This seems way to nitpicky. Its a Vet mode FP it doesn't matter, the (potential) 4th person did not lose out on anything. This isn't Solo ranked; there is more then 1 vet fp pop out there.

Just chill out and enjoy the smooth clear say "ggs" at the end and move on

This seems way to nitpicky. Its a Vet mode FP it doesn't matter, the (potential) 4th person did not lose out on anything. This isn't Solo ranked; there is more then 1 vet fp pop out there.

 

Just chill out and enjoy the smooth clear say "ggs" at the end and move on

Ye... that is a little bit short-sighted. The "smooth clear" just teaches new players like the level 15 shadow, "wait till you are max-level and you can clear stuff on your own. till then you can't do nothing. and you better quit the flashpoint, if you see no level 75 with you.". The shadow learned absolut nothing on this run. He didn't had to do damage, he was not taught the mechanics, because a level 75 rusher can clear everything alone. Even the level 75 player didn't learn anything in this run. His performance simply relys on being overpowered. Overpowered gear and overpowered companion.

Some people demand gear requirement for master flashpoints. I want it for veteran. If you go in via groupfinder, you are not allowed to have better gear than 272. If you have better gear, groupfinder forces you, to queue simultaneously for master mode. If you go in via groupfinder, you have to find a replacement and can't summon a companion, when they are not listed for a new player.

People just learn to rely on being overleveled, overgeared, and having overpowered companions with them. They can have it. In Solo-Mode. But not in group-content. That is better for the game, because it produces better players.

Kuat Drive Yards. Veteran Flashpoint. Of course.

 

A level 15 Shadow, a level 43 Consular Healer, a level 75 Consular DPS, and a fourth player. Our fourth player left after the third thrash group is killed. Without any words.

 

As our group leader, the Level 75 DPS decides that we don't need a new teammate and takes out his Level 50 Companion. „You have to kick me, because there is no way, i risk getting a worse teammate, than my companion. I'm here to get this flashpoint done, and my companion is superior.“.

 

Everytime i hear this, i just think,

 

„.... bla bla bla... i'm bad. i'm on a max level toon and i run the easiest of all group content all day and need the best ingame gear to do so and on top of that i need the best overpowered companion too, because otherwise i can't finish things. socializing is not a desired set of skill, other people only exist to pop groupfinder queue for me.... bla bla bla...“.

 

For me, these kind of people are auto-ignore. What do you think?

You should also take into account that theres some people that have limited time (like me) who can only do 1-3 FP(s) a day or hell, even in a week.

If that the word they said then they’re not being especially rude or anything. That guy just want to finish that (annoying) FP as fast as possible. 1 more thing, they just using a companion not kicking an actual player so no one actually losing out on anything. Can’t see whats the problem is unless of course they kick lowbies to use their companion, which is not the case for this one no?

That guy just want to finish that (annoying) FP as fast as possible.

Why is KDY annoying? Why is it more annoying than HS? Why do you run content, which annoys you? How much time do you think he gains, when he has his companion with him, instead of a player? He gain an extra minute? Or two?

Again... there is no valid reason for a level 75 to choose a companion over a player. He is just lazy and wants to do the easiest content alone being overpowerd.

Again... if you want that, you can have it in solo/story mission. There is no need for it in group content. Ban companions from groupfinder teams, if they are not queued for a replacement.

Why is KDY annoying? Why is it more annoying than HS? Why do you run content, which annoys you? How much time do you think he gains, when he has his companion with him, instead of a player? He gain an extra minute? Or two?

 

Again... there is no valid reason for a level 75 to choose a companion over a player. He is just lazy and wants to do the easiest content alone being overpowerd.

Again... if you want that, you can have it in solo/story mission. There is no need for it in group content. Ban companions from groupfinder teams, if they are not queued for a replacement.

Maybe you haven't done KDY with lowbies lately, but it's a huge time saver to have a companion there if someone drops out from the group.

