo had my thoughts on the matter. The Inquisitor and Warrior are just in the right spot to get away with it, if they're the type to be snarky.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Dzqn's Avatar


Dzqn
07.06.2017 , 07:58 AM | #48
My top 8 classes are:
1. Sith Inquisitor
2. Jedi Knight
3. Sith Warrior
4. Imperial Agent
5. Jedi Consular
6. Smuggler
7. Trooper
8. Bounty Hunter (the most boring story for me of all of the other classes).

CynderDark's Avatar


CynderDark
09.18.2020 , 10:49 AM | #49
1. Bounty Hunter - I've been a big Mandalorian fan since childhood
2. Trooper - I dig the voice of the male variant
3. Jedi Knight - Quintessentially Star Wars
4. Sith Inquisitor - Rags to riches the fun way
5. Smuggler - Southern Drawl
6. Sith Warrior - Predictable in hindsight
7. Jedi Consular - I like it but the story drags a bit
8. Imperial Agent - I like all the stories but something had to be last

Sappharan's Avatar


Sappharan
09.19.2020 , 10:47 AM | #50
Jedi Knight (10/10)
Sith Warrior (7/10 as Light Side)
Agent (6/10)
Trooper (5/10)
Consular (4/10)
Inquisitor (4/10)

I have not played the other two, and I have no desire to make a smuggler.