if something negatively affects all specs of single class it should be deleted. i play tank sin only and the change we got is real hindrance imo.

 

Force Pull->Phantom Stride->combat.

this was perfect opener. once you used Pull, you could use stride to

close distance even while global CD was running because stride

was off GCD and then normally tank rest of the fight with high starting

threat.

 

Force Pull->1,5secs GCD->Phantom Stride->0,25secs GCD->combat

that 1,5secs that got thrown in there is

making my like living hell especially on bosses

like Raptus who have plenty of time to jump on

you before u can close the distance with your

Phantom Stride.

 

My friend suggested to stay at 10m and use

Force Speed but that is also hindered: Force Pull->1,5secs GCD->Force Speed->combat.

 

As for dps specs i dont play it but from what ive seen on this forum and on guildchat it messes up rotation and lowers overall dps-> not good either.

 

As i never noticed any instance when Phantom Stride overlapped with "other movement abilities" i really dont get why they had to "fix" it. Assassin tank is my main character and the only thing i noticed that should warrant some fix was bad platforming that caused a person to fall down when Phantom Stride was targeted on someone close to the edge of some platform - and even this is something that u stop noticing after few mins of playing. But something nobody noticed needed fixing more than that? And as a bonus all three class specs get nerfed? This needs to be undone immediately so Phantom Stride can be free of GCD like before.

Force Speed is usable off the gcd in case you haven't noticed. So you can open with Force Pull + Force Speed in the same GCD just like Sins have done before Phantom Stride. There's plenty of reason to be annoyed with this change, but honestly Sin tank's opener is really not one of them.

Yeah sure, why not delete phantom stride? We don't need that crap anyway, we can just waste one of our best dcd as a gap closer in the first second of the fight.

Seriously, why are you defending this change? Or should juggs use mad dash instead of force charge and PTs pop their hydraulics? Sins have this ability for a reason. Sure, we can adjust until this fix is unfixed again but that doesn't mean it should stay like this.

What kind of weird reasoning is this, you can waste force speed if you have problems pressing movement keys and need to quickly get to the boss and start using abilities. Generally, you don't need your defensive cooldowns anyway within the first few seconds of the fight so your entire argument doesn't make sense, most tank on Nightmare already use DPS adrenal at the start, cause there is simply no need to save all your defensives for Revan core.

It's not a great change, sure, but the impact is incredibly limited and I don't see who so many of you are making a big deal out of it, as far as I can read from your reasoning it's more due to lack of proper ability usage that is the cause of your aggro issues.

Force Pull->1,5secs GCD->Phantom Stride->0,25secs GCD->combat

that 1,5secs that got thrown in there is

making my like living hell especially on bosses

like Raptus who have plenty of time to jump on

you before u can close the distance with your

Phantom Stride.

The Raptus argument doesn't make any sense, even when you have everyone using rebounders to push it quicker into the next phase you will have AoE taunt back if you are required to use it. If you are not using rebounders you can simply start with phantom stride, no need to use force pull, and do double taunt to maintain aggro. Don't blame your flawed ability rotation on this change.

If you do the math it only nerfs infiltration/deception's DPS by about 80 DPS. So it's not a serious nerf but it is still a nerf to one of the already lowest-parsing classes.

But yeah, this really screws with shadow rotation, it makes it extremely clunky and annoying, and severely hamper's Shadow's/Sin's utility on the few fights where it's actually extremely useful. E.g. Brontes, where you can zip around through the Clock Phase, etc. This is because you now have an essentially 1.55 second delay where you're doing 0 DPS, and in that time frame that's all it takes for other DPS classes to do enough damage clean up, whereas deception/infiltration had a slight advantage in that role.

Also, it's not 1.5s + 0.25s because you should be using an 1866 Alacrity build which reduces your GCD to 1.3s.

That being said, I'm switching to serenity it looks like. This is a really annoying and unnecessary change that doesn't even fix the problems with shadow stride/holotraverse. I could understand it if it actually fixed the issues with shadow stride, or the uncoupled shadow stride from infiltration's rotation, but it doesn't, and they didn't.

The only reason we're not sure yet if it fixes getting launched into space (which it shouldn't, as that thing is usually caused by angles and not ability overlap AFAIK) is because the launch is so rare that you can't really rule it out just because it hasn't happened yet. I'm fully expecting to hear within the next week or two that someone gets launched though, and that this was all just to screw with our class XD

I was launched across the map earlier today in the new huttball so now it doesn't fix anything.

If you do the math it only nerfs infiltration/deception's DPS by about 80 DPS. So it's not a serious nerf but it is still a nerf to one of the already lowest-parsing classes.

How would one do the math to find that ? I'm curious. I tried earlier, but obviously failed since I found a bigger DPS lost

Force Speed is usable off the gcd in case you haven't noticed. So you can open with Force Pull + Force Speed in the same GCD just like Sins have done before Phantom Stride. There's plenty of reason to be annoyed with this change, but honestly Sin tank's opener is really not one of them.

youre correct, realized that some time after i wrote it - but since thats the case it destroys their already pretty vague argument that was suppose to justify the addition of the GCD: ".25 second Global Cooldown has been added to Shadow Stride to prevent an issue when this ability was overlapped with other movement abilities." -but like u said Force Speed is off GCD so when you use it, u can immediately use Phantom Stride and then u have Phantom Stride overlapping with another movement ability.

It's so annoying I'd rather not have the ability so I don't have to deal with this ********.

