Other than the leveling process, Bioware hasn't really changed anything. Even the leveling process can still be bland at times even then. The truth is, Bioware hasn't really innovated anything, especially at its end-game. End-game within SW:TOR is at best a C-grade EQ/WoW clone, and end-game is further devolved by the poor combat system.

LEVELING IS A HOBSON'S CHOICE. You are presented with many dialogue options, but really, you have two: accept the quest or decline the quest. Rarely is there any attached baggage with your choice, and this makes most of the voice-acting for the non-class quests a waste.

I can't recall a SINGLE AREA other than leveling that Bioware has innovated upon. Leveling isn't even a large portion of an MMO since you only spend a small amount of time on it during your entire play through. Most of your time is spent at the end-game, and there's nothing new there.

Even the leveling process itself is its own bane since it is so linear. Its linearity makes a second play through, say, for an alt mind-numbingly painful. You can only run so many times by Darth Revan's cultist encampment before you begin loathing it.

A second play-through on games like WoW isn't as painful, mostly because the game is not as linear. There are multiple areas/methods in which to level in at any given level. That's wear SW:TOR fails.

SW:TOR really only has 4 classes as well. Empire/Republic are mirrors, and the ACs are really just glorified talent specs. The difference between a Sith Assassin and a Sith Sorcerer is the same difference between a Holy Paladin and a Retribution Paladin, and probably even less so.

SW:TOR's problem is that, after the leveling, it is just a much worse version of other MMOs, namely WoW, because it doesn't have as much polish. This causes veterans of those games to leave.

It seems Bioware put 5+ years of development into a 1-50 storyline that lasts for less than a week for the most dedicated gamer, and approximately 2 weeks for a normal gamer.

TL;DR: So, why would a player coming from much more polished games, such as WoW or even Rift, stick around after finishing leveling? Absolutely NOTHING is new in end-game content, only copied and worse at that.

The fact that every class quest chain has at last 2 or 3 distinct ways to play it makes it not have replay value?

I just did a quest on my Jedi Knight where I convinced a boss to help me kill another boss, I could have finished him off, but instead I got him to work with me.

Next time I might just gank him for the loot.

The fact that every class quest chain has at last 2 or 3 distinct ways to play it makes it not have replay value?

 

I just did a quest on my Jedi Knight where I convinced a boss to help me kill another boss, I could have finished him off, but instead I got him to work with me.

 

Next time I might just gank him for the loot.

2 or 3 distinct ways? Really?

Given that most of your leveling experience points come from shared quests, ones that are accessible to ALL classes, leveling is relatively the same route composed of the same quests for a given faction. The only real change in it is when you switch factions, and realistically, when making alts that's not preferred because you can't stay with your guild if you do that.

Most quests are NOT class-specific main storyline quests.

The fact that every class quest chain has at last 2 or 3 distinct ways to play it makes it not have replay value?

 

I just did a quest on my Jedi Knight where I convinced a boss to help me kill another boss, I could have finished him off, but instead I got him to work with me.

 

Next time I might just gank him for the loot.

Wow, those amazing options. Spare someone and never see them again, or kill them and never see them again.

OP's got a point, TOR has zero replay value since your choices don't actually change anything.

The fact that every class quest chain has at last 2 or 3 distinct ways to play it makes it not have replay value?

Really? Sheesh.

2 or 3 distinct ways? Really?

 

 

Given that most of your leveling experience points come from shared quests, ones that are accessible to ALL classes, leveling is relatively the same route composed of the same quests for a given faction. The only real change in it is when you switch factions, and realistically, when making alts that's not preferred because you can't stay with your guild if you do that.

 

Most quests are NOT class-specific main storyline quests.

Every time you select a dialogue option, the storyline progresses in that direction. You are dictating the story based on your answers, and if you go back and play another character and use different responses, the story will change. That, by definition, is replay value.

ROFL.

It's a video game. EA didn't kill your mother. Move on with your life.

Wow, those amazing options. Spare someone and never see them again, or kill them and never see them again.

 

OP's got a point, TOR has zero replay value since your choices don't actually change anything.

I dont think you realize, that they are probably thousands upon thousands of people that disagree with you. Probably shouldn't word your sentences as facts.

Thank you for giving your opinion. It changed the way I looked at the world and this game. Thank you again sir.

Why would you even read the OP if all you wanted to do was reply sardonically? Given the title, it should've been obvious I was criticizing SW:TOR.

Other than the leveling process, Bioware hasn't really changed anything. Even the leveling process can still be bland at times even then. The truth is, Bioware hasn't really innovated anything, especially at its end-game. End-game within SW:TOR is at best a C-grade EQ/WoW clone, and end-game is further devolved by the poor combat system.

I can't recall a SINGLE AREA other than leveling that Bioware has innovated upon. Leveling isn't even a large portion of an MMO since you only spend a small amount of time on it during your entire play through. Most of your time is spent at the end-game, and there's nothing new there.

 

Even the leveling process itself is its own bane since it is so linear. Its linearity makes a second play through, say, for an alt mind-numbingly painful. You can only run so many times by Darth Revan's cultist encampment before you begin loathing it.

 

A second play-through on games like WoW isn't as painful, mostly because the game is not as linear. There are multiple areas/methods in which to level in at any given level. That's wear SW:TOR fails.

 

SW:TOR's problem is that, after the leveling, it is just a much worse version of other MMOs, namely WoW, because it doesn't have as much polish. This causes veterans of those games to leave.

 

 

TL;DR: So, why would a player coming from much more polished games, such as WoW or even Rift stick around after finishing leveling?

They blew their innovation time budget on space combat. It's the only polished and original gameplay in ToR where they had to do any real effort to get it working with the Hero Engine. Had a man behind a desk not made a decision that space combat was a MUST HAVE we might of seen a better overall quality of the game. Features, basic features, like optimized AA or UI we can customize. The game overall would of been more polished.