I was recently in one of those as a level 20+ merc,couple of midbies and one lvl 75 carrier without a taunt. One guy was lagging most of the time, so he wasn't really contributing, and eventually he dc'd too. We were on last boss (the guy with big conal and huge damage from red circles and a bunch of knockbacks) when the lvl 75 pulled. We had 3 players and no companion. It took 20 minutes to kill the boss. I was running from kolto to kolto, only being able to use the abilities that I don't have to channel, and I don't know what the other 2 were doing because I was completely useless without being able to cast my biggest dps on the run. Sure, we one shot it and no-one died, but it took 20 minutes. That is not reasonable for a veteran FP boss fight. So yes, I would also pull my companion if someone drops a group instead of getting a lvl 15 into the group. If I want 20 min boss fights I'll go for Styrak.

It took 20 minutes to kill the boss.

And the solution is, to get a overpowered companion instead of getting gud? I think, this case is the prime example, why we should not allow people to get their companion out. People need to learn the lesson, that they are bad, and should not be allowed to queue for group content unprepared. When you have a level 75 with you, who can't do damage, and can't kill the boss on his own, he should know. It's sad, when a level 20 is the one, who does all the work in a flashpoint and most of the damage too. But getting a companion out, does not help at all. These players are still out there, but now they know, that their performance is not enough.

You should very well know, that "i get my companion out", is the starting point for people, who later say things like "master mode hammer station needs a level requirement of level 75 and a gear requirement of 306, fully augmentet".

And the solution is, to get a overpowered companion instead of getting gud? I think, this case is the prime example, why we should not allow people to get their companion out. People need to learn the lesson, that they are bad, and should not be allowed to queue for group content unprepared. When you have a level 75 with you, who can't do damage, and can't kill the boss on his own, he should know. It's sad, when a level 20 is the one, who does all the work in a flashpoint and most of the damage too. But getting a companion out, does not help at all. These players are still out there, but now they know, that their performance is not enough.

 

You should very well know, that "i get my companion out", is the starting point for people, who later say things like "master mode hammer station needs a level requirement of level 75 and a gear requirement of 306, fully augmentet".

It is not about getting good but getting it done. When i lsit a vet fp for whatever reason, e.g. farming tech frags, and someone drops out i will pull out a heal comp and after that it is way more relaxing especially on KDY where the endboss is insanely imbalanced. I can easily (unless on low lvl chars) solo those bosses, but why should i if i can have a companion... those are just vet fps, the reason you run them is to get them done not for the challenge...

And the solution is, to get a overpowered companion instead of getting gud? I think, this case is the prime example, why we should not allow people to get their companion out. People need to learn the lesson, that they are bad, and should not be allowed to queue for group content unprepared. When you have a level 75 with you, who can't do damage, and can't kill the boss on his own, he should know. It's sad, when a level 20 is the one, who does all the work in a flashpoint and most of the damage too. But getting a companion out, does not help at all. These players are still out there, but now they know, that their performance is not enough.

 

You should very well know, that "i get my companion out", is the starting point for people, who later say things like "master mode hammer station needs a level requirement of level 75 and a gear requirement of 306, fully augmentet".

Why should I spend my time waiting for people to "get good"? That question is not just for KDY btw, it covers all content. Where in ToS does it state that I am supposed to use my paid game time for that? If I've already spent 20 minutes clearing up to the last boss, and it's obvious the group won't kill it, I think it's fairly reasonable to use a companion to get it done and move on, than getting another lowbie and spend 20 minutes more wiping, just because lowbies don't have enough abilities or skill to survive it yet. It's KDY, not a progression raid.

You also conveniently ignored my first sentence: "Maybe you haven't done KDY with lowbies lately...". Because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Please go solo KDY with a bunch of lowbies and without a companion, because that seems to be what you are demanding other people to do, and soloing it is exactly what you would be doing with lowbies because they go from full HP to splat! when the boss even looks at them.

Just for the record, I couldn't care less on people's gear rating in most MM FPs. When 6.0 launched, we went to MM fps as lvl 70 and item rating 258 to get the gear and had no problems. So we agree on that one: gear doesn't matter.

Why is KDY annoying?

Are you serious?

Point me one person who likes endless trash pulls, because KDY it's all there is. It's like a fp version of KoTFE. The only nice thing there are bosses, but like DeannaVoyager said - they are unbalanced and sometimes Sith / Jedi can take more than 10 minutes for lowbies if there is no wipe. And for the person who holds aggro it's VERY annoying to just walking between the 2 kolto stations.