Hmm I have an idea - why don't we give phantom stride to sorcs ?:rak_01::rak_01::rak_01:

How would one do the math to find that ? I'm curious. I tried earlier, but obviously failed since I found a bigger DPS lost

On a 2.5 mil parse you'll use shadow stride 8 times and a total amount of additional downtime of 2 seconds. Shadow parses about 10.5K DPS, so when you calculate that out your total loss is about 80 DPS off your parse.

It's a larger loss if you're not good at the spec and your APM are low, or if you have larger lagtime with your ping, or if somewhere in there you lose a saber strike due to the extra downtime. Obviously RNG can be a rather annoying factor with this spec too. But the actual DPS loss is only like 80 DPS.

But yeah, this really screws with shadow rotation, it makes it extremely clunky and annoying, and severely hamper's Shadow's/Sin's utility on the few fights where it's actually extremely useful. E.g. Brontes, where you can zip around through the Clock Phase, etc. This is because you now have an essentially 1.55 second delay where you're doing 0 DPS, and in that time frame that's all it takes for other DPS classes to do enough damage clean up, whereas deception/infiltration had a slight advantage in that role.

I don't see how you're losing 1.55 seconds. Sure you have to wait until the GCD is over to use phantom stride, whereas before you could immediately use it. However you had to wait for the GCD ended before you could actually deal damage anyway if you did so, so really you're only delayed .25 seconds, where other melee dps (except operatives, but who actaully plays operative dps ) have to use their charge, which deal some token damage, but have 6 times the gcd duration.

0 DPS is worse than even having crap DPS on their charge.

Not if it's only with a sixth of the cooldown it isn't.

I was launched across the map earlier today in the new huttball so now it doesn't fix anything.

Oh great... maybe now they can just undo the fix that doesn't fix anything... maybe? Please?

I really don't want to have to re-learn my whole opener

Oh great... maybe now they can just undo the fix that doesn't fix anything... maybe? Please?

 

I really don't want to have to re-learn my whole opener

same goes for me

Not if it's only with a sixth of the cooldown it isn't.

I think you didn't understand. The problem is not so much the .25 gcd after you use PS. The problem is that PS now respect the GCD. So where we could do Discharge > PS during the GCD > Discharge, now we have to do Discharge then PS AFTER the GCD is finished THEN Discharge after the .25 delay. It adds a GCD + .25" in between the 2 Discharges.

Of course people are still getting launched because this "fix"/change had absolutely nothing to do with the problem. Using Shadow Stride while force speed was active has absolutely zero to do with the reason people are getting launched, which has everything to do with position and the relationship between two objects on the vertical axis.

You can trigger the launches with holotraverse by having another player on slightly higher ground jump and you holotraverse in mid-air, and it will fling you until you hit something. I've seen that used in some nefarious ways in fact. (You can't do it with shadow stride, interestingly enough.)

To be fair, BW never said it was to fix the flinging across the map. They just said :"an issue when this ability (Phantom Stride) was overlapped with other movement abilities".

For all we know, it could be a complitely different problem, maybe with the grappling in the new Huttball map. In any case, the change they made doesn't serve any purpose and just hinders sins more than anything so a revert to pre-5.9.3 would be the best solution.

I think you didn't understand. The problem is not so much the .25 gcd after you use PS. The problem is that PS now respect the GCD. So where we could do Discharge > PS during the GCD > Discharge, now we have to do Discharge then PS AFTER the GCD is finished THEN Discharge after the .25 delay. It adds a GCD + .25" in between the 2 Discharges.

And as I pointed out that's nonsense, before you could use Stride during the GCD sure, but the discharge would still require you to wait until the GCD was over. Now you wait for the GCD to be over to use stride (when you could use discharge before) and wait .25 seconds after stride. So you add .25 seconds between discharges, not a GCD+.25

And as I pointed out that's nonsense, before you could use Stride during the GCD sure, but the discharge would still require you to wait until the GCD was over. Now you wait for the GCD to be over to use stride (when you could use discharge before) and wait .25 seconds after stride. So you add .25 seconds between discharges, not a GCD+.25

You clearly don't play much sin or just haven't even tested it after the changes.

I don't play it much myself but I instantly noticed the issue after testing it. I also compared it to Holotraverse during Lethality rotation.

Despite the patch notes putting PS and Holo together the way they work now is completely different.

And as I pointed out that's nonsense, before you could use Stride during the GCD sure, but the discharge would still require you to wait until the GCD was over. Now you wait for the GCD to be over to use stride (when you could use discharge before) and wait .25 seconds after stride. So you add .25 seconds between discharges, not a GCD+.25

So for you being able to PS during the GCD or having to wait for the end of the GCD is not a big deal ? You don't play a sin, do you ?

So for you being able to PS during the GCD or having to wait for the end of the GCD is not a big deal ? You don't play a sin, do you ?

I'm not saying it's not a big deal, it still somewhat hampers mobility and reduces dps. But the GCD you have to wait until you can use Phantom Stride isn't a dps loss, only the .25 seconds GCD after Stride is.

I'm not saying it's not a big deal, it still somewhat hampers mobility and reduces dps. But the GCD you have to wait until you can use Phantom Stride isn't a dps loss, only the .25 seconds GCD after Stride is.

As I said, the problem is not so much that it's a DPS loss (80 DPS according to FlavivsAetivs), but that it makes Deception rotation very clunky not being able to PS in between 2 Discharges.

And since it doesn't fix any of the problems of PS there's no reason to not go back to pre-5.9.3 PS.

@ DEVS

You didn’t fix anything. We still fly because you can’t implement a teleport.

Why don’t you test this kind of stuff properly before it goes live?

Second, who tests this stuff for you wasn’t able to tell you what a nerf this is for Sin/Shadow?

ANOTHER nerf to this class for absolutely nothing.