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Incentivize tanking in PvE...?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Incentivize tanking in PvE...?

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
05.31.2019 , 08:39 PM | #1
Hi all,

It seems like there's a tank shortage in the current PVE meta. Is there a way to incentivize tanking in 6.0? I know it's a complicated issue, partially because of skanking, and partially because pure tanks are... utterly boring.

What do you think?
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Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
05.31.2019 , 08:45 PM | #2
I think you forgot the most important reason there is a shortage of tanks...

But to start, I don't think there is a tank shortage for guild runs. There is a tank shortage for PuGing because they are quite often treated like utter bantha dung.

WoW experimented with offering incentives to tanks and healers to use group finder. The results were mixed. It wasn't entirely unsuccessful, but that was also largely because the content was pretty easy so mistakes were easily forgiven.

With that said...I don't care what incentive they offer in this game. I will only tank (and heal, frankly) in guild runs.

Bluntly put: Tanking and healing PuGs is not worth the aggravation.

Dasty

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
05.31.2019 , 09:00 PM | #3
Jdast, I respect your opinion, but in the 3 guilds i'm in ( 2 pve, 1 pvp), there are only handful of tanks versus 20 dps, and 15 healer. I don't know if it is a design problem or if it is because healing/dps is easier than tanking.

I'm saying this as a guy that both dps and heals equally, though typically I heal more in raids and dps more in pvp. I'm on Star Forge. Anyway, what I'm saying is that lack of tanks is detriment to GUILDS. Though I could/should learn to tank more generic pve stuff, but the skill gap is huge. Nobody wants to be a mediocre tank, when they are an excellent dps.
-Beruhl, NiM Space Barbie and Solo Ranked Forum PvP (ง︡'-'︠)ง
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8 pugs and a grophet i do what i want major league memes can i borrow a stim?

Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
05.31.2019 , 09:28 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Jdast, I respect your opinion, but in the 3 guilds i'm in ( 2 pve, 1 pvp), there are only handful of tanks versus 20 dps, and 15 healer. I don't know if it is a design problem or if it is because healing/dps is easier than tanking.

I'm saying this as a guy that both dps and heals equally, though typically I heal more in raids and dps more in pvp. I'm on Star Forge. Anyway, what I'm saying is that lack of tanks is detriment to GUILDS. Though I could/should learn to tank more generic pve stuff, but the skill gap is huge. Nobody wants to be a mediocre tank, when they are an excellent dps.
This is a tough one. In this game, particularly with recent changes, solo-questing tank build has become arduous. The irony for WoW, was that tank leveling / questing for World Quest objectives was incredibly quick because you could gather up 1/2 a zone with no fear of dying.

I do think the new changes for 6.0 with respect to gearing will make tank leveling and soloing more palatable. That should help.

At the end of the day, though, I stand by my assertion that in my 15 years of playing MMORPGs there is a presumptive burden for group activity that tanks must bear -- specifically -- people assume they know the ins / outs of every fight. That's a tiresome burden.

Would you support offering tanks a bonus chance of gear in FP's / Ops? That's not a sarcastic question. Other games have done it with mixed results. I'm conflicted -- it depends on implementation. For the obvious reason that -- and this is what happened in WoW -- tanks geared up quickly and then stopped PuGing.

The tanks who were loyal to their guild through glass chewing periods, though, were going to remain regardless because they were in a good guild.

Dasty

DarthCasus's Avatar


DarthCasus
05.31.2019 , 10:18 PM | #5
Because tanks lack dps to keep the player engaged. If all we are are threat generators and meatbags, it's not interesting in harder content. If there isn't a distinct difference in stat priorities to the average player in their everyday content and the game doesn't play upon those, it because a stagnant experience. If most of the content is old and full of chubbed up enemies where tanks have uninspiring dps differences to add on to things, it becomes boring and tedious. If you're running through the last 2 expansions as a tank, you're a masochist. Not only is it tediously slower but it does nothing to make the experience interesting.

