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EQN dead, Wildstar dying...swtor?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Off-Topic
EQN dead, Wildstar dying...swtor?

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
03.11.2016 , 09:07 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
PvP was a huge factor in SWTORs development cycle.
The limited weapon choice is a remnant of the Devs wanting Advanced Class to be visually represented (as was the original intent to have very specific armour sets before the roll out of adaptive armour sets.).
A lot of the balancing of abilities still seems to focus on the PvP pass rather than the PvE mechanics.

A big part of the trouble with MMOs is they feel the need to force one set of mechanics on every game style. The best solution to this quandary in my opinion would be to break away from that mould and have separate mechanics for the different elements of the game and develop a more modular structure.
Share the core art assets but develop separate engines and games that link back into a central social hub, branch out some mini-games to gaming on tablets/mobiles so that there is always a point of contact with the player base.
Yeah. This MMO during development wanted to be all things to all people. Unrealistic, IMO, no matter how much time, talent, and money you have. And history has certainly validated my opinion on this.

PvE and PvP design really do not mix well in MMOs IMO. Heck even in DAoC, they did not mix well, and players ALWAYS complained about class balance issues and flavor of the month syndrome. But that game was about PvE to get ready for and prosecute PvP between realms, so the collision of wants and needs between PvE and PvP were somewhat limited.

I think MMOs, in general, will evolve to smaller niche properties, and even then... people will rail on this because what they want is one game that meets all their needs. Niche MMOs can focus on being really well deployed for a smaller number of MMO player interests. It also means an end to the attempt to make any given MMO all things to all people (which has been a disaster in the industry over the last decade IMO).
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
03.11.2016 , 09:20 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Yeah. This MMO during development wanted to be all things to all people. Unrealistic, IMO, no matter how much time, talent, and money you have. And history has certainly validated my opinion on this.

PvE and PvP design really do not mix well in MMOs IMO. Heck even in DAoC, they did not mix well, and players ALWAYS complained about class balance issues and flavor of the month syndrome. But that game was about PvE to get ready for and prosecute PvP between realms, so the collision of wants and needs between PvE and PvP were somewhat limited.

I think MMOs, in general, will evolve to smaller niche properties, and even then... people will rail on this because what they want is one game that meets all their needs. Niche MMOs can focus on being really well deployed for a smaller number of MMO player interests. It also means an end to the attempt to make any given MMO all things to all people (which has been a disaster in the industry over the last decade IMO).
I think the division extend not just to the differences between PvE and PvP play but also to the different demands between group play and solo play.
A solo player here for the story rarely encounters any balanced challenge that allows them to grow in confidence with their skills before they enter into group play. Instead, after a rather flattering solo experience as you play through the class stories (still some of the best Star Wars game content out there, and Star Wars story telling in general) regaling in how you are the best of the best... you then suffer the ignominy of being stamped flat by trash mobs as you try to get through a Heroic... or whitewashed by a premade team on vent in a warzone.
No wonder new comers are less than eager to dip their figurative toes into the paddling pool of group play

nanamaryjj's Avatar


nanamaryjj
03.11.2016 , 09:23 PM | #23
Wildstar was one of them games i was so excited for, spent alot upfront to get CE edition, only to find the game itself was an even more cartoonish version of WoW.
i have top spec PC but the amount of crashes i had was what led me to quit, the game tried to cater for the western market but in turn ruined itself
as for EQN, i stopped at EQ2, where it felt they were forcing people to spend RL money to get ahead
SWTOR in comparison i can see going on for a good few many years, though I will admit BW need to get their act together, as it is right now, it feels like they are chucking out beta content and calling it a head start
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Warrgames's Avatar


Warrgames
03.11.2016 , 09:45 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by MadCuzBad View Post
In a game designed like this "Theme Park" you have to actually play to support it. This is not like SWG that just merely subscribing supports it because SWG was a sandbox of endless open world events that went on for ever. This game relies on group ques to happen and when they don't, people leave.

SWG has instanced PVP but also had a HUGE open world PVP that went on ever single day and night in a place called restuss. Players didn't need que pops to appear to PVP. They could go to restuss day and night and fight in small or large 100 vs 100 fights. It didn't matter.

This is a good game, but its design requires people to log in and que. When the que pops stop, people leave and leave in groves. 188 US servers that are no longer in existence will prove what I am saying is correct.

Truth be told, SWTOR is on life support at this point. Server to server ques should have been built into this game before launch. To late to fix and my understanding is that they built this game on a sub standard engine that can not even support it even if they wanted to.