I was on your side, because i've always prefer to queue for another palyer if someone drops, but not for KDY - I want to just chain pull and finish it as fast as possible, and healer companion is the right call in that situation.

Are you serious?

Point me one person who likes endless trash pulls, because KDY it's all there is.

What's so bad about the trash pulls in KDY? Prison scenario you kick the trash down from second to first floor to pull the complete room and kill them in big aoe. I've never cleared two floors with trash mops faster, than in KDY.

What's so bad about the trash pulls in KDY? Prison scenario you kick the trash down from second to first floor to pull the complete room and kill them in big aoe. I've never cleared two floors with trash mops faster, than in KDY.

Trash pulls are bad when they're not inserted in moderation; that's because they're space and time fillers ONLY, to make it feel like you're accomplishing something killing the 100th mob of "Inrokini!!!" chiss with one hand on your keyboard and another on your RL sandwich, and it often just means that the devs are too devoid of ideas to make more of the flashpoint challenging enough to deserve a loot box. If the loot for killing them was worth something significant, speed grinders would just hop in and out of phases quick-killing as much trash as they could (which is exactly why they had to get rid of certain Ops trash or the XP that came with killing it, KP and Bestia come to mind)

When you think about how many separate combat mobs are in flashpoints and operations that are not bosses, only about 10% of enemies in all the content are worth fighting, that proportion is even LESS for KDY because only one fight gets you ANY reward worth working for. Quantity and not quality is the name of the game for the people who make these phases lately and some of us are getting sick of it.

Trash pulls are bad when they're not inserted in moderation; that's because they're space and time fillers ONLY, to make it feel like you're accomplishing something killing the 100th mob of "Inrokini!!!" chiss with one hand on your keyboard and another on your RL sandwich, and it often just means that the devs are too devoid of ideas to make more of the flashpoint challenging enough to deserve a loot box. If the loot for killing them was worth something significant, speed grinders would just hop in and out of phases quick-killing as much trash as they could (which is exactly why they had to get rid of certain Ops trash or the XP that came with killing it, KP and Bestia come to mind)

 

When you think about how many separate combat mobs are in flashpoints and operations that are not bosses, only about 10% of enemies in all the content are worth fighting, that proportion is even LESS for KDY because only one fight gets you ANY reward worth working for. Quantity and not quality is the name of the game for the people who make these phases lately and some of us are getting sick of it.

I never felt this way about trash mobs in KDY. Strange. I have more trouble to understand a flashpoint like Taral V. Where you can avoid absolutely every single trash group in the flashpoint, and on top of that you can skip almost all bosses as well. I really don't see the point in that.

those are just vet fps, the reason you run them is to get them done not for the challenge...

Basically this, its not about “get gud” but just time efficient like I said in my first post. Some people have limited time to play and like those people, I rather have companion than having lowbies replacement.

As our group leader, the Level 75 DPS decides that we don't need a new teammate and takes out his Level 50 Companion. „You have to kick me, because there is no way, i risk getting a worse teammate, than my companion. I'm here to get this flashpoint done, and my companion is superior.“.

Truth is that is very often the case.

I was doing MM Mando Raiders a few weeks ago, one of the rare times where I wasn't healing. The tank was clearly unexperienced, having difficulties to taunt back the first boss and bringing him to the beasts, not LOSing the Boarding Party to gather them up, letting the bonus boss on the loose chasing people.

We finally get to the last boss, he's completely ignoring the turrets so the second turret is annoying the hell out of the healer and obviously he's pushing the boss to the next corner: dead healer, dead party.

So before the second try, it feels like a good time to remember some basics about this fight: turrets are the priority, even the low DPS of a tank is enough to push him to next phase. Apparently that tank with less than 10% in flaspoint achievements thought he knew better and once again focuses on the boss, not even throwing an AOE taunt to take some pressure off the healer. That's once again a wipe.