Before upping dps, which already is a pretty meh idea to begin with imo, I'd like to see how 6.0 plays out. So far, I'm a little worried that the whole new tactical stuff will only be for max level content because it does not address the issues for all the stuff prior (again) but who knows, maybe they'll mess around with the level sync, stat distribution and bolster stuff. Have to say though, tanking is vastly underwhelming and unrewarding compared to the other 2.
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DzastinBiberi's Avatar


DzastinBiberi
05.31.2019 , 10:24 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Hi all,

It seems like there's a tank shortage in the current PVE meta. Is there a way to incentivize tanking in 6.0? I know it's a complicated issue, partially because of skanking, and partially because pure tanks are... utterly boring.

What do you think?
Ever since the tank nerf, tanks are rare for M FP, Queen VM, even for Queen SM, so we usually go with DWT.

When I queue for M FP with my skank, pops are almost instant, but its a whole different story when I queue as DPS on DM server.

The reason I believe for this is, pure tanks dmg is almost non existant and ppl are just bored playing tanks.

MandFlurry's Avatar


MandFlurry
05.31.2019 , 10:25 PM | #7
Yeah, ans with us Tanks getting Nerfed in the last cpl patches ago, it gives my alts less incentives to use any Tanks, or want to use them in any way. Eric and Keith need to know that we need better damage.

I'm not talking about us tanks becoming full dps and tanking, but we need Real incentives to play. It was wrong for a couple of people here on the forums who i also like a lot, to tell the Devs that some of our damage should be nerfed, it was a bad thing.

In 6.0 our Tanks need to be able to use Tacticals for better damage, or something. i don't want to use 10's of millions in augments either, i end up hating the game, to where i get all my time wasted, when i want to have fun.

In PuG's some people will complain that our Tanks need more damage, without knout we are their Meat shields, and knowing anything about class roles.

When Tanks were introduced as Tanks, i think they should have gone beyond WW1 history, where Tanks could also put out more damage as well.

Tanks should be called "Meat shields" instead, it would be straight to the point. :/
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denavin's Avatar


denavin
05.31.2019 , 10:51 PM | #8
I have 4 tanks 2 Empire 2 Republic. I play them all the time. BUT I NEVER tank for a group unless I know everybody in the group. I hate tanking for Jerks. Too many PUG players think its a fun game to deliberately pull aggro off of the tank. I for one will let them have the mob since they want it so badly, then take it back off of their dead body. This will usually cause issues with the Jerk that keeps pulling the aggro. But life sucks when your a Jerk.

This may well be one reason why you don't see many tanks queuing up for Group Finder missions very often. We get tired of being treated like PooDoo...
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denavin's Avatar


denavin
05.31.2019 , 10:58 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by MandFlurry View Post
Tanks should be called "Meat shields" instead, it would be straight to the point. :/
Meat Shield (aka - Tank)

A Meat Shield is a can of meat placed before the mob. The meat in the can should be stinky and vile enough to entice the mob to try to get into the can to get at the soft chewy center. This will keep the mobs attention off of the more Squishy morsels in the group. The can should be of sufficient thickness as to keep the mob from too quickly gaining access to the Meat within and the soft chewy center of the tank.
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Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
06.01.2019 , 12:25 AM | #10
Tanks typically get **** on in a pug environment. If u dont know what u r doing on ossus wbs, everybody will hate u. It is another story that u should at least be asking questions what to do if u dunno fight....

Anyway, there r plenty other reasons. Gearing a tank the right way is a ****** of a thing to do. U have to buy 2 sets of gear, or get high endurance mods crafted aka twice as much work as a heal or dps set. This is stupid. Defence is crap, yet it is being forced onto every tank if they dont go out of their way.

I ended up saving the 252 dps/heal mods when i upgraded pieces to 258, that took me a long time though too. So tanking is really not simple to get into on the surface.

Truthfully, u can tank most pug content fine (like sm ops and mm fps) in stock tank gear. But yes, ur dmg is going to be pretty low if u dont have dps mods. Once u do, u actually do pretty respectable dmg, can even kill ppl in pvp as a true tank with dps mods.

At this point i started enjoying insta tank q pops, since i really dont mind tanking. But really, beyond insane incentives like giving out a CMT for a role in need reward upon completion, folks wont be convinced to tank due to the amount of effort it takes to get a decent tank set, which will serve no purpose whatsoever beyond group content (i shed a few tears when i see ppl suffering through dailies in tank spec lol).

Fix tank gearing first, then q times might be better for everyone.