Trouble times ahead, and I am not talking about the distant future, I am talking very shortly for this game.
SWG was the greatest game EVER. Sure... That why it shut down. Blame EA for it all you want but the truth is it SUCKED. They kept changing core design of the game and nerf any challenge into the ground. They turned large group content into solo content. Get over it SWG was horrible. Never once had more subs than SWTOR. **** pong on the Atari was superior game to SWG.

On Topic:
Didn't Wildstar focus more heavily on group content? Sorry stop following the game when I saw the horrible cartoon and Dev trying way to heard to apply to the younger player.
"I don't like Tatooine, but I do like saying Tatooine." Theron Shan
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"Nonsense repeated doesn't make it truth." Arcaan

Max_Killjoy's Avatar


Max_Killjoy
03.11.2016 , 09:49 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Yeah. This MMO during development wanted to be all things to all people. Unrealistic, IMO, no matter how much time, talent, and money you have. And history has certainly validated my opinion on this.

PvE and PvP design really do not mix well in MMOs IMO. Heck even in DAoC, they did not mix well, and players ALWAYS complained about class balance issues and flavor of the month syndrome. But that game was about PvE to get ready for and prosecute PvP between realms, so the collision of wants and needs between PvE and PvP were somewhat limited.

I think MMOs, in general, will evolve to smaller niche properties, and even then... people will rail on this because what they want is one game that meets all their needs. Niche MMOs can focus on being really well deployed for a smaller number of MMO player interests. It also means an end to the attempt to make any given MMO all things to all people (which has been a disaster in the industry over the last decade IMO).
Funny this would come up. I posted this recently. Almost the opposite of "niche".

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...15#post8825215

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
03.11.2016 , 10:26 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by lightSaberAddiCt View Post
I wouldnt say it was vaperware, I think they just lost their focus.
No, it was pretty much vaporware, as is Star Citizen.

And for the OP, 2 crappy games going belly up is not an industry trend, or whatever.

DerSchneider's Avatar


DerSchneider
03.11.2016 , 11:16 PM | #27
If devs will not stop to treat subscribers how they started to treat after KOTFE this game will die (and ofc be closed) in this year.
Consistent bugs, no replies for tickets, bots, desregard of top-tier content (ESPECIALLY ranked pvp) - in result online on my server is now twice lower than it was month ago.

And don't give me another warning for this - everything I wrote is complete truth.
Nightrain - top 3 Juggernaut season 7, 8, 9

My PVP streams: https://www.twitch.tv/n1ghtrain

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.11.2016 , 11:51 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
No, it was pretty much vaporware, as is Star Citizen.
Are you repeating something you've read on the internet?

Or did you actually play it before coming to this conclusion?

DieAlteHexe's Avatar


DieAlteHexe
03.12.2016 , 12:01 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Yeah... in general, the PvP segment of the MMO population now days are among the most needy and demanding. They no longer seem to be able to self-organize and go out and do PvP for PvP sake. Most are only in it for the rewards these days. And yes PvPers, this is a broad generalization and I am sure there are still some mature and well adjusted PvPers playing MMOs... but they seem to do so quietly and without the need to spam jello all over the forum floors at every perceived sleight by a studio. The vocal discontented give this facet of the genre a bad name IMO, which is too bad because I have known some really great PvP players and guilds in MMOs over the years.

I miss the old days when PvP was about realm and guild pride and putting it over on the other realms (a la DAoC). That was PvP worth doing.. and there were no rewards other then realm and guild pride of accomplishment.
Very, very well said.
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DenariusJay's Avatar


DenariusJay
03.12.2016 , 12:31 AM | #30
Things just ain't what they used to be. MMO's circa early 2000's were more about roleplaying and just being immersed into the world. It was a pleasure to walk around everywhere on foot, to take in the scenery. There was a sense of magic that is totally gone for the most part nowadays. The fun in gaming back then was just playing the game. Now people gripe if they have to click more then 4 buttons, or sit through a cut scene.

It's all changed now. Gaming mentality is more like "gotta login and get muh dailies/weeklys done and get dat' loot yo" the world itself and the players in it are just a giant inconvenience. TO be fair though, I play this game because its a wonderful solo game! I don't really group or hassle with doing OP/FP because I've turned into one of those old grumps that can't be bothered to sit through that type of content. The most I'll put up with as far as group content is WZ and even that gets on my nerves cause of Sorcs. -_-
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