So I am explaining that I am not going to waste my time, I just took the time earlier to explain that you had to leave the boss alone but he's obviously refusing to listen. And that if he doesn't want to listen, we are better off without him and with a companion. He's pissed off and leaves. I pull my companion, set her as tank, we go in and finish this with no hiccups (just a bit of micromanagement on my part to send the comp to grab agro of the turrets) and the healer's reaction: "a comp did better than him :o"

That's something that you seem to be missing, a companion is only good if correctly used. It's not just the case of setting your comp in a role and letting them do their thing (maybe as a healer with a few exceptions, e.g. for the first boss of Hammer Station if you have no one to cleanse the tank it's best to remove the cleanse from their rotation so that you can use the ability yourself). Same with the last boss of Mando Raiders, if I had just left her do her things chances are we would have wiped too.

A lvl 50 companion in the hands of someone who knows mechanics and how to use them is a powerful tool.

Dxun GF. I am on my Mando DPS.

One wipe on Red, but otherwise good until Mutant Trandoshan Squad.

There, the tanks begin arguing over strategy, one tank says he refuses to take both Titax and Hissy, they end up calling each other names as we wipe three times. One RDPS is kiting fire guy, one tank on Hissy and Titax, other on ice guy, is anyway the strategy everyone settles with, with Hissy being killed first.

On our 4th go, things look promising. The Hissy tank cannot keep threat against a VG DPS, but healers manage to keep him alive, and he seems to somewhat know what he is doing and takes Hissy to tracks as he approaches 15%.

Then, when Hissy is at 16 - a Sage healer pulls the Vanguard in attempt to deaggro him and Hissy leaps after him out of the tracks and gets torpored there. Group falls apart after that.

I had an interesting MM Legacy of the Rakata run the other day.

Started with 2 vets - me and the tank - and 2 new-to-LotR MM players - the other dps and the healer. It had also been a while since I did it in MM.

Things went alright until the Rancor boss. During this fight, the healer was having a hard time keeping up with the damage and cleansing the 'freeze' from the 'fire guy'.

As time went on, it got better - for example, I started to remember to use Hunker Down to prevent getting stuck in the fire - but after the second (or maybe 3rd) wipe, the healer quit.

So, since I had just recently jacked Z0-0M up to level 50, I took Z0-0M out and we finished the FP without much further problem. Z0-0M seems to very good at 'cleansing'.

(I had boosted Z0-0M so I could run some tests. The test confirmed to me that in most cases, Z0-0M isn't any better than any other companion. But it is situational to some extent.)

I had an interesting MM Legacy of the Rakata run the other day.

 

Started with 2 vets - me and the tank - and 2 new-to-LotR MM players - the other dps and the healer. It had also been a while since I did it in MM.

 

Things went alright until the Rancor boss. During this fight, the healer was having a hard time keeping up with the damage and cleansing the 'freeze' from the 'fire guy'.

As time went on, it got better - for example, I started to remember to use Hunker Down to prevent getting stuck in the fire - but after the second (or maybe 3rd) wipe, the healer quit.

So, since I had just recently jacked Z0-0M up to level 50, I took Z0-0M out and we finished the FP without much further problem. Z0-0M seems to very good at 'cleansing'.

(I had boosted Z0-0M so I could run some tests. The test confirmed to me that in most cases, Z0-0M isn't any better than any other companion. But it is situational to some extent.)

A friend of mine and myself had something similar this week.

LotR, MM. A fairly new player was part of the group. He only did this flashpoint once on mastermode. Another groupmember was only in 286 gear.

We kicked them both right at the start and finished the flashpoint with companions. After reading your story, i guess, we saved us from some wipes and unnecessary repair cost.

A friend of mine and myself had something similar this week.

 

LotR, MM. A fairly new player was part of the group. He only did this flashpoint once on mastermode. Another groupmember was only in 286 gear.

 

We kicked them both right at the start and finished the flashpoint with companions. After reading your story, i guess, we saved us from some wipes and unnecessary repair cost.

Aren't you the same dude that complained about people using a companion in a vet fp? MM rakata doesn't even have a any real mechanics or dps checks. People have to learn at some point, give them a chance at least.

MM flashpoints are not NiM raids don't kick someone just because they have only done it once or not in 306 gear. That wasn't at all remotely close to what the other guy was talking about, don't abuse vote kick.

Aren't you the same dude that complained about people using a companion in a vet fp? MM rakata doesn't even have a any real mechanics or dps checks. People have to learn at some point, give them a chance at least.