The fact that every class quest chain has at last 2 or 3 distinct ways to play it makes it not have replay value?

 

I just did a quest on my Jedi Knight where I convinced a boss to help me kill another boss, I could have finished him off, but instead I got him to work with me.

 

Next time I might just gank him for the loot.

You are going to play through 200 more of hours of the same ole' stuff for an hour of new content? Be my guest.

Every time you select a dialogue option, the storyline progresses in that direction. You are dictating the story based on your answers, and if you go back and play another character and use different responses, the story will change. That, by definition, is replay value.

Ahh not so much lol, what you say might make a difference for the next 10 minutes of conversation but in the long run everything you say doesn't matter, with a few exceptions.

Every time you select a dialogue option, the storyline progresses in that direction. You are dictating the story based on your answers, and if you go back and play another character and use different responses, the story will change. That, by definition, is replay value.

So changing a sentence and sending you onto the next quest anyway is changing the story?

SW:TOR's problem is that, after the leveling, it is just a much worse version of other MMOs, namely WoW, because it doesn't have as much polish. This causes veterans of those games to leave.

TL;DR: So, why would a player coming from much more polished games, such as WoW or even Rift stick around after finishing leveling?

Don't forget you also have to fly to 3 different planets, run across the desert, then jump on taxi go through four loading zones just to finish the quest. Vanila WoW much.

My husband played a jedi consular, and rather than rat on the two lovers he took the crystal and when it came to making his lightsaber he just went through a mountain to reach the top and built his lightsaber. I played a jedi consular and like a jedi I pointed out the error of their ways. When it came to making my lightsaber I had to venture inside a cave to retrieve the same crystal my husband got for free, fight an angry boss for intruding on its territory, battle through several other mobs to get outside, and then climbed the mountain to make my lightsaber.

Two different storylines but for the same outcome, I had to work harder for mine. Yes, this game does have different content and lore depending on the path you chose.

ROFL.

 

It's a video game. EA didn't kill your mother. Move on with your life.

As always, there's always someone in the thread to make my life better. Thank you.

Every time you select a dialogue option, the storyline progresses in that direction. You are dictating the story based on your answers, and if you go back and play another character and use different responses, the story will change. That, by definition, is replay value.

No, the dialogue is a Hobson's choice 99 times out of 99.1 (avoiding cliche.)

You have multiple dialogue choices, but really, you only have 2: take the quest or leave it.

9 months later Xugos is still posting about how SWTOR isn't good enough to play. See the irony there anyone?

I'm gone ~Jan 20. Many people will be happy, I'm sure.

Don't forget you also have to fly to 3 different planets, run across the desert, then jump on taxi go through four loading zones just to finish the quest. Vanila WoW much.

Vanilla WoW was more bearable in that there were not as many aimless runs and that you could do 2-3 quests in a single run. Not true for SW:TOR in places like Tatooine.

You are going to play through 200 more of hours of the same ole' stuff for an hour of new content? Be my guest.

It's closer to 200 more hours for 6 minutes of "new content," (or just a slightly different cut scene.)

Other than the leveling process, Bioware hasn't really changed anything. Even the leveling process can still be bland at times even then. The truth is, Bioware hasn't really innovated anything, especially at its end-game. End-game within SW:TOR is at best a C-grade EQ/WoW clone, and end-game is further devolved by the poor combat system.

 

 

LEVELING IS A HOBSON'S CHOICE. You are presented with many dialogue options, but really, you have two: accept the quest or decline the quest. Rarely is there any attached baggage with your choice, and this makes most of the voice-acting for the non-class quests a waste.

 

 

I can't recall a SINGLE AREA other than leveling that Bioware has innovated upon. Leveling isn't even a large portion of an MMO since you only spend a small amount of time on it during your entire play through. Most of your time is spent at the end-game, and there's nothing new there.

 

Even the leveling process itself is its own bane since it is so linear. Its linearity makes a second play through, say, for an alt mind-numbingly painful. You can only run so many times by Darth Revan's cultist encampment before you begin loathing it.

 

A second play-through on games like WoW isn't as painful, mostly because the game is not as linear. There are multiple areas/methods in which to level in at any given level. That's wear SW:TOR fails.

 

SW:TOR's problem is that, after the leveling, it is just a much worse version of other MMOs, namely WoW, because it doesn't have as much polish. This causes veterans of those games to leave.

 

 

TL;DR: So, why would a player coming from much more polished games, such as WoW or even Rift, stick around after finishing leveling?

Don't forget that they want you to reroll the same class twice because the Advance classes are so different and they say people can level much fast u sing space bar. Thats their reasoning why there is no Advance Class change. And many will say will you can't play a pally and then respect to druid. Which is not the same logic. Its like playing a druid and being only able to pick between being a bear/cat and tree/moonkin.

No, the dialogue is a Hobson's choice 99 times out of 99.1 (avoiding cliche.)

 

You have multiple dialogue choices, but really, you only have 2: take the quest or leave it.

Most cases, probably true. Not true collectively though. I can faintly recall at least 2 quests in the 30's where my choices dictated the entire rest of the planet's questline, and the followup quests would have been different had I chosen otherwise.

Something you people are failing at (Not necessarily you Xugos): This is not WoW. This is not a race to the endgame. What you are looking at right now is 5 years of development into a 1-49 storyline. It's not about endgame raiding, or PvP. Those options are only in the game because the masses would commit genocide without them. You are all ruining it for yourselves by playing the game as if it was WoW. Pay attention to the storylines, get involved with your character as if it was you. This game is much more RP based than WoW. If you can't handle that, you need to leave.