 

MM flashpoints are not NiM raids don't kick someone just because they have only done it once or not in 306 gear. That wasn't at all remotely close to what the other guy was talking about, don't abuse vote kick.

Agree completely. I didn't trust myself to write a civil response to the post being referred to here, so I didn't. It's really a sad state if MM FPs (that too the older ones) now involve these kind of group dynamics. Everybody has to do it the first time some time, the second time some time and so on. This is like asking for 3 years of experience in a job requisition for an entry level job; no one can qualify.

I don't know what you all want?! First i make a plea to trust new players, and don't use companions. It is not right. Then i play it your way, and don't give credits to new players, and use companions. Again, it is not right. Make your mind up. The option is in the game. I can kick players and i can use companion. If it is in the game, it is intended.

If you want to feel better. The tank didn't use dark ward at all. And the healer barely healed us through the first trash groups. Another "i don't use kolto probes" operative. Red alert. Kick all, proceed with companions. Two DPS, with two level 50 DPS companions. Ultra fast, ultra effective.

If you are in mastermode content with me, and i notice you play your role, class, specc fundamentally wrong, i will not take the time to explain it to you right then and there. We all have no time to waste. We must get things done. Fast and flawless. That is your motto here, no?! Or did i not get the memo and it changed since yesterday?

I don't know what you all want?! First i make a plea to trust new players, and don't use companions. It is not right. Then i play it your way, and don't give credits to new players, and use companions. Again, it is not right. Make your mind up. The option is in the game. I can kick players and i can use companion. If it is in the game, it is intended.

 

If you want to feel better. The tank didn't use dark ward at all. And the healer barely healed us through the first trash groups. Another "i don't use kolto probes" operative. Red alert. Kick all, proceed with companions. Two DPS, with two level 50 DPS companions. Ultra fast, ultra effective.

 

If you are in mastermode content with me, and i notice you play your role, class, specc fundamentally wrong, i will not take the time to explain it to you right then and there. We all have no time to waste. We must get things done. Fast and flawless. That is your motto here, no?! Or did i not get the memo and it changed since yesterday?

You are so dishonest holy ****. You kick them at the start bc you don't want them without giving them a chance, that was never the point the others made (and you know that lol). It was about not relisting and using a companion instead if someone leaves or gets kicked for a good reason. But you, holy **** that is just toxic to kick them at the start, but tbh no shocker when i look which guilds you recommend

I don't know what you all want?! First i make a plea to trust new players, and don't use companions. It is not right. Then i play it your way, and don't give credits to new players, and use companions. Again, it is not right. Make your mind up. The option is in the game. I can kick players and i can use companion. If it is in the game, it is intended.

 

If you want to feel better. The tank didn't use dark ward at all. And the healer barely healed us through the first trash groups. Another "i don't use kolto probes" operative. Red alert. Kick all, proceed with companions. Two DPS, with two level 50 DPS companions. Ultra fast, ultra effective.

 

If you are in mastermode content with me, and i notice you play your role, class, specc fundamentally wrong, i will not take the time to explain it to you right then and there. We all have no time to waste. We must get things done. Fast and flawless. That is your motto here, no?! Or did i not get the memo and it changed since yesterday?

There is a difference between someone quitting and using a companion and just kicking someone because they're new and using a companion.

Fortunately, no one kicked me when I told them "I'm new to MM, please take it slow".

In the contrast, the people I met were great and helped me feel safe to try MM more.

I don't kick people at the start because they are undergeared or say they are new. Because that was me at one point.

Aren't you the same dude that complained about people using a companion in a vet fp? MM rakata doesn't even have a any real mechanics or dps checks. People have to learn at some point, give them a chance at least.

 

 

MM flashpoints are not NiM raids don't kick someone just because they have only done it once or not in 306 gear. That wasn't at all remotely close to what the other guy was talking about, don't abuse vote kick.

Yep, same dude. I guess it's situational for him: When he wants to finish a fp instead of maybe just wasting time, it's okay to kick real players and use companions instead. But when someone else uses a companion (after someone leaves), it's not suddenly okay anymore. Maybe it only applies when you kick people without a reason first? /thinking